BeeR Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 The guy is an ahole IMO but you gotta be kidding me - $250K for flipping someone off?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonkis Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 The guy is an ahole IMO but you gotta be kidding me - $250K for flipping someone off?? As the NFL is a business, he's lucky they don't force him to sell the team. A key employee of mine blew up on a top 5 customer 8 months ago, he was sent packing. There is no excuse for what he did, it was more than childish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 What's with this ghetto thug behavior? I thought it only happened with people like Vick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 The guy is an ahole IMO but you gotta be kidding me - $250K for flipping someone off?? Lets see if I get this right ? Spy gate = $500,000.00 Flipping the bird = $250,000.00 So cheating isn't that much worst than flipping someone off ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 The guy is an ahole IMO but you gotta be kidding me - $250K for flipping someone off??Vick I think had the largest flipping the brid fine at 10k (with another 10k going to a charity). But an owner IMHO is far above a player in the way that they should act. Players are "employees" of the NFL, but the owners are, well, "owners" of the NFL. If it was a gesture in response to a to a single fan that threw an insult to it, I think the fine would have been much less as it would have been a little more "the heat of the moment" But it was the repeated, taunting nature multiple times that drew the big fine. How can the NFL and franchises expect the fans to clean up the game experience if they allow the owners to get away with only a slap on the wrist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) Vick I think had the largest flipping the brid fine at 10k (with another 10k going to a charity). But an owner IMHO is far above a player in the way that they should act. Players are "employees" of the NFL, but the owners are, well, "owners" of the NFL. If it was a gesture in response to a to a single fan that threw an insult to it, I think the fine would have been much less as it would have been a little more "the heat of the moment" But it was the repeated, taunting nature multiple times that drew the big fine. How can the NFL and franchises expect the fans to clean up the game experience if they allow the owners to get away with only a slap on the wrist? because when a 150 year old man does it "it's cute" not offensive Edited November 17, 2009 by MustOfBeenDrunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) As the NFL is a business, he's lucky they don't force him to sell the team. um he owns it; I kinda doubt they could force any such thing. Vick I think had the largest flipping the brid fine at 10k (with another 10k going to a charity). But an owner IMHO is far above a player in the way that they should act. I'm fine w/that but we might differ in how far is "far." I don't agree in the gap represented by 10K vs 250K. It's not like he killed someone/tortured countless thousands of animals/beat up his girlfriend/sold crack/etc etc. How can the NFL and franchises expect the fans to clean up the game experience if they allow the owners to get away with only a slap on the wrist? ? It's not the fans' responsibility to clean up the game, it's the NFL itself (and in fact I'd like to see some of the fans getting fined for similar BS). And yeah, obviously a big part of that is the owners - again not excusing the butthead. But 250K for flipping someone off is IMO pretty ridiculous, esp when you get guys like Haynesworth stomping on someone's head and getting fined FAR less. Basically some seriously f'ed up prioritizations there IMO. Edited November 17, 2009 by BeeR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Lets see if I get this right ? Spy gate = $500,000.00 Flipping the bird = $250,000.00 So cheating isn't that much worst than flipping someone off ? There is a maximum fine of $500k so they couldn't fine him more IIRC had they wanted to. Don't forget the franchise was also fine $250k plus lost their 1st round draft pick since they made the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 ...I missed this story. What is this about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 ...I missed this story. What is this about? Basically, Bud Adams was seen flipping the bird to Bills fans at the end of the game from the owner's box, and repeated doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7y4dZRKVeE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Basically, Bud Adams was seen flipping the bird to Bills fans at the end of the game from the owner's box, and repeated doing it. By the way who was sitting next to Bud Adams for the 1st 45 minutes of the game ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 By the way who was sitting next to Bud Adams for the 1st 45 minutes of the game ?? Goddell. And the flipping was after Goddell left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundhog Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) But 250K for flipping someone off is IMO pretty ridiculous, esp when you get guys