i_am_the_swammi Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Vick knew exactly what he was doing for an extended period of time, and got enjoyment from the intentional torture/ brutal deaths of dogs as well as knowingly using stolen family pets as training tools for the fighting dogs. Goes to a bit different mindset and level, don't you think? Hammer meets nail...spot on. Moreover, the only reason he is apologetic is due the fact he was caught. I would venture a guess that had the authorities never found out about their ring, it would still exist today with Vick as the ringleader. In regard to whether he should get another chance....yes, I think Goddell should reinstate him....but I would be shocked if a team signed him. Vic happens to play the most popular sport in America, a sport that is in the spotlight 6 months a year. No team wants the negative publicity that would be associated with signing Vick. Think of it this way....rather than a QB, if Vick had been a teacher, would he get his job back? How about an appointed government official (i.e Governor's right hand man)? How about a counselor? Or a spokesperson for a major product line? Of course not. Professions in the public spotlight, or ones that affect our youth, are held in much higher regard. While he should be allowed to seek employment, it is highly doubtful any ethical company will offer it to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Hammer meets nail...spot on. Moreover, the only reason he is apologetic is due the fact he was caught. I would venture a guess that had the authorities never found out about their ring, it would still exist today with Vick as the ringleader. In regard to whether he should get another chance....yes, I think Goddell should reinstate him....but I would be shocked if a team signed him. Vic happens to play the most popular sport in America, a sport that is in the spotlight 6 months a year. No team wants the negative publicity that would be associated with signing Vick. Think of it this way....rather than a QB, if Vick had been a teacher, would he get his job back? How about an appointed government official (i.e Governor's right hand man)? How about a counselor? Or a spokesperson for a major product line? Of course not. Professions in the public spotlight, or ones that affect our youth, are held in much higher regard. While he should be allowed to seek employment, it is highly doubtful any ethical company will offer it to him. So he'll be a Dallas Cowboy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Hammer meets nail...spot on. Moreover, the only reason he is apologetic is due the fact he was caught. I would venture a guess that had the authorities never found out about their ring, it would still exist today with Vick as the ringleader. In regard to whether he should get another chance....yes, I think Goddell should reinstate him....but I would be shocked if a team signed him. Vic happens to play the most popular sport in America, a sport that is in the spotlight 6 months a year. No team wants the negative publicity that would be associated with signing Vick. Think of it this way....rather than a QB, if Vick had been a teacher, would he get his job back? How about an appointed government official (i.e Governor's right hand man)? How about a counselor? Or a spokesperson for a major product line? Of course not. Professions in the public spotlight, or ones that affect our youth, are held in much higher regard. While he should be allowed to seek employment, it is highly doubtful any ethical company will offer it to him. Gotta agree with all bolded there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 In this economic climate, the fact that Vick will increase tourism (think "media") for eight games may not be lost on some communities...including those having a harder time filling their stadiums with fans. So, before people start making statements about this or that, think about what teams could possibly maybe NEED the revenue created by a lightening rod of a player...and then start crossing those teams off. Then, maybe add back a couple of teams that I'd say are "special situations" (due to other factors, like team owner, GM/executive strength, veteran and/or coaching leadership). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Can you provide a link to where Vick said he developed an enjoyment for torturing dogs? This Ann Coulter speak isn't any good without proof. The torture may not have been an explicit source of enjoyment, but it was part of the overall activity that he apparently did enjoy. I'm sure Tom Brady doesn't enjoy being sacked, but he seems to enjoy being a QB. Sometimes you accept the unpleasant tasks required to enjoy the overall job. Or was Vick participating in the dog fighting operations solely for the investment opportunities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Yeah, I'M the dumb ass. I would not go as far as calling you a dumb ass but I am a bit surprised that people think Vick should be reinstated. People say he DESERVES a second chance. Why? He knew what he was doing and he knew that it was wrong. He is only saying what he is saying now because he got caught. Seahawks saying he has come a long way is a joke. This guy is a POS. He can still try to make a living but it should be cleaning toilets at a major airport - that is all he deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Hammer meets nail...spot on. Moreover, the only reason he is apologetic is due the fact he was caught. I would venture a guess that had the authorities never found out about their ring, it would still exist today with Vick as the ringleader. In regard to whether he should get another chance....yes, I think Goddell should reinstate him....but I would be shocked if a team signed him. Vic happens to play the most popular sport in America, a sport that is in the spotlight 6 months a year. No team wants the negative publicity that would be associated with signing Vick. Think of it this way....rather than a QB, if Vick had been a teacher, would he get his job back? How about an appointed government official (i.e