Pack Making Excuses?

[piratesownninjas]

The only way I'd cheer for Vikes or Bears is if Favre were there....otherwise, no frigging way. ;-) LOL

 

We already have one turncoat in our family that cheers for the Purple of the North.

 

As per comprehension, stand up, you're cutting your air supply. One handed typing isn't your strong suit is it?

The bolded part excludes you from being a packers fan.

[The Wolf]

2. The Wolf/Holmgren/Favre era produced a Super Bowl victory.

 

 

[Pope Flick]

[Randall]

= TT

 

 

You do know don't you if the team sold(impossible but let me continue) and moved to another city they couldn't get a moving company to do it.

 

It would make a good hidden camera episode though.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

 

Ed Hoyle = fisherman of the year. Hook, line and sinker!

Edited August 12, 2009 by HowboutthemCowboys

[i_am_the_swammi]

I don't get it....should I move Robert Ferguson back up my cheat sheet or not?

[Chavez]

You sound like "Anyone who hates TT/McCheesy is Dumb" material...just because someone doesn't think like you. Maybe that's why you jump on anyone who doesn't like TT. You are secretly his "love child"?

It isn't that there aren't good reasons to be skeptical of McCarthy and/or Thompson. It's more that anyone who comes up with scandalous, hurtful names like "McCheesy" is dumb.

[Chavez]

*solid post by pon*

...and I bet not one of the facts listed here penetrates numbnut's tinfoil hat.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

I don't get it....should I move Robert Ferguson back up my cheat sheet or not?

only in BLNY.

[Ed Hoyle]

only in BLNY.

 

 

I'd try to move Ferguson back up as well as Bill Schroeder.

[Chavez]

Once again, you fail to see a different point of view and trash anyone who disagrees with TT and McCarthy.

 

You really missed the point. I can think of a pretty good attack on Thompson and McCarthy, one with real merit. It would be nice if you could.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Chavez

[Ed Hoyle]

It isn't that there aren't good reasons to be skeptical of McCarthy and/or Thompson. It's more that anyone who comes up with scandalous, hurtful names like "McCheesy" is dumb.

 

 

Okay, the McCheesy thing was dumb. I'll admit that.

 

But, why would they offer $25 Mill to stay away? Why wouldn't they just release him then? They must have been a bit scared about his ability to play if they didn't want to face him?

 

Brett SHOULD NOT have retired in the first place. Done. But, why would a guy start to waiver each year since TT got there? If he's a prima-donna, then fine. But for many years Favre was a standup guy who did a lot for the community. I know people in GB that know Winters and others. They say it is well-known that TT let Brett know who was boss and that he wasn't "HIS" QB. Now, do we have any documentation of that? No. So, it could be just rumor. You can't avoid the fact that he didn't start the retire-unretire song and dance until TT was there.

 

SO, they should have moved on. But, if he wanted to come back and some players thought it would be good, then why not? An open competition would have settled it once and for all. Yet, they were afraid if Aaron lost or had to sit he'd leave.

 

Either way, let's just drop this no win discussion.

 

If TT and McCarthy have years of success, more power to them and I'll apologize to anyone on the board.

If not, well, that will speak louder and make more sense than anything I can post.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Ed Hoyle

[Ed Hoyle]

You really missed the point. I can think of a pretty good attack on Thompson and McCarthy, one with real merit. It would be nice if you could.

 

....how can I go back to the US if I'm here?

 

 

I was out of bounds with the Home Country comment. No need for a hasty emotional jab like that.

Not needed here. I deleted the original post.

[The Wolf]

I was out of bounds with the Home Country comment. No need for a hasty emotional jab like that.

Not needed here. I deleted the original post.

 

Seems like you've been out of bounds with several of your comments / jabs aimed at Huddlers. Stick to your points and your opinions and leave the third-grade name calling elsewhere. Got it?

[Ed Hoyle]

Seems like you've been out of bounds with several of your comments / jabs aimed at Huddlers. Stick to your points and your opinions and leave the third-grade name calling elsewhere. Got it?

 

 

Got it.

 

[Chavez]

But, why would they offer $25 Mill to stay away? Why wouldn't they just release him then? They must have been a bit scared about his ability to play if they didn't want to face him?

 

Because Favre coming back is a no-win situation - you let him back, you might tear up team chemistry. You trade him and he continues to play like he did in '07, you look like idiots (Favre's late season fade was a blessing for the MM/TT regime).

Brett SHOULD NOT have retired in the first place. Done. But, why would a guy start to waiver each year since TT got there? If he's a prima-donna, then fine. But for many years Favre was a standup guy who did a lot for the community. I know people in GB that know Winters and others. They say it is well-known that TT let Brett know who was boss and that he wasn't "HIS" QB. Now, do we have any documentation of that? No. So, it could be just rumor. You can't avoid the fact that he didn't start the retire-unretire song and dance until TT was there.

