Seahawks21 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Jackson top 15-20? Now that is laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I'll have to take a harder look as well. Gates had injury problems last year that really hurt him, which is why Jackson really became the #1 or #2 target during the year. Jackson finally proved why he was such a high pick and can be a true #1 in this league. However, Rivers is not afraid to spread the ball around regardless of who it is, so I do think there is a limit to how good a season Jackson can have only because of opportunities. Last year Jackson was really not a very reliable FF WR. Ended up having a decent season, but not a player you could just plug into your lineup and leave in. Seemed to have more average days than strong days. This year may change, but if Gates is healthy then Jackson again will be a bench filler. I think a healthy LT and Gates helps Jackson. With so much attention being paid to those two, it will open things up for him. Then again, I think they roll this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Jackson top 15-20? Now that is laughable. after the top 12 or so guys it turns into a crapshoot. Jackson has the ability, system, and team to be in that range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I don't agree with any of the above. I guess that is why we bet when we play fantasy football. I think he is a #2 at best, doesn't have the ability to run routes well enough or get enough separation, and I think his team has too many options. Top 25-30, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I don't agree with any of the above. I guess that is why we bet when we play fantasy football. I think he is a #2 at best, doesn't have the ability to run routes well enough or get enough separation, and I think his team has too many options. Top 25-30, maybe. Just a question... If he doesn't get enough seperation, how did he come up with all of those long touchdowns? And I don't think anyone said he's a WR1. We're talking about the 15-20th WR, which is going to be a WR2. If you're talking about only being a #2 in the NFL, then we'll see after this year. If he duplicates or surpasses last years numbers then you'll be forced to change your tune. The Chargers do have two great options in Tomlinson and Gates, and both of them will see plenty of attention from opposing D's, which in turn helps out Jackson. It's funny though, with Jackson are either hot or cold. there doesn't seem to be any middle ground with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 It's funny though, with Jackson are either hot or cold. there doesn't seem to be any middle ground with him. It was funny because I looked at the play-by-play to get what his 9 long bomb catches were last year and in almost every game, there were a bunch of " Rivers incomplete to V.Jackson deep left" or "deep middle". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0-16 Again Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 well thanks for the info and opinions.....I would like to keep this going by asking.....In a 14 team keeper league that you start 3 WR is V-Jack worth a 6th round pick? I know it shows me as a rookie but I have playing FF for 16 years but this is actually my first keeper league. Hope to contribute to many threads in the future and during the season while showing I know what I am talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 well thanks for the info and opinions.....I would like to keep this going by asking.....In a 14 team keeper league that you start 3 WR is V-Jack worth a 6th round pick? I know it shows me as a rookie but I have playing FF for 16 years but this is actually my first keeper league. Hope to contribute to many threads in the future and during the season while showing I know what I am talking about. First, take this to the advice forum as this is a team management question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0-16 Again Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 First, take this to the advice forum as this is a team management question. ooooppppsss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 It was funny because I looked at the play-by-play to get what his 9 long bomb catches were last year and in almost every game, there were a bunch of " Rivers incomplete to V.Jackson deep left" or "deep middle". I saw about 4 or 5 SD games last year and that's pretty accurate. If he could hold onto the ball more, he'd be a good fantasy #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 I saw about 4 or 5 SD games last year and that's pretty accurate. If he could hold onto the ball more, he'd be a good fantasy #2. If he would have caught 2-3 more bombs we'd be talking about him inside the top ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) If SD runs away with the AFC West this year, which looks to be a likely outcome, Jackson's opportunties will be diminished even more. If SD is in the driver's seat they figure to be taking less risks with LT and Gates receptions being conducive to moving the chains/running the clock/contolling the tempo of games. That leaves Jackson and Chambers fighting for the 3rd receiving option catches and less of a need to take a risk to heave the ball down the sideline - which is where