Houston RB Situation

[Seahawks21]

How do you propose the Texans will find out if Slaton has cured his fumbling problems? They obviously don't want to risk him losing games for them. I think Slaton will get his job back sooner rather than later, but it is pretty clear to see why they took it away from him in the first place.

[kpholmes]

We had a chance (two really) at Cedric Benson when he was disgruntled and no one wanted him. Now he is running like a man possessed.

I've definitely enjoyed watching Benson this season. He is certainly playing with a chip on his shoulder.

He was one of the few starters on the Bengals that requested not to be included in Hard Knocks this offseason - he's made it very clear he wants to do his talking on the field.

 

Sometimes, maybe disgruntled RBs are the way to go - so maybe LJ wouldn't be a terrible fit in Houston.

[giantsfan]

I always thought Moats was a good back coming out of Louisiana Tech. Although he isnt as explosive as Slaton, he can still do all of the same things. The big play is the big edge I give SS. I would have thought he got them worked out before........but not so much.

 

And yes I would take a chance on LJ. We had a chance (two really) at Cedric Benson when he was disgruntled and no one wanted him. Now he is running like a man possessed.

Fair enough. I think Slaton is better than LJ, but not crazy to give him a run I guess.

 

Will be interesting to see where LJ goes.

 

As for Moats v Slaton we'll agree to disagree. I don't see Moats as having close to the talent of Slaton.

[giantsfan]

How do you propose the Texans will find out if Slaton has cured his fumbling problems? They obviously don't want to risk him losing games for them. I think Slaton will get his job back sooner rather than later, but it is pretty clear to see why they took it away from him in the first place.

Put him in and see what he does. He fumbles again that's all she wrote. Both Brown and Moats have fumbled on the 1 yard line this year as well.

 

And we TOTALLY agree that Slaton deserved his benching. You will never see me argue that one. I am just saying. He was benched for 1 game. Barely played in a 2nd game. Moats had his shot yesterday and was not great. Time to move on and get Slaton back in. He is the better RB and the teams best shot to win.

Edited November 9, 2009 by giantsfan

[Seahawks21]

Kubiak to Slaton: "If you fumble again, you're done".

 

Two weeks later: "Okay, this time we really mean it. If you fumble again, you're really done."

[giantsfan]

Kubiak to Slaton: "If you fumble again, you're done".

 

Two weeks later: "Okay, this time we really mean it. If you fumble again, you're really done."

Was that said?

 

Who knows. Doubt it because he still played him some yesterday didn't he? And they are working on the issue. And he continues to support him somewhat publically.

 

Again if Kubiak wants to prove a point to the negatve of the team go right ahead. That is his call. I am simply saying (and I think it is VERY difficult to argue this) that Slaton gives them the best chance to win by a mile.

 

He was benched. He has been doing tons of extra work. Point proven IMO.

 

We'll see.

[Seahawks21]

Was that said?

 

Who knows. Doubt it because he still played him some yesterday didn't he? And they are working on the issue. And he continues to support him somewhat publically.

 

Again if Kubiak wants to prove a point to the negatve of the team go right ahead. That is his call. I am simply saying (and I think it is VERY difficult to argue this) that Slaton gives them the best chance to win by a mile.

 

He was benched. He has been doing tons of extra work. Point proven IMO.

 

We'll see.

Do you think it is possible that the coaching staff also believes Slaton gives them the best chance to lose? Now that is a point that is hard to argue against.

[giantsfan]

Do you think it is possible that the coaching staff also believes Slaton gives them the best chance to lose? Now that is a point that is hard to argue against.

Not sure about that. Brown failed numerous times at the GL (including a huge fumble) and still got chances. Moats had a big fumble yesterday and stayed in (anyone can fumble once though).

 

What I am saying is real and tangible IMO. What you are saying is less real and tangible IMO.

 

I can show proof that Slaton is better than Moats.

 

Not sure you can show proof that Moats gives them a better shot to win than Slaton.

 

Anything is possible though.

[Seahawks21]

What I am saying is real and tangible IMO. What you are saying is less real and tangible IMO.

