cdrudge Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 This analogy always seems so dumb to me. This is not anything like a H2H matchup in the REAL NFL. It is completely random and based not on you or your teammates or coaches actually performing, it's based on a bunch of made-up numbers. In the real sport, H2H should mean everything because you actually went out there and manned up. In FANTASY sports, H2H has nothing to do with how good you are, and should have nothing to do with how successful you are.Any type of fantasy game is just a simulation using player statistics from one (real) game but presuming that they would have those same statistics in a different (fantasy) game. It's a flawed argument to say that scoring for a H2H game is just a bunch of made up numbers, but a total points is somehow not using those same made up numbers. I prefer H2H vs total points. In a head to head game, it's just you vs your opponent for that week. It doesn't matter what you did last week. It doesn't matter what you will do next week. It doesn't matter to what degree other players on other teams do other then if they contributed to a win or a loss for their owner. In the end it only matters who gets the win and who gets the loss that week. And for the record, in one of my leagues I have Brees, Peterson, and Chris Johnson. I'm 2nd in overall points, but 7th in the overall standings as there have been some absolute monster weeks followed by a couple of well below average weeks. It's very well possible that I'll miss the playoffs based on H2H standings, but I'm fine with that because my TEAM, as a whole, didn't perform well enough consistently enough to get me to the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayLow Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I thought that was the whole point of H2H fantasy, that regardless of who your players or your opp players are, you had a chance to win. If the best team on paper is virtually guaranteed to win...why play? H2H also takes out that freak weak or 2 where one team simply explodes in points, skyrocketing to the top in a points only league. Consistent play is how you win in the NFL...and that's how it should be in fantasy...but that's just my opinion. Bingo "Sack up" as someone earlier so eloquently put it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 So what do you prefer, total points? I look at it the opposite way. Last i checked the NFL doesn't send teams to the playoffs based on how many points they scored in the regular season.. I think it's silly to send a team to the fantasy playoffs based on total points too. Yes, I prefer total points. Every person I know who likes H2H uses that same argument (comparison to NFL) - except, this is not the NFL, it's fantasy. In fantasy, my players aren't really playing against yours like they do in the real NFL so that comparison does not make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) Yes, I prefer total points. Every person I know who likes H2H uses that same argument (comparison to NFL) - except, this is not the NFL, it's fantasy. In fantasy, my players aren't really playing against yours like they do in the real NFL so that comparison does not make sense. i disagree- I think it does. While this is obviously not a real NFL-type matchup, at least you get the team A vs team B head to head competition factor that makes it more exciting both scoring, and chit-talking wise. Like previous posts there are ways to award high scoring teams. Honestly tho, at least in my leagues H2H format seems to always end up having the best teams make the playoffs IMO total points is lame and would bore the chit outta me. Edited November 4, 2009 by wildcat2334 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 totally agree - H2H isn't perfek but at least it gives you a matchup week to week, and it adds some excitement coming into the Sun night and Mon night games that total points scored would not do. Basing of total points scored would be boring and lame, most leagues do reward you for high score. I dunno, in my leagues H2H always seems to do a good job of getting the best teams into the playoffs........ This. We play this game for fun. Well, at least we should play it for fun. It would be significantly less fun if H2H didn't exist. Not only because there'd be nobody to talk smack to in the week leading up (or on Sunday when some crazy chight happens) but, even in leagues where you don't know people all that well, there wouldn't be the urgency on Monday. A fail safe way to be fair is to take the top 3 records and the guy with the highest point total of the remaining to the play-offs (or whatever version of that fits your league size and divisions). That pretty much insures that the best teams make it. Of course, then you're in the dreaded H2H for all the marbles anyway, so the evil specter of fun raises it's ugly head again. What to do? I mean, who among us haven't just breezed through the league, including the semis, only to lay an egg one week, in week 16. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 i disagree- I think it does. While this is obviously not a real NFL-type matchup, at least you get the team A vs team B head to head competition factor that makes it more exciting both scoring, and chit-talking wise. Like previous posts there are ways to award high scoring teams. Honestly tho, at least in my leagues H2H format seems to always end up having the best teams make the playoffs IMO total points is lame and would bore the chit outta me. To each his own I guess. I prefer the best drafted and managed team to win the money, not some luck of scheduling. I'm in one league among my friends where H2H gets more of the payout. This league is in it's 5th year and 4/5 of those years the total points leader has not made the playoffs. Could this be an anomaly - perhaps, but I've seen it happen more often than not and it's not right. Those of you who prefer 'everyone to have a chance' - well, that's just a loser mentality if you ask me. That type of mentality is only shared by people who are not used to being winners and because they aren't good at fantasy, they want an equal chance at the prize. Please tell me how if I score the 2nd most points in a given week but my opponent scores the most - why should I get a loss when half the leauge scoring less will get wins? It's not like my opponent did anything to prevent me from winning (like in real NFL). The loss comes from scheduling luck. If you want to implement H2H, the only fair way, IMO, is to use an 'all play' method. That is where each team plays every other team in the league each week. So, if we're talking a 12 man league and I score the 2nd most points that week, my record that week would be 10-1. This type of H2H eliminates the luck of scheduling. When playing for money, I think the goal should be to eliminate as much luck as possible from the end result - if not, then it's more about playing the lottery than implementing skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBalata Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 That type of mentality