Jackson makes his living. A healthy Chambers fits better in a conservative offense - note, a conservative offense doesn't necessarily lead to mediocre O numbers if the team is contolling ToP - with his ability to make tough catches and fend off DBs from turnovers. Edited June 20, 2009 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Just a question... If he doesn't get enough seperation, how did he come up with all of those long touchdowns? And I don't think anyone said he's a WR1. We're talking about the 15-20th WR, which is going to be a WR2. If you're talking about only being a #2 in the NFL, then we'll see after this year. If he duplicates or surpasses last years numbers then you'll be forced to change your tune. The Chargers do have two great options in Tomlinson and Gates, and both of them will see plenty of attention from opposing D's, which in turn helps out Jackson. It's funny though, with Jackson are either hot or cold. there doesn't seem to be any middle ground with him. In the NFL, separation means getting open without having to run deep routes. Anybody can get separation in six seconds, he just can't get any in the first 20 yards. So, basically, since the Bills have good targets with TO, Lee Evans & Jackson out of the backfield, I am to assume with your logic that this will allow Roscoe Parrish to put up good numbers? Hmmmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 note, a conservative offense doesn't necessarily lead to mediocre O numbers if the team is contolling ToP - with his ability to make tough catches and fend off DBs from turnovers. I dont think Norv Turner is going to be conservative. In the NFL, separation means getting open without having to run deep routes. Anybody can get separation in six seconds, he just can't get any in the first 20 yards. So, basically, since the Bills have good targets with TO, Lee Evans & Jackson out of the backfield, I am to assume with your logic that this will allow Roscoe Parrish to put up good numbers? Hmmmmmm. Do you have to come off as a prick with every one of your posts? Seperation is seperation, nowhere is there a rule stating that it has to be within the first 20 yards. And if you're comparing Roscoe Parrish to Vincent Jackson you're even slower than I thought. And what is this talk about Lee Evans? You do realize he's in the same mold as Jackson with his nine route or nothing approach, right? Screw off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) I dont think Norv Turner is going to be conservative. Do you have to come off as a prick with every one of your posts? Seperation is seperation, nowhere is there a rule stating that it has to be within the first 20 yards. And if you're comparing Roscoe Parrish to Vincent Jackson you're even slower than I thought. And what is this talk about Lee Evans? You do realize he's in the same mold as Jackson with his nine route or nothing approach, right? Screw off. When you hear a NFL coach or player refer to separation, they are not referring to the deep ball. Again, any WR in the NFL can get separation when they have six seconds to run down the field. So no, separation is not separation. Separation is a word that they started using a few years back when opposing receivers couldn't get away physical bump and run coverage, in New England's case in particular. It is all about getting off the ball, off the bump, into your route, and then creating space. It has zero to do with throwing the deep ball. Zero. The fact is, until Jackson gets to the 20 yard mark or so, he can't get open. This isn't new, it has been the knock on him since he came into the league. I never compared Parrish to Jackson. You said that the 4th receiving option should have opportunities for good stats if their first three options are really good. Right? Did I not understand correctly? What I am saying is that this particular theory does not hold water. Call me all the names you want to man. It isn't going to make your statements correct. Edited June 20, 2009 by Seahawks21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemess2 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 seahawks i just dont see how jackson is only top 25-30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 seahawks i just dont see how jackson is only top 25-30. Jackson really didn't do anything at all last year until week 14, when coincidentally Chambers was out. Chambers was limited the next three games and Jackson went off. If Chambers is healthy, he is still the #1 WR on this team, and Jackson is still mostly an afterthought with a big play thrown in every other week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ts Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Although I'm not really a Vjax proponent or detractor, I did happen to have him on one of my FF teams last year & I don't know that it's fair to say that he "didn't do anything at all last year until week 14" (since I remember things a bit differently, at least from a FF point of view) so I looked it up ... not Fitz / AJ / Calvin numbers to be sure, but certainly ok: - week #2: 6 / 73 / 0 - week #3: 3 / 74 / 0 - week #6: 5 / 134 / 1 - week #7: 4 / 42 / 1 - week #8: 4 / 60 / 1 - week #10: 5 / 83 / 0 - week #12: 2 / 57 / 1 ... not saying by any means that he's to be considered a "top 5 WR", but