You have been basing an argument that you believe Slaton is more talented and therefore gives them a better chance to win, even though he has fumbling issues. How in the world do you consider that "real and tangible". Do you even know what "tangible" means? I haven't seen a single stat. Not one. I haven't seen a single fact. All rhetoric. When did rhetoric become "tangible?"

[giantsfan]

REALLY?

 

1282 rushing yards last year. 1659 total yards last year. 10 TD's last year.

 

This year even WITH being benched for a game and getting limited touches yesterday he is on pace for over 1200 total yards. And is on pace for 10 total TD's.

 

Before the Buff game he was on pace for like 1400 + total yards.

 

Moats is a journeyman RB.

 

Is that tangible enough?

 

Again, to me this is a debate you can not win.

 

If your opinion is he deserves to be benched because of all the fumbles then okay great go with that. I can't say you are wrong for feeling that way.

 

BUT if you are stating they are better with Moats in there OR even worse that Moats is as good or better than Slaton, then you are crazy.

[i_am_the_swammi]

Not sure you can show proof that Moats gives them a better shot to win than Slaton.

 

Proof?

 

Last week, Moats gave them a much better chance than the guy who had 1 carry for 1 yard and 1 fumble.

[giantsfan]

Proof?

 

Last week, Moats gave them a much better chance than the guy who had 1 carry for 1 yard and 1 fumble.

Yes. At home against the worst run D in the NFL he had a GREAT game.

 

And he earned a shot yesterday against a real D and was awful.

 

What is funny about this debate is I freely admit ANYONE who thinks Slaton should be benched has total grounds to do so.

 

What I find shocking is some people really believe that journey man Ryan Moats is better than Slaton talent wise?

 

The guy had 1600 yards and 10 TD's last year people.

 

Is on pace for 1200 yards and 10 more TD's this year, and that is with being benched a game, and losing some GL carries, and being rarely used in another game.

Edited November 9, 2009 by giantsfan

[i_am_the_swammi]

What I find shocking is some people really believe that journey man Ryan Moats is better than Slaton talent wise?

 

I don't think anyone beleives that....but life is littered with a lot of talented players, from all sports, that couldn't get the job done. You can be a talented pitcher, but if you walk a bunch of batters, you are going to get hurt. You can be a talented golfer, but if you can't putt, you are going to get hurt. You can be a talented basketball player, but if you can shoot the jump shot, you are going to get hurt. And if you are an explosive running back, but continue to turn the ball over because you simply can't secure it, you are going to get hurt.

 

Every head coach, from high school to the pros, talks about winning the turnover battle in order to win games....Slaton has become a player that kills his team in that regard, and right now, his plethera of talent is wasted on the pine because they can't trust him to carry the ball with any frequency. That should tell you how important NOT fumbling is.

 

BTW, about that awful game Moats had yesterday:

 

Moats: 16 carries, 38 yards, 2.37 YPC

Slaton: 6 carries, 17 yards, 2.8 YPC

 

It certianly looks like they performed about the same agains that tough Colts defense. moreover, cetianlty doesn' look like Slaton did anything to earn the job back (other than NOT fumble).

[keggerz]

slaton wasnt drafted to shoulder the load...he was thrust into that situation last year out of necessity....he had a phenomenal LAST year...he has a place in this O but shouldering the load at RB probably isnt it

 

also if memory serves me correctly Moats was really hindered by injuries early in his career with the eagles...much was expected of him coming out of college so it wont surprise me to see him turn the corner...it happens....say it doesnt and the 1st guy I will tell you to look at is Priest Holmes

[giantsfan]

I don't think anyone beleives that....but life is littered with a lot of talented players, from all sports, that couldn't get the job done. You can be a talented pitcher, but if you walk a bunch of batters, you are going to get hurt. You can be a talented golfer, but if you can't putt, you are going to get hurt. You can be a talented basketball player, but if you can shoot the jump shot, you are going to get hurt. And if you are an explosive running back, but continue to turn the ball over because you simply can't secure it, you are going to get hurt.

