Dwayne Bowe

[OCSkins]

What is up with The Huddle's unexplainable love affair with Dwayne Bowe? According to the the stats on NFL.com, Bowe is the #45 WR in yardage, the #54 WR in receptions, and the #44 WR in yards per game. So WHY WHY WHY WHY does The Huddle continue to rate Bowe in their top 20 WRs for the rest of the season rankings? He's #16 this week!!!

 

I don't get it. Makes NO sense to me. I would have a hard time making an argument to even put him in the top 40, much less the top 20. Is it because he has 4 TDs? Is that why?

 

Someone please explain it to me!!!!!!!

[kingfish247]

What is up with The Huddle's unexplainable love affair with Dwayne Bowe? According to the the stats on NFL.com, Bowe is the #45 WR in yardage, the #54 WR in receptions, and the #44 WR in yards per game. So WHY WHY WHY WHY does The Huddle continue to rate Bowe in their top 20 WRs for the rest of the season rankings? He's #16 this week!!!

 

I don't get it. Makes NO sense to me. I would have a hard time making an argument to even put him in the top 40, much less the top 20. Is it because he has 4 TDs? Is that why?

 

Someone please explain it to me!!!!!!!

Probably because he's the clear WR1 in an offense that a) can't run, b ) will play from behind a lot, and c) has a capable QB at the helm.

 

He's had better than 70yds OR a TD in every game except one. That's some nice steady production easily making him a decent FF WR2 (herego the #16 ranking this week).

Edited November 11, 2009 by kingfish247

[keggerz]

Bowe missed one game and then had his worst game of the year after that game (leaving one to assume he still wasnt 100% healthy)...take away those 2 games and his avg is 12.23 PPG which ranks 16th among WRs...i also think it is safe to assume that Cassell will continue to get more comfortable in the O and with his recvrs...add in that Chambers could very well alleviate much of the double teams that Bowe has seen and walahh a top 16 WR going forward

[OCSkins]

Kingfish, all your pts are true, but to me that just means he's the only real threat they have and thus defenses will key on him. True, he has 4 TDs, but some were garbage time TDs and a couple were really good catches. But TDs nonetheless.

 

I would also like to point out that in the Rest of Season rankings, Bowe is ahead of Hester, TJ Housh, Greg Jennings, both Steve Smiths and all the other Giants WRs, too. All of those guys have former/current Pro Bowl QBs at the helm, so I'm not buying that Bowe having a "capable QB" is a reason he is ranked so high.

 

I still think The Huddle is just waaaaay, waaaay off on Bowe.

[keggerz]

Kingfish, all your pts are true, but to me that just means he's the only real threat they have and thus defenses will key on him. True, he has 4 TDs, but some were garbage time TDs and a couple were really good catches. But TDs nonetheless.

 

I would also like to point out that in the Rest of Season rankings, Bowe is ahead of Hester, TJ Housh, Greg Jennings, both Steve Smiths and all the other Giants WRs, too. All of those guys have former/current Pro Bowl QBs at the helm, so I'm not buying that Bowe having a "capable QB" is a reason he is ranked so high.

 

I still think The Huddle is just waaaaay, waaaay off on Bowe.

Ok, then we get it...you don't like Bowe

 

guess you also decided to ignore the numbers that I tossed out for you too.

[SLAYER]

Kingfish, all your pts are true, but to me that just means he's the only real threat they have and thus defenses will key on him. True, he has 4 TDs, but some were garbage time TDs and a couple were really good catches. But TDs nonetheless.

 

I would also like to point out that in the Rest of Season rankings, Bowe is ahead of Hester, TJ Housh, Greg Jennings, both Steve Smiths and all the other Giants WRs, too. All of those guys have former/current Pro Bowl QBs at the helm, so I'm not buying that Bowe having a "capable QB" is a reason he is ranked so high.

 

I still think The Huddle is just waaaaay, waaaay off on Bowe.

Question #1 Do you own Bowe?

If not then quit wasting my time by posting something that you have made your mind up about.

If you do, why? people have given you good info as to why and you just shoot em down. If your mind was made up before you posted that he is #40 or worse then why ask a question you don't want to listen to the answer.

and if you think your opinion that he is #40 or worse is going to change someone's mind who has him ranked higher you are wrong.

[ebartender]

some were garbage time TDs

 

There is no such thing as a garbage time TD in fantasy football.

[OCSkins]

keggerz---no, didn't mean to ignore the numbers you shared. They certainly "fit" why he could be ranked where he is. However, I do think that conjecture can't really be factored in. And by "conjecture", I am referring to when you mentioned Cassel getting more familiar with his O and with Chambers alleviating some pressure. You can say similar things about just about every WR that might be ranked below him. Calvin Johnson is a great example. He's down at #27, and I think we'd all admit he's overall a much better WR than Bowe but in the exact same situation, albeit with a lesser QB. But The Huddle got that call right, right?