he did produce fantasy-start worthy numbers on a pretty regular basis last year ... even some of his low-catch / low-yards games were salvaged from a fantasy perspective by the scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Although I'm not really a Vjax proponent or detractor, I did happen to have him on one of my FF teams last year & I don't know that it's fair to say that he "didn't do anything at all last year until week 14" (since I remember things a bit differently, at least from a FF point of view) so I looked it up ... not Fitz / AJ / Calvin numbers to be sure, but certainly ok: - week #2: 6 / 73 / 0 - week #3: 3 / 74 / 0 - week #6: 5 / 134 / 1 - week #7: 4 / 42 / 1 - week #8: 4 / 60 / 1 - week #10: 5 / 83 / 0 - week #12: 2 / 57 / 1 ... not saying by any means that he's to be considered a "top 5 WR", but he did produce fantasy-start worthy numbers on a pretty regular basis last year ... even some of his low-catch / low-yards games were salvaged from a fantasy perspective by the scores. To be fair, I did throw in the word "really". He "really" didn't do anything until week 14. His numbers certainly aren't terrible, but I don't think they warrant top 15 consideration. I dunno. Not too bad. I could take that from a low-end #2 I guess. What happened to weeks 4,5,9,11, 13? Are you trying to say he was mostly an even weeks player? I think those numbers just add to the debate. You could really go either way with this guy, I just happen to lean more towards the low end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I never compared Parrish to Jackson. You said that the 4th receiving option should have opportunities for good stats if their first three options are really good. Right? Did I not understand correctly? What I am saying is that this particular theory does not hold water. Call me all the names you want to man. It isn't going to make your statements correct. Vincent Jackson isn't the 4th receiving option, sir. I'm actually somewhat curious as to who you think the third receiving option is, if not Jackson. I didin't say anything about a fourth option. In the passing game, I believe he's the second option, but that's another thing all together. And of course it won't make statements correct that I didn't say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I think a healthy LT and Gates helps Jackson. With so much attention being paid to those two, it will open things up for him. This is what I was referring to. It isn't like one single team has ever rolled coverage towards Jackson. Once. It has literally never happened. They already aren't paying any attention to him. I'm sorry, but more balls for Gates and LT (and Chambers) can only mean less balls for Jackson, not more. So with so much attention being paid to Evans and Owens, things should be wide open for Parrish, right? Even if you have Jackson as the Chargers #1 WR (which I do not), are you really going to have Jackson as a more important option than Gates or the RB position? No chance. Jackson is at best a 3rd option, and when Chambers is healthy, I believe Jackson is 4th. He had to step up last year due to injuries to all three of their main targets. I don't see that perfect storm aligning again this year, rolling or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 This is what I was referring to. It isn't like one single team has ever rolled coverage towards Jackson. Once. It has literally never happened. They already aren't paying any attention to him. I'm sorry, but more balls for Gates and LT (and Chambers) can only mean less balls for Jackson, not more. So with so much attention being paid to Evans and Owens, things should be wide open for Parrish, right? Even if you have Jackson as the Chargers #1 WR (which I do not), are you really going to have Jackson as a more important option than Gates or the RB position? No chance. Jackson is at best a 3rd option, and when Chambers is healthy, I believe Jackson is 4th. He had to step up last year due to injuries to all three of their main targets. I don't see that perfect storm aligning again this year, rolling or not. Gates and Tomlinson equal two players, with Jackson being at worst the third option. You said fourth option. I really don't care to get into any pissing match with you because I just don't care about or respect anything you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Jackson really didn't do anything at all last year until week 14, when coincidentally Chambers was out. Chambers was limited the next three games and Jackson went off. If Chambers is healthy, he is still the #1 WR on this team, and Jackson is still mostly an afterthought with a big play thrown in every other week. Sorry dude. But VJ is the #1 WR on this team. And he is not an afterthought. You're way off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 In the passing game, a healthy Gates is clearly the #1 option with Jackson the #2. However, Gates was not healthy at all last year and he will most likely continue to have health issues. LT is not the #1 option anymore. Jackson is a decent #2 WR with upside in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Jackson is a decent #2 WR with upside in my mind. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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