To me it's all about Mike Sherman enabling Brett Favre for however many years. Favre carped about this and that and the other thing ("he didn't keep Wahle and Rivera" - Rivera was done, Wahle still had some left but got overpaid; "I wanted Marriucci hired" - c'mon, Mooch is a nice guy and fellow Yooper but I don't think he'd be all that much better than McCarthy; "I wanted Randy Moss" - because Moss took NE to a SB, right?) Favre started hinting around about retirement and then got pissed when GB drafted his heir apparent. Etc etc.

 

After years of being soft-shoed and with a healthy ego (not saying Favre isn't a swell guy in the community and such) I think Thompson coming in and saying "team above EVERY individual" probably DID rankle him. So what? I think that Favre's decision to retire was probably met with a sigh of relief by Packer brass, since IMO it was pretty apparent that '07 was his last, best chance for another ring and he couldn't get it done - played poorly in some of the biggest games (Dal, 2nd Chi game, NFC Championship), played HORRIBLY in brutal cold (@ Chi, NFC Champ again) - if you're GB and your QB can't function in cold, forget it - and with the season in the balance made an absolutely horrible, boneheaded throw.

 

Is Aaron Rodgers the guy to lead GB back to the promised land? Maybe, maybe not. It was apparent and is even moreso with hindsight that Brett Favre no longer was. Time to move on.

 

And like you said, agree to disagree. That's just where I stand.

 

Also, it's pretty apparent to me that there were good reasons to consider '08 a hiccup. 8-8 or worse means that both Thompson and McCarthy's seats should get VERY hot.

[Chavez]

Oh, one last thing - I think the problem with the open competition was less what happens if Rodgers loses than what happens if Favre loses.

[Ed Hoyle]

Good Points Chavez.

 

But, Favre was putting up just as good numbers as Rodgers during the first 8 games last year. I don't think he'd have lost the competition. But, you're right it could have been more chaos than what happened. TT and McCarthy had every reason to fear him.

 

The OL, Mooch, and Moss issues seemed more media based than Favre. I honestly don't remember him coming out on camera saying his displeasure...just remember hearing it in press. So, who knows if it is true. I could see that going either way. I think Mooch would have been just as good a fit since he'd been in the organization and did a decent job in SF. Detroit was a disaster, but I don't know anyone who will be able to change things that have been suffering since Matt Millen. I'll have to admit TT is doing a heckova better job than he did. Charles Rogers was a draft bust for me then. Dang.

 

Favre did play poor in the cold in '07 but I still think coaching was as much to blame for the NFC CHampionship debacle as it was Favre's dumb INT. They should have been prepared for that game. Favre played fairly well in the Seattle game too, and that was in cold blizzard conditions. You could tell that he was falling in the cold. But, the leadership factor had a way of getting lesser players to do more and play with swagger.

 

As for TT not being to blame for the injuries last year. That is a fair assessment, but if his draft picked youth are in place to create depth, that is one thing but shouldn't those depth players be able to step in and play at a high level too? I think that is a weak, but rational, defense.

 

We'll just have to wait and see how these next few years pan out. I agree, too, that 8-8 or less will get a hot seat started. It should. They got rid of Ray Rhodes after one 8-8 didn't they?

[piratesownninjas]

Also, it's pretty apparent to me that there were good reasons to consider '08 a hiccup. 8-8 or worse means that both Thompson and McCarthy's seats should get VERY hot.

Agree

 

Favre did play poor in the cold in '07 but I still think coaching was as much to blame for the NFC CHampionship debacle as it was Favre's dumb INT. They should have been prepared for that game. Favre played fairly well in the Seattle game too, and that was in cold blizzard conditions. You could tell that he was falling in the cold. But, the leadership factor had a way of getting lesser players to do more and play with swagger.

 

As for TT not being to blame for the injuries last year. That is a fair assessment, but if his draft picked youth are in place to create depth, that is one thing but shouldn't those depth players be able to step in and play at a high level too? I think that is a weak, but rational, defense.

You could have had any coach on the planet leading you that day and you're still going to lose. This is the same team that ran beat up a 13-3 cowboy team, and the 16-0 pats. Running at 2 yards a carry doesn't help, neither did Favre getting locked onto Driver and trying to force things. The Giants players outplayed the packers players.

[Chavez]

The OL, Mooch, and Moss issues seemed more media based than Favre. I honestly don't remember him coming out on camera saying his displeasure...just remember hearing it in press. So, who knows if it is true.