 

Every head coach, from high school to the pros, talks about winning the turnover battle in order to win games....Slaton has become a player that kills his team in that regard, and right now, his plethera of talent is wasted on the pine because they can't trust him to carry the ball with any frequency. That should tell you how important NOT fumbling is.

 

BTW, about that awful game Moats had yesterday:

 

Moats: 16 carries, 38 yards, 2.37 YPC

Slaton: 6 carries, 17 yards, 2.8 YPC

 

It certianly looks like they performed about the same agains that tough Colts defense. moreover, cetianlty doesn' look like Slaton did anything to earn the job back (other than NOT fumble).

1. What makes you say Slaton can't get the job done? His #'s don't say that?

2. Slaton's YPC has been down all year. Blame the OL. Blame him. Either way is okay with me. BUT he adds a demension with the pass catching that clearly separates him IMO.

 

Their O looked poor yesterday. Is that because of no Slaton? Good Indy D? No Daniels? Who knows I guess.

 

I just know if I were HC I would have Slaton in there after the bye.

 

That is just me.

[keggerz]

fixed

[Rovers]

slaton wasnt drafted to shoulder the load...he was thrust into that situation last year out of necessity....he had a phenomenal LAST year...he has a place in this O but shouldering the load at RB probably isnt it

 

also if memory serves me correctly Moats was really hindered by injuries early in his career with the eagles...much was expected of him coming out of college so it wont surprise me to see him turn the corner...it happens....say it doesnt and the 1st guy I will tell you to look at is Priest Holmes

 

Wasn't drafted to shoulder the load? Neither was Tiki Barber, Ray Rice or Jones-Drew. Sometimes an RB exceeds his draft potential. Seems to me Slaton could be one of those guys. The Houston O line is pretty sucky at run blocking. Has been for years. I don't think the poor YPC that is the history of the Texans is all the fault of the RB's, not by a long stretch.

 

But the Holmes reference? Keg. Get a grip. Moats the next PH?

[Bier Meister]

slaton has approx 700 combined yds in 8 games with 6 td's (scoringing in 4 of 8 games)... highest he has broken 60 3 times with the highest being 76 in a game. 3.1 ypa

 

moats has 260 combined yds in 3 games with 4 td's (scoring in 2 of 3 games). has rushed for 56, 126, and 38 yds. 4.1 ypa

 

 

you want to talk about a pace? here are your numbers.

[keggerz]

Wasn't drafted to shoulder the load? Neither was Tiki Barber, Ray Rice or Jones-Drew. Sometimes an RB exceeds his draft potential. Seems to me Slaton could be one of those guys. The Houston O line is pretty sucky at run blocking. Has been for years. I don't think the poor YPC that is the history of the Texans is all the fault of the RB's, not by a long stretch.

 

But the Holmes reference? Keg. Get a grip. Moats the next PH?

he wasnt drafted to shoulder the load...and there were reasons for that...doesnt mean he couldnt turn into that guy...last year had people hyped but there were red flags to be wary of him continuing to shoulder the load.....I dont think Moats is the next PH but was using it to point out to giantslatonfan that just because Moats hasnt done much up til now doesnt mean he cant go on to become a successful RB

 

Edit: Used holmes since he was an easy guy off the top of my head

Edited November 9, 2009 by keggerz

[giantsfan]

[

he wasnt drafted to shoulder the load...and there were reasons for that...doesnt mean he couldnt turn into that guy...last year had people hyped but there were red flags to be wary of him continuing to shoulder the load.....I dont think Moats is the next PH but was using it to point out to giantslatonfan that just because Moats hasnt done much up til now doesnt mean he cant go on to become a successful RB

 

Edit: Used holmes since he was an easy guy off the top of my head

I think I am just being honest. I don't like or dislike Slaton. Just think he is clearly the better RB when compared to Moats.

 

Not saying Moats can't be good because he has been a journeyman. Simply saying looking at the numbers I KNOW Slaton is already good.

 

And using ANY projections for Moats off of one game is unfair IMO. His one game was vs awful Buff. That is not fair IMO.

[Seahawks21]

REALLY?

 

1282 rushing yards last year. 1659 total yards last year. 10 TD's last year.

