Perchoutofwater Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I've seen a couple of mentions of Colston being among the top receivers. Are y'all not worried about his microfracture surgery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 supposedly, it was minor surgery to repain a small hole in his knee cap? And microfracture surgery has come a long way, yeah? I just know it wasn't too long ago that it was considered a career killer. I think I'll let someone else draft Colston this year, as he will probably go higher than I'd be comfortable with considering the injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I've seen a couple of mentions of Colston being among the top receivers. Are y'all not worried about his microfracture surgery? The question was who could emerge as the #1 FF WR this year, not who you would draft as the first WR off the board. Big difference. Colston still legitimately qualifies, although the risk wouldn't allow me to pick him until about WR10 or WR11 on my board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) Before I get started let me say that it is a good thing that I don't have man-love for Smitty OK, this is from earlier this year in another thread: Link does anyone know what WR was #1 in Yards/Game last year? Answer: Steve Smith, 101.5 does anyone know what WR has been top 3 in 3 of the last 4 years in Yards/Game? Answer: Steve Smith, with a 1st and two 3rds Oh and for those that keep saying he misses games are making it seem like they are due to injury...for those that have a short memory he missed the 1st 2 weeks last year due to a team suspension and then still went on to put up 1421 yards...just TEN less than Fitzgerald put up. Now to dig up some older info and then I will update it: This is from a post in august of 2007 that documents Smitty's production thru 2006 Link Joe Levit quote "... A top fantasy wide receiver needs to consistently put points in your pocket, and Smith has done that well in only one season..." I guess you are referring about his 2005 season as the "only one season." and if so those receiving numbers were: 103/1563/12 Excluding 2004 due to the broken bone in his 1st game! This is how his last 52(*includes the 2 games he was out last yr) games shape up Year.........Games.........Catches........Yards.........TDs. 2003..........12.................79............979............6 03Playoffs...4.................18.............404...........3 2005..........16................103..........1563..........12 05Playoffs....4.................36............466............5 2006..........14.................83...........1166...........8 Totals.........50...............319..........4578..........34 EXTRAPOLATED AVERAGES: ..................16................102...........1465..........11 so his avg the last 50 games is 102/1465/11 and his "only one time" season is 103/1563/12 even if you remove that year his averages are:102/1419/10 seems like more then just one season to me. so I have to add in 2007 and 2008 stats...also fwiw for those talking about the games that Smitty has missed do realize that only 2 of those 5 games missed the last 3 years are due to injury...2 were due to a team imposed suspension last year and 1 was due to an ejection in an ATL game when he got into it with DeAngelo Hall and from memory I think it was a pretty bogus ejection too....also for those with short memories remember that in 2006 Smitty lost Delhomme for weeks 14-16(10-123 with Chris F'n Weinke, ejected in week 16)...so dont lose sight of the fact that he has only missed 2 games due to injury the past 4 years... so here is the updated info: Year.........Games.........Catches........Yards.........TDs. 2007..........14.................87...........1002............7 07Playoffs...na................na............na.............na 2008..........14.................78..........1421..........6 08Playoffs....1.................2............43............1 Totals(07-08)29..............167.......2466..........14 EXTRAPOLATED AVERAGES for 16 games: ......................................92...........1360..........8 Combined stats 03-08(excluding 2004 due to broken leg) Year.........Games.........Catches........Yards.........TDs. 2003..........12.................79............979............6 03Playoffs...4.................18.............404...........3 2005..........16................103..........1563..........12 05Playoffs....4.................36............466............5 2006..........14.................83...........1166...........8 2007..........14.................87...........1002............7 07Playoffs...na................na............na.............na 2008..........14.................78..........1421..........6 08Playoffs....1.................2............43............1 Totals:.......79...............486..........7044..........48 EXTRAPOLATED AVERAGES: ..................................98.............1427.........10 EXTRAPOLATED AVERAGES WITHOUT 2005 ................59............94...........1360.........10 and yeah those averages include a couple of games with Chris Weinke and almost a full year of David Carr and Vinny Testaverde. I have said this before and I will say it again, you might as well call Smitty Rodney because he just doesn't get any respect...now I know that is a bit harsh because he does get respect but the ones that throw stones at Smitty are the ones that fail to give him the respect he deserves as a fantasy wr. Four year totals & extrapolated averages Name....................Games.........Catches........Yards.........T Ds. Randy