like Haynesworth stomping on someone's head and getting fined FAR less. Basically some seriously f'ed up prioritizations there IMO. You can't fine players and owners the same, as the owner making/worth 40x's+ more then even the top paid players, they wouldn't "feel" the fine. What's the point of fining someone, if it doesn't make them think about what they did for next time. A $10k - $50k fine means nothing to someone that is worth multi millions... Edited November 17, 2009 by groundhog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 You can't fine players and owners the same, as the owner making/worth 40x's+ more then even the top paid players, they wouldn't "feel" the fine. What's the point of fining someone, if it doesn't make them think about what they did for next time. A $10k - $50k fine means nothing to someone that is worth multi millions... I have never liked this argument Let's see you cant give someone life in prison if he is already 70 years old because it wouldn't mean as much to him because he only has 10 years left to live anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundhog Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) I have never liked this argument Let's see you cant give someone life in prison if he is already 70 years old because it wouldn't mean as much to him because he only has 10 years left to live anyways This argument doesn't really apply...for one) we're not talking about prison, this is a game...that WAY too many people take WAY to seriously, two) many NFL fines are not dictated by absolutely defined codes and minimums/limits as are laws and punishments in the criminal justice system. Edited November 17, 2009 by groundhog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrudge Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I'm fine w/that but we might differ in how far is "far." I don't agree in the gap represented by 10K vs 250K. It's not like he killed someone/tortured countless thousands of animals/beat up his girlfriend/sold crack/etc etc.[roger goodell]It was my decision to make as to what an appropriate fine amount would be. I don't care what the fans are fine or not fine with.[/roger goodell] But 250K for flipping someone off is IMO pretty ridiculous, esp when you get guys like Haynesworth stomping on someone's head and getting fined FAR less. Basically some seriously f'ed up prioritizations there IMO.I don't think it's a matter of the fine fitting the crime, it's the fine fitting the persons ability to pay. Adams is worth $1.1B. A $10k fine is less then what he blows his nose with. It would do very little to discourage similar events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Why did he do it? I'm assuming the fans somehow provoked this, or his he just an idiot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 hilarious I couldn't stop laughing when the old guy was launching birds out of the owners box!!!! good stuff right there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonkis Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 um he owns it; I kinda doubt they could force any such thing. He owns a franchise, not the NFL. I'm sure they could take more aggressive action if they wanted to. Goodell could have fined him double what he did, no doubt the orgnization could kick him out of their club. I'm not saying that action is justified, it is a different world than most people live in, but he's not above reproach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonkis Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 hilarious I couldn't stop laughing when the old guy was launching birds out of the owners box!!!! good stuff right there It almost looked like he was flipping it with the beat of the music. Crazy ol' basturd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) This argument doesn't really apply...for one) we're not talking about prison, this is a game...that WAY too many people take WAY to seriously, two) many NFL fines are not dictated by absolutely defined codes and minimums/limits as are laws and punishments in the criminal justice system. NFL Fines are set and not random(for the most part) This didnt cut and paste well from the PDF but it does show the fine followed byt he first offense cost and then second offense cost...not sure how or where they pulled the $250K from (gang signing ) From the 2009 Schedule of Fines it looks like he should have been fined $10K Violation First Offense Second Offense Offense Against Game Official A. Physical Contact with Official $25,000 $50,000 B. Verbal or other Non-Physical Offense Against Official $20,000 $40,000 Flagrant Personal Foul Suspension or fine; severity to be determined by degree of violation; the fine may be $10,000 or higher for first offense. Fighting Fighting $10,000 $25,000 Unnecessarily Entering Fight Area (active involvement) $5,000 $10,000 Unnecessarily Entering Fight Area (no active involvement) $2,500 $7,500 Sportsmanship Excessive Profanity; other Unsportsmanlike Conduct (e.g., toward opponent(s), game personnel, fans, etc.) $10,000 $20,000 Taunting $7,500 $10,000 - 18 - Football Into Stands $5,000 $10,000 Uniform Foreign Substances on Body/Uniform $10,000 $15,000 Personal Messages $5,000 $10,000 Chin Straps $7,500 $10,000 (Additional fines may be imposed on team management and coaching staffs for condoning, permitting, etc., violations in this area) Other Uniform/Equipment Violation $5,000 $10,000 On Field Logo Violation Preseason and Regular Season $10,000 $20,000 Playoffs (Including Pro Bowl) $50,000 $75,000 Super Bowl $100,000 Gang Signing Considered conduct detrimental to the League; suspension or fine; severity to be determined in accordance with provisions of the Personal Conduct Policy. Here is the Personal Conduct Policy: - 37 - 2009 Personal Conduct Policy All persons associated with the NFL are required to avoid “conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the National Football League.” This requirement applies to players, coaches, other team employees, owners, game officials and all others privileged to work in the National Football League. For many years, it has been well understood that rules promoting lawful, ethical, and responsible conduct serve the interests of the League, its players, and fans. Illegal or irresponsible conduct does more than simply tarnish the offender. It puts innocent people at risk, sullies the reputation of others involved in the game, and undermines public respect and support for the NFL. Standard of Conduct: While criminal activity is clearly outside the scope of permissible conduct, and persons who engage in criminal activity will be subject to discipline, the standard of conduct for persons employed in the NFL is considerably higher. It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is responsible, promotes the values upon which the League is based, and is lawful. Persons who fail to live up to this standard of conduct are guilty of conduct detrimental and subject to discipline, even where the conduct itself does not result in conviction of a crime. Discipline may be imposed in any of the following circumstances: Criminal offenses including, but not limited to, those involving: the use or threat of violence; domestic violence and other forms of partner abuse; theft and other property crimes; sex offenses; obstruction or resisting arrest; disorderly conduct; fraud; racketeering; and money laundering; Criminal offenses relating to steroids and prohibited substances, or substances of abuse; Violent or threatening behavior among employees, whether in or outside the workplace; Possession of a gun or other weapon in any workplace setting, including but not limited to stadiums, team facilities, training camp, locker rooms, team planes, buses, parking lots, etc., or unlawful possession of a weapon outside of the workplace; - 38 - Conduct that imposes inherent danger to the safety and well being of another person; and Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players. Evaluation, Counseling and Treatment: Apart from any disciplinary action, persons arrested, charged or otherwise appearing to have engaged in conduct prohibited under this policy will be required to undergo a formal clinical evaluation. Based on the results of that evaluation, the person may be encouraged or required to participate in an education program, counseling or other treatment deemed appropriate by health professionals. The evaluation and any resulting counseling or treatment are designed to provide assistance and are not considered discipline; however, the failure to comply with this portion of the Policy shall itself constitute a separate and independent basis for discipline. Discipline: Upon learning of conduct that may give rise to discipline, the League will direct an investigation which may include interviews and information gathering from medical, law enforcement, and other relevant professionals. The League will promptly advise the NFLPA of any investigation of a player, as well as of the results of the investigation. As appropriate, the employee will also have the opportunity, represented by counsel and/or a union official, to address the conduct at issue. Upon conclusion of the investigation, the Commissioner will have full authority to impose discipline as warranted. Discipline may take the form of fines, suspension, or banishment from the League and may include a probationary period and conditions that must be satisfied prior to or following reinstatement. The specifics of the disciplinary response will be based on the nature of the incident, the actual or threatened risk to the participant and others, any prior or additional misconduct (whether or not criminal charges were filed), and other relevant factors. Unless the case involves significant bodily harm, a first offense will generally not result in discipline until there has been a disposition of the proceeding (or until the investigation is complete in the case of employee or workplace misconduct). With respect to repeat offenders, the Commissioner may impose discipline on an expedited basis. In such cases, the timing and nature of the discipline will be determined by the Commissioner based on several factors including but not limited to: the severity of - 39 - the initial charge and later charge; the facts underlying the later charge; the length of time between the initial offense and later charge; and the player or employee’s compliance with counseling and other programs. Following