 

This year even WITH being benched for a game and getting limited touches yesterday he is on pace for over 1200 total yards. And is on pace for 10 total TD's.

 

Before the Buff game he was on pace for like 1400 + total yards.

 

Moats is a journeyman RB.

 

Is that tangible enough?

 

Again, to me this is a debate you can not win.

 

If your opinion is he deserves to be benched because of all the fumbles then okay great go with that. I can't say you are wrong for feeling that way.

 

BUT if you are stating they are better with Moats in there OR even worse that Moats is as good or better than Slaton, then you are crazy.

Have I ever said anything remotely close to insisting Moats is more talented than Slaton?

 

Slaton was on pace for who knows how many fumbles. You can't win with that. Therefore you can make an argument that Moats gives them a better chance to win, or at the very least, gives them a smaller chance to lose. This works if you feel your passing game and defense can get you into the playoffs. If you feel that a step down in rushing production hurts you less than recurring fumbles, it would be wise to make a move to a running back who doesn't have as much talent, but will do a better job of protecting the ball.

 

Roy Williams was an extremely "talented" safety. He continually made big mistakes that cost his team games, therefore found himself without a job.

[giantsfan]

We'll see how it plays out.

 

I see NO downside to sticking Slaton back in. You say downside is he fumbles. I say he goes back in and fumbles one more time in a reasonable timeframe, that is it he is done.

 

We shall see how it plays out. Interesting debate.

[Bier Meister]

[

I think I am just being honest. I don't like or dislike Slaton. Just think he is clearly the better RB when compared to Moats.

 

Not saying Moats can't be good because he has been a journeyman. Simply saying looking at the numbers I KNOW Slaton is already good.

 

And using ANY projections for Moats off of one game is unfair IMO. His one game was vs awful Buff. That is not fair IMO.

 

 

you were definitley insinuating that moats isn't in slaton's ballpark. even if you toss the buf game, moats' numbers show that he can put up similar numbers to slaton, with a reduced risk of turning the ball over. hou hasn't had teh toughest rushing schedule, so who is to say that moats wouldn't have posted similar numbers

 

 

just sees like you are one of many that bought into slaton (which is fine), and trying to create a rationale that he should be back in the game (which is not automatic based on how moats is performing). the area that slaton has a big numerical advatage is in the passing game... has been much more involved, but who knows how moats would respond with more balls throw to him?

[i_am_the_swammi]

1. What makes you say Slaton can't get the job done? His #'s don't say that?

 

if he fumbles at the same frequency he has been, it almost doesn't matter what his numbers are, because his great production would be offset by the opposition's points scored and time of posession gained. No one wants their RB position to be a wash...they want him to be an advantage.

 

I just know if I were HC I would have Slaton in there after the bye.

 

it wouldnt' shock me one bit if, after the next two weeks of practice, they give him some rope to work on what he should have been doing all season....finding a way to secure the ball. But I just don't see him being the primary back. Yesterday, the split was 75/25. I could see it being 50/50 as we move forward, or if Moats stumbles.

 

But Moats has 4 TDs, 150+ yards in the last 7 quarters of football....somehow, I don't think he disappears from this offense. And don't think Moats isn't good...he spent a couple season's learning while stuck behind Westbook....he is approaching his prime, undersands his limitations, and exploits his strengths. He's a good football player, and from what I've seen and read, a good person and solid teammate....solid combo that endears itself to a coaching staff.

Edited November 9, 2009 by i_am_the_swammi

[Rovers]

slaton has approx 700 combined yds in 8 games with 6 td's (scoringing in 4 of 8 games)... highest he has broken 60 3 times with the highest being 76 in a game. 3.1 ypa

 

moats has 260 combined yds in 3 games with 4 td's (scoring in 2 of 3 games). has rushed for 56, 126, and 38 yds. 4.1 ypa

 

 

you want to talk about a pace? here are your numbers.

 

LOL... yeah, and where did most of those numbers come from? The ONE game against Detroit, that's where. Slaton would have ripped the Lions apart too, but he got benched. You can do better than that... or maybe not in defense of Moats?