is only shared by people who are not used to being winners and because they aren't good at fantasy, they want an equal chance at the prize. See...at the same time, i see your attitude as one where...I can only play the game if it's set up by my rules, otherwise I won't play. So you like to equate the way you like to play as you're a better drafter and manager...as long as the rules are set up your way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Fan Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Any type of fantasy game is just a simulation using player statistics from one (real) game but presuming that they would have those same statistics in a different (fantasy) game. It's a flawed argument to say that scoring for a H2H game is just a bunch of made up numbers, but a total points is somehow not using those same made up numbers. I prefer H2H vs total points. In a head to head game, it's just you vs your opponent for that week. It doesn't matter what you did last week. It doesn't matter what you will do next week. It doesn't matter to what degree other players on other teams do other then if they contributed to a win or a loss for their owner. In the end it only matters who gets the win and who gets the loss that week. And for the record, in one of my leagues I have Brees, Peterson, and Chris Johnson. I'm 2nd in overall points, but 7th in the overall standings as there have been some absolute monster weeks followed by a couple of well below average weeks. It's very well possible that I'll miss the playoffs based on H2H standings, but I'm fine with that because my TEAM, as a whole, didn't perform well enough consistently enough to get me to the playoffs. You completely wiffed on my point. the point is that it's not a real H2H matchup unless you physically go out on a field and suit up and play against the other team. That's why the NFL uses H2H, because they actually do that. Fantasy sports are just that -- FANTASY. That means you don't actually go out on a field and settle things and your success in a league is not based on your skill as a drafter, or your skill in free agency or trades, or your skill in formulating a starting lineup. Your success is based on the fantasy Gods and whether or not your opponent started MJD. At times I feel like I'm spending several hours a week picking freakin' lottery numbers and that feels pretty stupid sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddahj Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Bingo "Sack up" as someone earlier so eloquently put it Please explain how playing a game of luck is "sacking up". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 In some of my leagues the top 2 in wins/loss are seeded #1 & #2 then the top 2 in points are seeded #3 & #4...seems to work well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebdog Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Ok, so i've been thinking a lot about luck in fantasy football. Admittedly this is because i'm 4-4 in my big money league yet i have the most points and without bragging my team has been put together with near perfection. Believe me, this doesn't happen every year, but it has so far this year and i'm not getting rewarded for it. The guy in first has the 3rd lowest point total, and quite honestly this is really pi$$ing me off. In some ways, luck playing a role does add something to some leagues because it allows people who aren't fanatics to compete. With that said it just seems that there's got to be a better way of scoring to make fantasy football better. I know there is the option of total points leagues but that takes away from the week to week matchups that are a good part of the enjoyment of watching each week. I suppose i'm just ranting to some extent and not expecting any groundbreaking thoughts because they would've been offered up already. Guess i'm just throwing this topic out for discussion. lol. i'm also 4 & 4 and have the highest point total and power ranking in my pool. i lost this week to the only team that scored more than i did. that being said, take it in stride. its entertainment. just make your playoffs and hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 See...at the same time, i see your attitude as one where...I can only play the game if it's set up by my rules, otherwise I won't play. So you like to equate the way you like to play as you're a better drafter and manager...as long as the rules are set up your way. Not really. At the end of the day, wouldn't you say the best fantasy team is the team that scores the most points? If a team wins the SB but is the lowest scorer, is he really the best team? I can't see any rationale that would support that argument. The bottom line is you need to score points to win, the most points should indicate the best team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Muto Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 If luck weren't involved, I guess I'd win every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notamomo Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 At the end of the day, wouldn't you say the best fantasy team is the team that scores the most points? No, the best team is the team that scores the most points on a week-to-week basis relative to other teams in the league. This is what breakdown record shows. Often times, the high scorer and/or the W-L leader is also the breakdown leader. Other times, it's completely different. We use breakdown record to try to minimize the luck factor. Come playoff time, it's obviously H2H to see who advances. Most points scored is an achievement, no doubt. But I don't think it necessarily defines who the best team is. If you haven't guessed by now, I'm a hugh fan of the breakdown! Just my 2 cents.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Fan Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 If luck weren't involved, I guess I'd win every year. And welcome to my sigline! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis29 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 There's always a component of luck in each fantasy football season, but week 8 is too early to complain about it, IMO. If you build a solid team, you'll be rewarded over the course of the season most times. Honestly, I've had seasons I've started 4-0 and seasons I've started 0-4 and made the playoffs in both instances (as well as sitting at .500 this late in the year). I looked back at some of our league standings over the last decade plus, and I could only find an instance or two where a high scoring team didn't make the playoffs. I think luck is more of a factor IN the playoffs, although a smart owner should be working his roster to emphasize those weeks as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I love when this topic comes around If it was only luck , no need to draft ...just autodraft or use a sight that allows for autodraft There is a great deal of luck involved but there also has to be knowledge , studying ( getting information ) and decision making ...and in the end like the article in the huddle that someone earlier