Moss:actual.....64.............276..............4153..........46 Randy Moss: extrapolated...........69...............1038..........12(Pats years: 80 catches, 1186 yards, 16TDs) Fitz: actual:.............64.............398...............5741.........45 Fitz extrapolated:....................100.............1435..........11 AJ actual:...............54............341..............4261.........23 AJ extrapolated.....................101.............1263........7 Wayne actual:.......71.............390..............5538........34 Wayne extrapolated:................88..............1248........8 Smitty actual:........65..............389..............5661.......39 Smitty extrapolated:................96...............1393.......10 Fantasy Points scored, PPR(points scored 4yr average based on extrapolated numbers (.10 per yard, 1.0ppr, 6pts/td): Moss:244.8(Pats average 294.6/year) Fitz:309.5 AJ:269.3 Wayne:260.8 Smitty: 295.3 Average PPG(points/game) based on above yearly points scored Moss:15.3(18.4 with pats) Fitz: 19.3 AJ: 16.8 Wayne: 16.3 Smitty: 18.5 Games missed the past 4 years AJ: 10 Smitty: 5(2 due to suspension) Fitz: 4 Moss: 3 Wayne: 0 The TOP 3/category Catches/year: AJ 101 FItz 100 Smitty 96 Yards/year: Fitz: 1435 Smitty: 1393 AJ: 1263 TDs/year Moss: 12(16/year with Pats) Fitz: 11 Smitty: 10 Yearly Points Scored: Fitz 309.5 Smitty 295.3 AJ: 269.3 PPG Average: Fitz: 19.3 Smitty 18.5 Moss with Pats 18.4 AJ 16.8 So Smitty and Fitz are the only 2 WRs to rank in the top 3 of all those stats, including GAMES MISSED...take it all fwiw...the haters will continue to hate and the man-lovers will continue to love also fwiw, I didnt cherry pick these numbers....I didnt do one set and say oh that didnt work let me try another time frame...I picked the above WRs based on them being mentioned and picked the last 4 years as all of the above WRs played in each of the last 4 years...the Moss backers will point to Oak and say blah blah blah...to that I will say Chris Wienke, Vinny Testaverde and David Carr(poor AJ too). edit: I made an error in my calculations where I had smitty playing 16 games in 2006 so I had to adjust his averages Edited June 17, 2009 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 then you should make a thread stating who has Superbowl rings. this is a list of who people think the #1 WR is. right. silly me interjecting a comment like that. thank goodness you never do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I don't think Marvin will be getting many votes. Did I say he would? Quick question. Between Randy Moss and Marvin Harrison, who has more Super Bowl rings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepinmofo Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 The numbers dont lie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 so I have to add in 2007 and 2008 stats...also fwiw for those talking about the games that Smitty has missed do realize that only 2 of those 5 games missed the last 3 years are due to injury...2 were due to a team imposed suspension last year and 1 was due to an ejection in an ATL game when he got into it with DeAngelo Hall and from memory I think it was a pretty bogus ejection too If he played in the game and was ejected, it still counts as a game played. So unless he was suspended for the next game due to what happened, there must be another explanation for the missed game. I don't care what the reasons have been. He hasn't played a full NFL schedule for 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) If he played in the game and was ejected, it still counts as a game played. So unless he was suspended for the next game due to what happened, there must be another explanation for the missed game. I don't care what the reasons have been. He hasn't played a full NFL schedule for 3 years. i actually edited that out because i was wrong and he got tossed vs DAL.... but fwiw, he has missed a total of 5 games in the past 3 year...2 due to suspension so that is only 3 games missed due to injury...you made it a point to imply he misses games due to his size:: I also think that Steve Smith is usually drafted ahead of where he should go. That's why I never end up with him. He's definitely a WR1, and probably in the top 10, but he does seem to get drafted in the top 5 WR a lot in the drafts I'm in. That's too high for my taste for a smallish receiver who does miss games. He hasn't played a full NFL season in 3 years. That's not what I'm looking for from my #1 WR. That's just me. Part of the reason is that since he is undersized, he has to play so hard, and it takes a toll on his body. I'm not knocking the guy. I'd love to have him on the Colts. The fact that he misses games every year, doesn't score a lot of TD's, and plays with a very average QB drops him from my top 5 WR's. And that's usually where he's drafted. of the WRs listed above Wayne is the only one to not have missed a game over those 4 yrs... AJ missed 10 games...is he smallish? Moss missed 3 games...is he smallish? Fitz missed 4 games...is he smallish? over those 4 yrs with SIX less games played than Wayne Smitty has 1 less catch (advantage Wayne) 123 more recvng yards (advantage Smitty) 5 more recvng TDs(advantage Smitty) Edited June 17, 2009 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 also fwiw, I didnt cherry pick these numbers....I didnt do one set and say oh that didnt work let me try another time frame...I picked the above WRs based on them being mentioned and picked the last 4 years as all of the above WRs played in each of the last 4 years...the