 

IIRC he noted at least a few of those during the GVS interview. If you avoided watching that my opinion of you just went up a notch.

 

I think Mooch would have been just as good a fit since he'd been in the organization and did a decent job in SF.

DECENT. And Mooch probably does deserve to have the Det stint wiped off his slate, but I don't think he's a "great" coach, that's been proven IMO. Why not try a new face? (FWIW, I don't see "greatness" in McCarthy either)

 

Favre did play poor in the cold in '07 but I still think coaching was as much to blame for the NFC CHampionship debacle as it was Favre's dumb INT. They should have been prepared for that game. Favre played fairly well in the Seattle game too, and that was in cold blizzard conditions. You could tell that he was falling in the cold. But, the leadership factor had a way of getting lesser players to do more and play with swagger.

I am in no way saying that Favre is the SOLE goat for the NFC Championship loss; McCarthy got outcoached and Al Harris should have stayed in bed.

 

But after a 2-3 year slide of poor late season performances and spotty games in cold weather, I think the trend was pretty obvious. Besides, it's tough to swagger when you've got your hands jammed down the front of your pants.

 

As for TT not being to blame for the injuries last year. That is a fair assessment, but if his draft picked youth are in place to create depth, that is one thing but shouldn't those depth players be able to step in and play at a high level too? I think that is a weak, but rational, defense.

I'm assuming this is directed at me, but I never made this argument, and I know Thompson has not in any way tried to use this as an excuse; I saw an interview with him where he said "I think we have some very good talent and good coaching and had some tough breaks, but bottom line is we were 6-10 and that's on me."

 

One thing I have NEVER gotten is that if you want to criticize Thompson's record, fine. But to me it seems that from the second he was hired there has been a very vocal contingent of GB fans who will NEVER cut him a break. That, I don't understand.

 

At the end of the day, it is obviously all about record. Thompson's 31-33 looks good if you view it as accomplished during a rebuilding phase and horrible if you subscribe to the "he took a 10-6 team and turned it into a 4-12 team" line of thinking. From my seat, I've seen much more good than bad from TT. Obviously you disagree.

 

 

EDITED TO ADD - the Seattle game was played in fairly mild 20 degree weather. I work outdoors, and the difference between that and a blustery below-zero windchill day is huge.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Chavez

[Ed Hoyle]

The Giants players outplayed the packers players.

 

 

I agree, and Favre's INT was the nail.

 

 

Now, don't get crazy, but isn't being outplayed part of an issue with coaching? The Giants were not more talented than GB, they just played with more intensity.

 

Either way, moot point.

[Chavez]

You could have had any coach on the planet leading you that day and you're still going to lose.

I thought it was pretty obvious Coughlin was owning McCarthy.

 

Again, among some total breakdowns by key players - it wasn't ALL coaching.

[Ed Hoyle]

Just some stats I found online from an NFL Info. Site----for Mike Sherman, since many believe him to be worse than McCarthy, and or TT.

 

In his six-year head coaching career with the Packers from 2000–05, Sherman compiled a 57–39 regular season record and a 2–4 postseason record. Sherman had used the West Coast Offense offensive strategy at Green Bay.

 

In 2000, Sherman became the head coach of the Green Bay Packers. He led the Packers to five consecutive winning seasons from 2000–04. From 2002–2004, he led the Packers to three consecutive NFC North Division titles. From 2000–04, he compiled a 53–27 record, and a .663 winning percentage, which is the second highest in Packers history, trailing that of Vince Lombardi's, who is one of the most successful coaches in the history of football. Additionally, Green Bay and the Philadelphia Eagles were the only two teams to make the playoffs for four consecutive seasons from 2001–04.

 

An offensive-minded coach, Sherman led the Packers to break franchise records for rushing in 2003 and passing in 2004. In 2003, Packers quarterback Brett Favre led the NFL in touchdown passes, in addition to setting a franchise record for rushing yardage. The 2003 team also gained a total of 442 points, which is second only to the franchise's record of 456 set in the 1996 season, when the team won the Super Bowl.

 

Despite receiving a contract extension earlier in the 2005 season, Sherman was fired by the Packers on January 2, 2006, after compiling a 4–12 record — Green Bay's first losing record since the 1991 season. The Packers had lost pro bowlers Javon Walker, Bubba Franks and Ahman Green to Injured Reserve early in the season.

 

So, why is McCarthy still here after the NFC slipup and 6=10 last year? No slam there, but just wondering where the switch was?

 

Also of the 43 players drafted by TT, 10 are starters and one has made the ProBowl. Harrell is looking more like a bust too. Not TT's fault, but he was injured his last year in Tenn.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Ed Hoyle

[The Wolf]

Got it.