 

Also keggerz, all stats on NFL.com are all-inclusive for all players. You want to throw out Bowe's bad game in order to make his stats look better. BUT, you'd also have to throw out every other WR's worst game, too. And if you did that, I don't think Bowe ends up at #16.

 

And Slayer---why so angry man? Relax. Yes, I do own Bowe in one league. This is my first year using The Huddle and they've been very, very good to me...except when it comes to Bowe. I just don't understand how they can be so right about so many "iffier" players, but so way off (in my opinion) about a guy who is such an obvious WR3 or WR4. I do use the weekly rankings on here to determine my lineups, and when I use Bowe I end up leaving points on my bench from other WRs.

 

I've tried to trade Bowe, but nobody wants him. I even tried to trade him for a kicker! So if he's so good, then why doesn't anybody want him, including me?

 

I'm just VENTING, ok? Don't take it all so personally. These forums are about voicing opinions.

[kingfish247]

There is no such thing as a garbage time TD in fantasy football.

Yeah, last time I checked a garbage time TD is worth 6 pts just like non-garbage time TDs. If anything, by this logic Bowe is undervalued because as soon as the non-garbage time TDs start coming along with the garbage time TDs, he'll be top 5.

 

OC: It's fine if you're venting but you're posting on The Huddle's public forum. Don't be surprised if you get a few answers to a post in the form of a question. Maybe preface the question with "I'm just ranting here but..." Or better yet, stay off the forum and rant at the wall or a house pet or a coworker or a Big Head version of the targeted player.

[piratesownninjas]

OC: It's fine if you're venting but you're posting on The Huddle's public forum. Don't be surprised if you get a few answers to a post in the form of a question. Maybe preface the question with "I'm just ranting here but..." Or better yet, stay off the forum and rant at the wall or a house pet or a coworker or a Big Head version of the targeted player.

Kind of douchey.

[Company of Heroes]

keggerz---no, didn't mean to ignore the numbers you shared. They certainly "fit" why he could be ranked where he is. However, I do think that conjecture can't really be factored in. And by "conjecture", I am referring to when you mentioned Cassel getting more familiar with his O and with Chambers alleviating some pressure. You can say similar things about just about every WR that might be ranked below him. Calvin Johnson is a great example. He's down at #27, and I think we'd all admit he's overall a much better WR than Bowe but in the exact same situation, albeit with a lesser QB. But The Huddle got that call right, right?

 

I'm just VENTING, ok? Don't take it all so personally. These forums are about voicing opinions.

 

Conjecture HAS to be factored in. Injuries, schedule strength swings, opportunities, etc. all have to be considered and weighed independently. If you are only going based on past production, then why do we pay for the informed opinions of the Huddle instead of simply ranking players by fantasy points scored this season.

 

The Huddle typically drops a good player that has missed games due to injury (Calvin) and their ranking returns to normal as they get healthy and show they have returned to form. Bowe IS healthy now, CJ may not yet be 100%. And Bowe's previous injury is an important factor in his subpar game, as opposed to a player that has struggled (say, Greg Jennings) but has not had an injury.

 

I understand the venting, but...

Edited November 12, 2009 by Company of Heroes

[keggerz]

keggerz---no, didn't mean to ignore the numbers you shared. They certainly "fit" why he could be ranked where he is. However, I do think that conjecture can't really be factored in. And by "conjecture", I am referring to when you mentioned Cassel getting more familiar with his O and with Chambers alleviating some pressure. You can say similar things about just about every WR that might be ranked below him. Calvin Johnson is a great example. He's down at #27, and I think we'd all admit he's overall a much better WR than Bowe but in the exact same situation, albeit with a lesser QB. But The Huddle got that call right, right?

 

Also keggerz, all stats on NFL.com are all-inclusive for all players. You want to throw out Bowe's bad game in order to make his stats look better. BUT, you'd also have to throw out every other WR's worst game, too. And if you did that, I don't think Bowe ends up at #16.

first and foremost YOU are the one that came in here questioning why the huddle has bowe ranked 16th going forward

 

I did a quick look at his stats to see where he currently stands...and of course I didnt include the game he missed in his totals and I did think it was worth removing the 1st game back where he wasnt 100% because that doesnt give a good representation of the type of numbers he has and will put up....doing just that one little thing showed bowe already ranks 16th so it wouldnt be a stretch to expect a healthy bowe to continue with that type of production....then when you factor in the addition of chambers and cassell getting more familiar with the O and it seems like a no brainer to include him in the top 16 going forward...heck he probably should actually be ranked higher when you factor those two things in...but it surely is NOT a stretch to rank him at 16 going forward.

