NOSaint Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 This statistic I keep seeing more and more of is so annoying it's rediculous. They put up Roethlisberger and Brady on the screen comparing wins by a quarterback. Is that a serious statistic? Pittsburgh defense have anything at all to do with that? It kills me everytime I see it and guess I just needed to vent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 QB is the equivalent of P in baseball and goalie in hockey - too much credit when they win, too much blame when they lose. That's the way it is, I suggest you learn to deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bark Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I know this is a fantasy site and most of the topics are fantasy related but since when are wins irrelavent. ultimetly they are all that really matters (outside of fantasy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSaint Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 There is so many other ways to evaluate a quarterback is all I'm getting at and that has to be worst. Tom Brady and Roethlisberger don't belong in the same breath in my opinion. I know they come up with statistics for wins when wearing lucky draws on Saturdays when it's overcast with a full moon out and all but come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bark Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 statistics are great and in many ways useful but all that really matters is wins and rings big ben got both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 statistics are great and in many ways useful but all that really matters is wins and rings big ben got both I think the point is that...well, to go back to MLB Ps - would you rather have the guy with the 34-10 record and the 4.8 ERA, or the guy who's 20-22 but has a 2.2 ERA and a 3-1 K-BB ratio? Who is the better pitcher? Football is a complex game...possibly THE most complex. "Great" QBs don't exist in a vacuum; to win it all a team needs to catch lightning in a bottle and get hot at the right time - and on top of that they have to have a balanced, good team in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSaint Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 Football is the "team" sport. To display that statistic is ignorant, at least with Big Ben it is, who's wins is purely a product of one of the best NFL defenses in recent history. Sorry, they can do better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Football is the "team" sport. To display that statistic is ignorant, at least with Big Ben it is, who's wins is purely a product of one of the best NFL defenses in recent history. Sorry, they can do better than that. Oh, come on - it isn't as though Brady is carrying a team utterly bereft of talent on his back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bark Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I think the point is that...well, to go back to MLB Ps - would you rather have the guy with the 34-10 record and the 4.8 ERA, or the guy who's 20-22 but has a 2.2 ERA and a 3-1 K-BB ratio? Who is the better pitcher? Football is a complex game...possibly THE most complex. "Great" QBs don't exist in a vacuum; to win it all a team needs to catch lightning in a bottle and get hot at the right time - and on top of that they have to have a balanced, good team in the first place. I agree that it takes a team to win but to say its unfair to compare quaterbacks on wins is nuts specifically ben and brady its not like ben only won one year and didn't have to drive his team down field for a TD late in the superbowl. Its completly fair fair to show the stats of wins between ben and brady thats my only point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I agree that it takes a team to win but to say its unfair to compare quaterbacks on wins is nuts I recall at one point in the late 80s the QBs with the best win pct were Mike Tomczak and Jim McMahon - both with over 20 starts under their belt. This is when Elway, Marino, and Montana were playing. That should tell you about what you need about how legit a stat "QB wins" is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Football is the "team" sport. To display that statistic is ignorant, at least with Big Ben it is, who's wins is purely a product of one of the best NFL defenses in recent history. Sorry, they can do better than that. you are a Saints fan...what do you know about defense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bark Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I recall at one point in the late 80s the QBs with the best win pct were Mike Tomczak and Jim McMahon - both with over 20 starts under their belt. This is when Elway, Marino, and Montana were playing. That should tell you about what you need about how legit a stat "QB wins" is. Thats fine in that circumstance but i think we all can agree that ben is not Tomczak or McMahon if they were comparing trent Dilfer to Brady then there would be reason to complain. Brady is IMO a better quaterback but to compare wins between them two is not crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSaint Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 Hey, we got rid of Jason David, finally. That's 2 wins alone right there my friend before the season even starts. Roethlisberger had the worst rating ever in a SuperBowl in there first time around and I don't take credit away from him having a ring on his finger. So tell me, is throwing that number of superbowl wins up on the TV really going give someone who's maybe a every so often fan of football a clear picture of who is who? I think not. LOL, didn't intend to go this far with this at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bark Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 bottom line is that with the game on the line late there's not a lot of QBs i'd rather have then Ben Unless ward decides to get greedy and fumbles the ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I would take Trent Dilfer over Marino because at least Dilfer knows how to win a superbowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSaint Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 LOL for Trent Dilfer. Dilfer rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robash Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 LOL for Trent Dilfer. Dilfer rocks. Not if you are a Giants fan I still say if the Armstead Int return for a TD didn't get called back it would of been a whole different ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 This statistic I keep seeing more and more of is so annoying it's rediculous. They put up Roethlisberger and Brady on the screen comparing wins by a quarterback. Is that a serious statistic? Pittsburgh defense have anything at all to do with that? It kills me everytime I see it and guess I just needed to vent. New Englands' D in Brady's first couple of years was ridiculous. What are you complaining about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 New Englands' D in Brady's first couple of years was ridiculous. What are you complaining about? bingo. early on, brady received a lot of help from a. smith and a GREAT d/st.... brady elevated his game a few years later... and can "carry' a team. still don't think roth is that type of qb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutrun Jellies Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 This statistic I keep seeing more and more of is so annoying it's rediculous. They put up Roethlisberger and Brady on the screen comparing wins by a quarterback. Is that a serious statistic? Pittsburgh defense have anything at all to do with that? It kills me everytime I see it and guess I just needed to vent. Your complaint sounds much like Buddy Ryan's infamous misevaluation of Chris Carter, when he cut the future Hall of Famer, because "all he does is catch touchdown passes" ... If all Roethlisberger ever does from here on out is to continue to let my beloved Steeeeeelers win, I'm good with that. Let the meaningless "who's better" chatter go -- it's fundamentally flawed, so don't stress about it ... Infatuation with ratings and rankings and stats are what lead one to draft like the Oakland Raiders rather than to build a team like Pittsburgh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 bingo. early on, brady received a lot of help from a. smith and a GREAT d/st.... brady elevated his game a few years later... and can "carry' a team. still don't think roth is that type of qb Brady was a "game manager" during his first season as starter; but IMO he started carrying the team as early as '02 - the D (overall D was in the bottom half, the run D was near the VERY bottom) and run game fell off; Brady led the league in TD passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffian Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Ben does enough to win. That doesn't mean he's a great quarterback...but no one cares about his yardage. The only statistic that matters is wins. Archie Manning had tremendous talent, but couldn't will his team to win. Jeff George was a great passer. He couldn't get it done when the chips were down. Can't take it from Ben or Tom when it comes to winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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