Governor's right hand man)? How about a counselor? Or a spokesperson for a major product line? Of course not. Professions in the public spotlight, or ones that affect our youth, are held in much higher regard. While he should be allowed to seek employment, it is highly doubtful any ethical company will offer it to him. I think it would be a different conversation if he was someone that could realistically be seen as a franchise QB who could lead a team to a Super Bowl. Vick was in an offense tailor-made to hide his shortcomings as a passer and was still very hit or miss. Even before his legal trouble, he did not carry himself as a leader, strutting around in his 'do-rag and flipping off the fans. I don't think most teams would want someone like that leading their offense even before the dogfighting came to light. Let's say this was Rivers or Cutler just coming out of prison, I believe there would be teams talking to their PR guys about ways to package him to the city, write apology speeches, do appearances at local SPCAs, etc. Bottom line is that owners, coaches and fans want wins and championships, period. The owners know that the fans will show up if their team is winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Think of it this way....rather than a QB, if Vick had been a teacher, would he get his job back? How about an appointed government official (i.e Governor's right hand man)? How about a counselor? Or a spokesperson for a major product line? Of course not. Professions in the public spotlight, or ones that affect our youth, are held in much higher regard. While he should be allowed to seek employment, it is highly doubtful any ethical company will offer it to him. but that's simply not the standard in the NFL. or, if it is, they just invented that standard for vick. jamal lewis is guilty on federal drug conspiracy charges and he got a slap on the wrist, was it 2 games? I dare say a federally convicted coke dealer would not get his job as a teacher back. ray lewis was directly involved in a murder, and pled guilty to obstructing justice. how many dozens of NFL players have domestic violence stuff on their record? how many hundreds have DUIs? playing football is not, IMO, some sort of position of public trust. it is like most jobs in the sense that, if you've paid your debt to society and you are still in demand, there is no good reason you should be prevented from doing what you are good at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Per ESPN, Vick has been conditionally reinstated to the NFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) Or was Vick participating in the dog fighting operations solely for the investment opportunities? Probably. I don't think many animal fighters are in it for the glory. Edited July 27, 2009 by WaterMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I hope he's buried in Virginia so I can spit on his grave...eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 but that's simply not the standard in the NFL. or, if it is, they just invented that standard for vick. jamal lewis is guilty on federal drug conspiracy charges and he got a slap on the wrist, was it 2 games? I dare say a federally convicted coke dealer would not get his job as a teacher back. ray lewis was directly involved in a murder, and pled guilty to obstructing justice. how many dozens of NFL players have domestic violence stuff on their record? how many hundreds have DUIs? playing football is not, IMO, some sort of position of public trust. it is like most jobs in the sense that, if you've paid your debt to society and you are still in demand, there is no good reason you should be prevented from doing what you are good at. Very solid points. However, I tend to think the crimes you mention, as odd as it sounds, are more socially acceptable in terms of the common man....DUI, drug use. Perhaps its wrong, but animal cruelty is held in high regard....probably because so many in the country likely has (or has had) a pet, and couldn't imagine someone hurting it. Drugs? DUI? Domestic Violence? Perhaps we as a country have become desensitized to it because (1) many have done it and (2) we see it and hear about it in our everyday lives. Somebody selling pot versus a guy killing dogs for profit? Based on society today, i don't think I have to tell you which one draws more ire. But since you brought up other crimes, I'll do the same: suppose a player pleaded guilty and served time for raping/abusing a child. Do you think an NFL team would sign him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 He's just been conditionally reinstated, can participate in all team activities except games, and Goodell will consider full reinstatement beginning in week 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Vick knew exactly what he was doing for an extended period of time, and got enjoyment from the intentional torture/ brutal deaths of dogs as well as knowingly using stolen family pets as training tools for the fighting dogs. Goes to a bit different mindset and level, don't you think? Bingo. I'd pay good money to set fire to him, personally. Can you provide a link to where Vick said he developed an enjoyment for torturing dogs? This Ann Coulter speak isn't any good without proof. Hammer meets nail...spot on. Moreover, the only reason he is apologetic is due the fact he was caught. I would venture a guess that had the authorities never found out about their ring, it would still exist today with Vick as the ringleader. Bingo again. Vick's "contrition" has to do with his checkbook balance, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Very solid points. However, I tend to think the crimes you mention, as odd as it sounds, are more socially acceptable in terms of the common man....DUI, drug use. Perhaps its wrong, but animal cruelty is held in high regard....probably because so many in the country likely has (or has had) a pet, and couldn't imagine someone hurting it. Drugs? DUI? Domestic Violence? Perhaps we as a country have become desensitized to it because (1) many have done it and (2) we see it and hear about it in our