a full investigation and/or resolution of the proceedings, the Commissioner will review the matter and make any appropriate adjustments. Hearing Rights: Following the imposition of discipline, the affected person will have the right to appeal the decision. (For players, discipline imposed during the period beginning with the Hall of Fame Game and ending with the Pro Bowl must be appealed within ten (10) calendar days following the decision.) Persons filing an appeal shall be entitled to a prompt hearing pursuant to Article XI of the Collective Bargaining Agreement and the NFL Constitution and Bylaws, to be conducted by the Commissioner or his designee. In cases involving players, the NFLPA will be entitled to participate in the hearing. Reinstatement: Any person suspended indefinitely or for at least one year may seek reinstatement beginning one month prior to the one-year anniversary of the suspension. As part of his consideration of the application for reinstatement from a player, the Commissioner will seek the views of the NFLPA, Player Advisory Council, and may consult medical, law enforcement, and other relevant professionals. Other Provisions: Covered Persons--This policy applies to all players under contract; all coaches; all game officials; all full-time employees of the NFL, NFL clubs, and all NFL-related entities; all rookie players once they are selected in the NFL college draft; and all undrafted rookie players, unsigned veterans who were under contract in the prior League Year, and other prospective employees once they commence negotiations with a club concerning employment. Clubs are strongly encouraged to communicate this policy to independent contractors and consultants and to make clear that violations of this policy will be grounds for terminating a business relationship. “Disposition of a Criminal Proceeding”--includes an adjudication of guilt or admission to a criminal violation; a plea to a lesser included offense; a plea of nolo - 40 - contendere or no contest; or the acceptance of a diversionary program, deferred adjudication, disposition of supervision, or similar arrangements. “Probationary Period”-- Persons found to have violated this policy may be placed on a period of probation as determined by the Commissioner. During such period, restrictions on certain activities, limitations on participation in Club activities, or other conditions may be imposed. Repeat Offenders-- Persons who have had previous violations of law or of this policy may be considered repeat offenders. When appropriate, conduct occurring prior to the person’s association with the League will be considered. Reporting of Incidents--The League must be advised promptly of any incident that may be a violation of this policy, and particularly when any conduct results in an arrest or other criminal charge. Players and club employees must report any such incident to the club, which must then report it to NFL Security at (800) NFL-1099. Failure to report an incident will constitute conduct detrimental and will be taken into consideration in making disciplinary determination under this policy. Clubs are also required to report incidents that come to their attention. Assistance--Players and employees are encouraged to consult with their Player Development Directors or with the League’s Player and Employee Development Department to obtain access to educational, counseling, and other programs and resources that will help in avoiding misconduct that may result in discipline. Edited November 17, 2009 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 well just realized this is in the paragraph prior to the fines that are listed and probably how they were able to fine him $250K Fines listed are minimums unless otherwise specified. Other forms of discipline, including higher fines, suspension and banishment may also be imposed, based on the circumstances of the particular violation. First offenses are subject to severe discipline up to and including suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonkis Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 well just realized this is in the paragraph prior to the fines that are listed and probably how they were able to fine him $250K Fines listed are minimums unless otherwise specified. Other forms of discipline, including higher fines, suspension and banishment may also be imposed, based on the circumstances of the particular violation. First offenses are subject to severe discipline up to and including suspension. "Check this out, but we can do whatever we want, so be warned!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) This argument doesn't really apply...for one) we're not talking about prison, this is a game...that WAY too many people take WAY to seriously, two) many NFL fines are not dictated by absolutely defined codes and minimums/limits as are laws and punishments in the criminal justice system. Not too often we get to see that many uses of the word(s) to, too, two all at once. (Even if used incorrectly). Is not flipping the bird protected under the 1st Amendment? Edited November 18, 2009 by The Holy Roller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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