 

and fwiw if there was another WR that definitely had an injury or played thru one and put up poor stats because of it I would be very willing to look at their production less that game if they were now healthy because that would give a much better representation of what their production should be

[OCSkins]

Companyofheroes---I don't consider the things you mentioned to be conjecture, i.e., injuries, schedule strength, opportunities. To me, those are all very real things. It's not "what if" someone gets injured, or "what if" they play the Browns every game the rest of the season. We know if someone's hurt and we know who they're playing each week.

 

But there is no way of knowing if Cassel is going to grasp the O better, and no way of knowing if Chambers is going to play consistently. See my point?

 

kingfish---good suggestion about starting with "I'm just ranting here". Will definitely do that next time....although I thought it was pretty obvious anyway with my use of CAPS and all the exclamation points.

 

And to all you people telling me not to post here or to quit wasting your time, do you even know what a forum is, and its purpose? It certainly isn't to tell people they're wrong or to get upset if they don't agree with you or take your side. Be a little more open-minded to other points of view and understanding of how point/counterpoint "discussions" work.

[keggerz]

But there is no way of knowing if Cassel is going to grasp the O better, and no way of knowing if Chambers is going to play consistently. See my point?

and as I have shown even with Cassel performing as he has and basically without Chambers that Bowe has basically averaged enough PPG to be ranked 16th overall up to this point in the season

 

Be a little more open-minded to other points of view and understanding of how point/counterpoint "discussions" work.

Funny you are telling someone to be something that you yourself are not being

[OCSkins]

keggerz---not trying to argue with you, but you basically just reiterated exactly what you said the first time. You dropped his worst game and skewed his stats to make your argument stronger. That's not fair.

 

And going back to my original post---I was wrong with the Bowe rankings, as I accidentally included TEs & RBs in the search. Going only by WRs, Bowe is tied for #34 in receptions, #35 in yardage, and #37 in yards per game. However, he is tied for #10 in TDs (with 10 other WRs).

 

Greg Jennings is ahead of Bowe in every category I just mentioned, except for TDs bcs he only has 2 compared to Bowe's 4. Jennings has a better QB, better complementary WRs, and a better run game. Yet Jennings comes in at #24 for the rest of season rankings, 8 spots behind Bowe.

 

Maybe I need to figure out how to contact The Huddle staff directly to understand their logic behind Bowe's lofty ranking.

[keggerz]

fwiw Bowe has been targeted the 14th most among WRs the past 4 weeks too and that includes 1 poor 4 target week.

[keggerz]

keggerz---not trying to argue with you, but you basically just reiterated exactly what you said the first time. You dropped his worst game and skewed his stats to make your argument stronger. That's not fair.

 

And going back to my original post---I was wrong with the Bowe rankings, as I accidentally included TEs & RBs in the search. Going only by WRs, Bowe is tied for #34 in receptions, #35 in yardage, and #37 in yards per game. However, he is tied for #10 in TDs (with 10 other WRs).

 

Greg Jennings is ahead of Bowe in every category I just mentioned, except for TDs bcs he only has 2 compared to Bowe's 4. Jennings has a better QB, better complementary WRs, and a better run game. Yet Jennings comes in at #24 for the rest of season rankings, 8 spots behind Bowe.

 

Maybe I need to figure out how to contact The Huddle staff directly to understand their logic behind Bowe's lofty ranking.

i reiterated it because you don't seem to be grasping the reasoning behind it....you started this post talking about Bowe's REST OF SEASON ranking...not his ranking up until this point where he ranks for the season isn't going to give you 100% of the answers to where he will go the rest of the way....so that is why I look to see what he has done...i knew he missed a game with an injury and was close to missing that 2nd game that he ended up playing some in...so in assessing what to expect going forward I see no need to include those two games since he is now healthy

but as I said earlier...your mind is made up so none of this matters

[keggerz]

Greg Jennings is ahead of Bowe in every category I just mentioned, except for TDs bcs he only has 2 compared to Bowe's 4. Jennings has a better QB, better complementary WRs, and a better run game. Yet Jennings comes in at #24 for the rest of season rankings, 8 spots behind Bowe.

I can't speak for Tuvey but the state of the Packers OL probably is a key factor...plus the expected focus that should be put on the running game and the eventual return of Finley to name a few possible reasons

 

ok I am done with this for now as I have to go and finish my article now.

Edited November 12, 2009 by keggerz

[OCSkins]

keggerz, I am totally being open-minded; it's just nobody has presented any concrete stats or facts that could justify Bowe's ranking. You've given one stat based on throwing out his bad game, and given a couple of "what ifs". And the guy plays on one of the worst teams in the league. The Chiefs average 15.8 pts/game, 27th in the league. So it's not like there are a lot of TDs to be had. And they average 162 passing yards a game, 28th in the league. So it's not like there are a lot of yards to go around either. I can keep going and present you with even more reasons why he should be ranked lower, yet you're stubbornly trying to make him out to be some kind of gem!