Moss backers will point to Oak and say blah blah blah...to that I will say Chris Wienke, Vinny Testaverde and David Carr(poor AJ too). Nice work, but that last thing about Chris Wienke/Kerry Collins/etc doesn't really apply since a few of these WRs really upgraded at QB. If anything, it leads us to wonder what kind of stats are yet to be posted by these QB/WR duos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Nice work, but that last thing about Chris Wienke/Kerry Collins/etc doesn't really apply since a few of these WRs really upgraded at QB. If anything, it leads us to wonder what kind of stats are yet to be posted by these QB/WR duos. I was nice enough to break Moss' stats out for the Pats(cassell was far from incompetent last year) Wayne has had Manning the entire time... Fitz has had Leinart and Warner Smitty Delhomme, Carr, Wienke, Vinny, Matt something another AJ Carr Schaub Rosenfels(not sure if I missed one) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) He may play all 16, but apparently the top tier QB doesn't make a diff. Smith actually had more yards last year with one less game under his belt. Basing that on just last year is pretty lame. Wayne had 500 more yards in 2007. Wayne had almost 200 more yards in 2006. Smith had 500 more yards in 2005 (but Wayne was a true #2 WR then). Wayne had 1,150 more yards in 2004 when Smith was injured. Over the last 3 years, Wayne has averaged 1322 yards and 8.3 TD's. In that same time, Smith has averaged 1196 yards and 7 TD's. The fact that Wayne plays all 16 games and has a better QB has a lot to do with that. And Wayne has to share the ball with Dallas Clark, Marvin Harrison, and Anthony Gonzalez. Edited June 17, 2009 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 i actually edited that out because i was wrong and he got tossed vs DAL.... so what was the game missed for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) Games missed the past 4 yearsAJ: 10 Smitty: 4 Fitz: 4 Moss: 3 Wayne: 0 Smith has missed 5 games in the past 3 years. Edited June 17, 2009 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) so what was the game missed for? trying to find out edit: looks like it was a shin injury Edited June 17, 2009 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 i actually edited that out because i was wrong and he got tossed vs DAL.... you made it a point to imply he misses games due to his size:: Um, he also missed 15 games in 2004. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Smith has missed 5 games in the past 3 years. i fixed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) over those 4 yrs with SIX less games played than Wayne Smitty has 1 less catch (advantage Wayne) 123 more recvng yards (advantage Smitty) 5 more recvng TDs(advantage Smitty) To be fair, Wayne was not the #1 WR in Indy 4 years ago. Even 3 years ago. It's only been the last 2 years he's been a true #1. If you wanna compare the last 3 years, things tilt in Waynes favor. More yards, catches, and TD's. Edited June 17, 2009 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Um, he also missed 15 games in 2004. Just sayin'. yeah with a broken leg due to a horse collar tackle...that hardly lends itself to him being injury prone like you are making it seem...or making it seem that since he is "smallish" he misses games and that just isnt true, IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 To be fair, Wayne was not the #1 WR in Indy 4 years ago. Even 3 years ago. It's only been the last 2 years he's been a true #1. If you wanna compare the last 3 years, things tilt in Waynes favor. More yards, catches, and TD's. you do the research and you can put them on whatever playing field you want too :oldrazz: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 if anyone sees any calculation errors just let me know and I will fix them as I did them with a calculator and the back of an envelope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) yeah with a broken leg due to a horse collar tackle...that hardly lends itself to him being injury prone like you are making it seem...or making it seem that since he is "smallish" he misses games and that just isnt true, IMO He's 5'9". That's small for an NFL WR. He's had injuries. I don't think I said he was injury prone. Just saying I downgrade Smith in my drafts because of his inablility to play a 16 game schedule. Wayne can. Fitz can. Moss can. Calvin Johnson can. FWIW I also downgrade Anquan Boldin for the same reason. Edited June 17, 2009 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 you do the research and you can put them on whatever playing field you want too :oldrazz: I just did. Last 3 years: Missed games: Wayne 0 Smith 5 Yards: Wayne 3965 Smith 3589 Catches: Wayne 272 Smith 248 TD Wayne 25 Smith 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 He's 5'9". That's small for an NFL WR. He's had injuries. I don't think I said he was injury prone. Just saying I downgrade Smith in my drafts because of his inablility to play a 16 game schedule. Wayne can. Fitz can. Moss can. Fitz has ONE 16 game season over the past 3 years, just sayin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) Fitz has ONE 16 game season over the past 3 years, just sayin But 3 of his 5 years in the league he has played a full 16 game schedule. (Including all 16 last year, a good sign of durability.) And he only missed one game in 2007. And he's got a better QB. Edited June 17, 2009 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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