linked says " skill means you make your own luck " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 No, the best team is the team that scores the most points on a week-to-week basis relative to other teams in the league. This is what breakdown record shows. Often times, the high scorer and/or the W-L leader is also the breakdown leader. Other times, it's completely different. We use breakdown record to try to minimize the luck factor. Come playoff time, it's obviously H2H to see who advances. Most points scored is an achievement, no doubt. But I don't think it necessarily defines who the best team is. If you haven't guessed by now, I'm a hugh fan of the breakdown! Just my 2 cents.... So on one hand, you H2H believers do agree that winning in a given week comes down to scoring more points than your opponent. But on the other hand you don't think that same criteria (scoring more points than your opponents) is relative for the entire season? I just can't agree with that twisted logic. Just admit that you H2H pundits would rather rely on scheduling luck than the overall achievment of your team. It's highly feasible that you can score the 2nd most points each and every week for the entire season but as luck may have it, each week your opponent is the high scorer for that given week. The result of this bad luck is that you go 0-13 on the season but score more points than anyone else while clearly having the best team in your league. The bottom line is that H2H has more luck that translates to the outcome than overall points - this is fact. Scoring the most points over the season is the true indicator of the best fantasy team, not who wins the SB in a H2H league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. Mr. Cliche should have said this. He's been MIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Fan Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I love when this topic comes around If it was only luck , no need to draft ...just autodraft or use a sight that allows for autodraft There is a great deal of luck involved but there also has to be knowledge , studying ( getting information ) and decision making ...and in the end like the article in the huddle that someone earlier linked says " skill means you make your own luck " I would argue that the reason we prepare and draft is that we enjoy it, not that it makes a huge difference to the outcome of the season. How many times have you seen a guy win a championship with the team he drafted other than in Emmitt or Marshall some other guys amazing years where they won it themselves? And those seasons weren't won on drafting skill, but on the draft order. I'd bet your odds of winning the championship would be exactly the same (or damn close) if everyone autodrafted as they are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis29 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 So on one hand, you H2H believers do agree that winning in a given week comes down to scoring more points than your opponent. But on the other hand you don't think that same criteria (scoring more points than your opponents) is relative for the entire season? I just can't agree with that twisted logic. Just admit that you H2H pundits would rather rely on scheduling luck than the overall achievment of your team. It's highly feasible that you can score the 2nd most points each and every week for the entire season but as luck may have it, each week your opponent is the high scorer for that given week. The result of this bad luck is that you go 0-13 on the season but score more points than anyone else while clearly having the best team in your league. The bottom line is that H2H has more luck that translates to the outcome than overall points - this is fact. Scoring the most points over the season is the true indicator of the best fantasy team, not who wins the SB in a H2H league. Sorry, this is not logical at all, and just stating it as a "fact" is nonsense. I'd take a fantasy team that put up consistently high point totals week to week over a team that was boom or bust, even if that team ends up with the most points scored overall in the league. I think there is more that goes into what makes the "best" team besides overall points scored over the course of the season. You may go through 13 weeks with the highest scoring team and think everything is just hunkydory come playoff time, but Joe Schmoe who gets in as the 4th seed may have made trades and pickups for players that have better matchups come playoff time...and Joe Schmoe may well beat you. Having the "best" team doesn't just mean having the best players...it's having a good manager as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friedrice Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I compare it to poker. you are looking for consistency. You can start with a pair of Aces and end up losing. While there are some elements of luck - someone who consistently plays well with end up on top end the end and of course will run across a few bad beats on the river Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Luck plays a part regardless . . . H2H or not. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. Look at all the studs with great matchups who fail to produce while some unknown pulls a Ryan Moats. Look at all the touchdowns called back for a hold, dropped endzone passes that would have pushed you over the top. Injuries that you have no control over can kill you. There are some variances, but teams that consistently score higher each week (well constructed teams) tend to beat poorly constructed teams. I enjoy H2H and would never bother with a pure number league. I find that poopy dull and devoid of personality. I'm leading my division in points and have the best record. Both are due to luck more than skill. Some weeks despite Huddle predictions, I see the league bitches knock off top dogs. I wouldn't have it any other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Sorry, this is not logical at all, and just stating it as a "fact" is nonsense. I'd take a fantasy team that put up consistently high point totals week to week over a team that was boom or bust, even if that team ends up with the most points scored overall in the league. I think there is more that goes into what makes the "best" team besides overall points scored over the course of the season. You may go through 13 weeks with the highest scoring team and think everything is just hunkydory come playoff time, but Joe Schmoe who gets in as the 4th seed may have made trades and pickups for players that have better matchups come playoff time...and Joe Schmoe may well beat you. Having the "best" team doesn't just mean having the best players...it's having a good manager as well. werd I am currently #1 in points in my $$ league, and am 5-3 and I am fine with that. You know why?? bc this year has been feast or famine for so many players - CJ, Slaton, RBrown, for instance on my team has led to 3 weeks where my team was chit and I deserved a L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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