 

In other words you've given me zip, zero, nada, nothing. Not one good reason to change my mind and accept his valuation; whereas, I've given you at least 5 FACTS as to why he should be ranked lower.

[Company of Heroes]

Companyofheroes---I don't consider the things you mentioned to be conjecture, i.e., injuries, schedule strength, opportunities. To me, those are all very real things. It's not "what if" someone gets injured, or "what if" they play the Browns every game the rest of the season. We know if someone's hurt and we know who they're playing each week.

 

You can quibble about wording to ignore the bigger point, but conjecture (the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof) is required when determining the relevance and weighting of the things I mentioned.

 

In other words you've given me zip, zero, nada, nothing. Not one good reason to change my mind and accept his valuation; whereas, I've given you at least 5 FACTS as to why he should be ranked lower.

 

Geez dude. Your FACTS are WEAK if they disregard his injury, disregard his likely production moving forward, and are based only on season totals to date. We've given you plenty of reasons. Anyone can read a stat sheet of season totals. The fun in FF, for most anyway, is reading between the stats to find more value where others see less and using that knowledge to your advantage.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Company of Heroes

[OCSkins]

My facts are much stronger than anything you guys have presented. Also, have you even bothered to look at his schedule? Games against Pitt, San Diego, Denver, and the Bengals, plus he'll draw Nnamdi Asomugha when they play Oakland this week. Their other 2 games are against the Bills & Browns, so I can see those as being "easy" for Bowe. They play Denver again in Week 17, but my fantasy season ends in Wk 16 so it's irrelevant.

 

So that's 5 games against very, very good defenses.

 

I just think his upside is severely limited moving forward. And nothing he's done in the first half of the season can justify his lofty valuation either. Dim future, unimpressive past.

 

If Bowe were ranked #30 in the rest of season rankings, I wonder.....would anyone create a thread asking why he was ranked so low?

 

Can't wait to revisit this thread at the end of the season to see if all you Bowe lovers were right. Good luck!

[wolfer]

I always looked at Bowe from a 'half glass full' approach. In this case, targets, and a head coach who gets the most of his WRs.

 

Chambers spoiled the garbage time fun this week, hell someone even dressed Chambers on me. Not cool.

 

Anyways, if Bowe continues to trend near top-10 in targets every week, that should translate into top-16 numbers.

 

Personally, I traded Bowe for Kevin Smith 6 weeks ago, right before Bowe's hammy injury. I had similar or better options at WR at the time.

 

I don't trust Bowe, but I know what his upside is...

[Company of Heroes]

My facts are much stronger than anything you guys have presented. Also, have you even bothered to look at his schedule? Games against Pitt, San Diego, Denver, and the Bengals, plus he'll draw Nnamdi Asomugha when they play Oakland this week. Their other 2 games are against the Bills & Browns, so I can see those as being "easy" for Bowe. They play Denver again in Week 17, but my fantasy season ends in Wk 16 so it's irrelevant.

 

This discussion IS actually relevant and would have been a better argument than past production.

 

Can't wait to revisit this thread at the end of the season to see if all you Bowe lovers were right. Good luck!

 

I'm sure you can't wait, since you obviously won't believe it unless you see it. Calling everyone else Bowe lovers just proves our point that your mind was made up already. Name-calling is often a easy way people try to strengthen a poor argument. Unfortunately, you probably will look at season totals instead of weeks 10-16 which is what this is all about.

[kingfish247]

Kind of douchey.

Yeah, I'm the one being douchey in this thread.

[kingfish247]

....

Also, have you even bothered to look at his schedule? Games against Pitt, San Diego, Denver, and the Bengals, plus he'll draw Nnamdi Asomugha when they play Oakland this week. Their other 2 games are against the Bills & Browns, so I can see those as being "easy" for Bowe. They play Denver again in Week 17, but my fantasy season ends in Wk 16 so it's irrelevant.

 

So that's 5 games against very, very good defenses.

...

Actually I have. In a basic performance format, Bowe has exactly one remaining "bad" matchup. And one remaining "good" matchup.

 

Funny enough, the "bad" matchup is one that you cite as an "easy" matchup... BUF.

The "easy" matchup does in fact seem "good"... CLE.

 

The rest are all middle of the pack in defending WRs for FF purposes... including OAK, PIT, SD, DEN, and CIN. Bowe has a decent track record vs his entire division. PIT allows some nice games to WR1s. And CIN is tough but not unbeatable.

 

If you don't like the guy, then fine. Discount where The Huddle has him. The Huddle isn't meant to substitute for your brain in making any and all FF decisions.