everyday lives. Somebody selling pot versus a guy killing dogs for profit? Based on society today, i don't think I have to tell you which one draws more ire. But since you brought up other crimes, I'll do the same: suppose a player pleaded guilty and served time for raping/abusing a child. Do you think an NFL team would sign him? if dogfighting is some kind of specially heinous crime, I'd say that's an illogical, knee-jerk reaction. we're talking about something that was socially acceptable everywhere on the planet 100 years ago, and something that's still socially acceptable in most of the world. don't get me wrong, I'm glad we made it illegal, but equating it to child rape? I am hoping someone convicted of child rape would be in jail long enough that their return to the NFL would be a moot point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I say re-instate him but any team that accepts his baggage better know what they're getting into. I wouldn't have the stomach for him in a Vikings uniform, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Is one of the conditions he can't play QB because he sucks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 the NFL would be justified in not reinstating him. it's their sandbox and his reinstatement could impact it's success. if it were to reinstate him, a team would definitely face backlash. on top of that.... who sees him as a starter? so, you sign yourself a backup that would require reshaping an offense should the starter get injured...... mr vick say hello to washing cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 I say re-instate him but any team that accepts his baggage better know what they're getting into. I wouldn't have the stomach for him in a Vikings uniform, imo. Randy Moss had too much baggage before the Patriots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I say re-instate him but any team that accepts his baggage better know what they're getting into. I wouldn't have the stomach for him in a Vikings uniform, imo. +1 please vikes stay away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 if dogfighting is some kind of specially heinous crime, I'd say that's an illogical, knee-jerk reaction. we're talking about something that was socially acceptable everywhere on the planet 100 years ago, and something that's still socially acceptable in most of the world. don't get me wrong, I'm glad we made it illegal, but equating it to child rape? I am hoping someone convicted of child rape would be in jail long enough that their return to the NFL would be a moot point. I'd say the general public feeling on pets is going far away from fighting and considering pets more like family with every passing year. However, on the "which level of hell will I spend eternity' scale, pedophiles have got to rank deeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 if dogfighting is some kind of specially heinous crime, I'd say that's an illogical, knee-jerk reaction. we're talking about something that was socially acceptable everywhere on the planet 100 years ago, and something that's still socially acceptable in most of the world. Not so fast. If its so illogical and knee-jerk, then why the public disgust over this crime versus the others that NFL players have committed? the reason is that we have organizations that illicit millions in donations (SPCA, PETA) each and every year to help animals....millions of people support these causes. Thus, those that destroy animals for their own enjoyment are viewed quite harshly. don't get me wrong, I'm glad we made it illegal, but equating it to child rape? I am hoping someone convicted of child rape would be in jail long enough that their return to the NFL would be a moot point. Cmon bro...you know the comparison I was making was over the outcry to such crimes versus the crime itself. You made the initial comparison to DUI/domestic violence/murder. The point at hand is the public perception of the crime committed, and whether an NFL team would risk the negative PR in exchange for a better opportunity to win. The point I was trying to make was that, with certain crimes that are deemed "inhumane" (crimes against animals, children, ones that goes against societal norms), a forgiving public will be much more difficult to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Not so fast. If its so illogical and knee-jerk, then why the public disgust over this crime versus the others that NFL players have committed? the reason is that we have organizations that illicit millions in donations (SPCA, PETA) each and every year to help animals....millions of people support these causes. Thus, those that destroy animals for their own enjoyment are viewed quite harshly. Cmon bro...you know the comparison I was making was over the outcry to such crimes versus the crime itself. You made the initial comparison to DUI/domestic violence/murder. The point at hand is the public perception of the crime committed, and whether an NFL team would risk the negative PR in exchange for a better opportunity to win. The point I was trying to make was that, with certain crimes that are deemed "inhumane" (crimes against animals, children, ones that goes against societal norms), a forgiving public will be much more difficult to achieve. Don't forget, this is America and by default, we are a very forgiving nation. There will be outcry on the outset and probably some demonstrations and boycotts against the team that signs him, but it will all fade away by next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Don't forget, this is America and by default, we are a very forgiving nation. There will be outcry on the outset and probably some demonstrations and boycotts against the team that signs him, but it will all fade away by next season. I agree. If he signs with a team ... and if he plays reasonably well (see Tony Mandarich with the Colts) ... and if he keeps his nose clean ... the team that signs him will be given (pretty much) a clean pass after this upcoming season is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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