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Titans owner fined a quarter mil for flipping the bird?!


BeeR
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The guy is an ahole IMO but you gotta be kidding me - $250K for flipping someone off??

 

 

As the NFL is a business, he's lucky they don't force him to sell the team. A key employee of mine blew up on a top 5 customer 8 months ago, he was sent packing. There is no excuse for what he did, it was more than childish.

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The guy is an ahole IMO but you gotta be kidding me - $250K for flipping someone off??

 

 

Lets see if I get this right ?

Spy gate = $500,000.00

Flipping the bird = $250,000.00

 

So cheating isn't that much worst than flipping someone off ?

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The guy is an ahole IMO but you gotta be kidding me - $250K for flipping someone off??
Vick I think had the largest flipping the brid fine at 10k (with another 10k going to a charity). But an owner IMHO is far above a player in the way that they should act. Players are "employees" of the NFL, but the owners are, well, "owners" of the NFL. If it was a gesture in response to a to a single fan that threw an insult to it, I think the fine would have been much less as it would have been a little more "the heat of the moment" But it was the repeated, taunting nature multiple times that drew the big fine.

 

How can the NFL and franchises expect the fans to clean up the game experience if they allow the owners to get away with only a slap on the wrist?

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Vick I think had the largest flipping the brid fine at 10k (with another 10k going to a charity). But an owner IMHO is far above a player in the way that they should act. Players are "employees" of the NFL, but the owners are, well, "owners" of the NFL. If it was a gesture in response to a to a single fan that threw an insult to it, I think the fine would have been much less as it would have been a little more "the heat of the moment" But it was the repeated, taunting nature multiple times that drew the big fine.

 

How can the NFL and franchises expect the fans to clean up the game experience if they allow the owners to get away with only a slap on the wrist?

 

 

because when a 150 year old man does it "it's cute" not offensive

Edited by MustOfBeenDrunk
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As the NFL is a business, he's lucky they don't force him to sell the team.

um he owns it; I kinda doubt they could force any such thing.

 

 

Vick I think had the largest flipping the brid fine at 10k (with another 10k going to a charity). But an owner IMHO is far above a player in the way that they should act.
I'm fine w/that but we might differ in how far is "far." I don't agree in the gap represented by 10K vs 250K. It's not like he killed someone/tortured countless thousands of animals/beat up his girlfriend/sold crack/etc etc.

 

How can the NFL and franchises expect the fans to clean up the game experience if they allow the owners to get away with only a slap on the wrist?

? It's not the fans' responsibility to clean up the game, it's the NFL itself (and in fact I'd like to see some of the fans getting fined for similar BS). And yeah, obviously a big part of that is the owners - again not excusing the butthead. But 250K for flipping someone off is IMO pretty ridiculous, esp when you get guys like Haynesworth stomping on someone's head and getting fined FAR less. Basically some seriously f'ed up prioritizations there IMO.

Edited by BeeR
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Lets see if I get this right ?

Spy gate = $500,000.00

Flipping the bird = $250,000.00

 

So cheating isn't that much worst than flipping someone off ?

There is a maximum fine of $500k so they couldn't fine him more IIRC had they wanted to. Don't forget the franchise was also fine $250k plus lost their 1st round draft pick since they made the playoffs.
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But 250K for flipping someone off is IMO pretty ridiculous, esp when you get guys like Haynesworth stomping on someone's head and getting fined FAR less. Basically some seriously f'ed up prioritizations there IMO.

 

 

You can't fine players and owners the same, as the owner making/worth 40x's+ more then even the top paid players, they wouldn't "feel" the fine. What's the point of fining someone, if it doesn't make them think about what they did for next time. A $10k - $50k fine means nothing to someone that is worth multi millions...

Edited by groundhog
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You can't fine players and owners the same, as the owner making/worth 40x's+ more then even the top paid players, they wouldn't "feel" the fine. What's the point of fining someone, if it doesn't make them think about what they did for next time. A $10k - $50k fine means nothing to someone that is worth multi millions...

 

 

I have never liked this argument

 

Let's see you cant give someone life in prison if he is already 70 years old because it wouldn't mean as much to him because he only has 10 years left to live anyways

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I have never liked this argument

 

Let's see you cant give someone life in prison if he is already 70 years old because it wouldn't mean as much to him because he only has 10 years left to live anyways

 

 

This argument doesn't really apply...for one) we're not talking about prison, this is a game...that WAY too many people take WAY to seriously, two) many NFL fines are not dictated by absolutely defined codes and minimums/limits as are laws and punishments in the criminal justice system.

Edited by groundhog
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I'm fine w/that but we might differ in how far is "far." I don't agree in the gap represented by 10K vs 250K. It's not like he killed someone/tortured countless thousands of animals/beat up his girlfriend/sold crack/etc etc.
[roger goodell]It was my decision to make as to what an appropriate fine amount would be. I don't care what the fans are fine or not fine with.[/roger goodell]

 

But 250K for flipping someone off is IMO pretty ridiculous, esp when you get guys like Haynesworth stomping on someone's head and getting fined FAR less. Basically some seriously f'ed up prioritizations there IMO.
I don't think it's a matter of the fine fitting the crime, it's the fine fitting the persons ability to pay. Adams is worth $1.1B. A $10k fine is less then what he blows his nose with. It would do very little to discourage similar events.
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um he owns it; I kinda doubt they could force any such thing.

 

He owns a franchise, not the NFL. I'm sure they could take more aggressive action if they wanted to. Goodell could have fined him double what he did, no doubt the orgnization could kick him out of their club.

 

I'm not saying that action is justified, it is a different world than most people live in, but he's not above reproach.

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This argument doesn't really apply...for one) we're not talking about prison, this is a game...that WAY too many people take WAY to seriously, two) many NFL fines are not dictated by absolutely defined codes and minimums/limits as are laws and punishments in the criminal justice system.

:wacko:

 

NFL Fines are set and not random(for the most part)

This didnt cut and paste well from the PDF but it does show the fine followed byt he first offense cost and then second offense cost...not sure how or where they pulled the $250K from (gang signing :D )

From the 2009 Schedule of Fines it looks like he should have been fined $10K

 

Violation First Offense Second Offense

Offense Against Game Official

A. Physical Contact with Official $25,000 $50,000

B. Verbal or other Non-Physical Offense

Against Official

$20,000 $40,000

Flagrant Personal Foul Suspension or fine; severity to be determined

by degree of violation; the fine may be

$10,000 or higher for first offense.

Fighting

Fighting $10,000 $25,000

Unnecessarily Entering Fight Area

(active involvement)

$5,000 $10,000

Unnecessarily Entering Fight Area

(no active involvement)

$2,500 $7,500

Sportsmanship

Excessive Profanity; other Unsportsmanlike

Conduct (e.g., toward opponent(s), game

personnel, fans, etc.)

$10,000 $20,000

Taunting $7,500 $10,000

- 18 -

Football Into Stands $5,000 $10,000

Uniform

Foreign Substances on Body/Uniform $10,000 $15,000

Personal Messages $5,000 $10,000

Chin Straps $7,500 $10,000

(Additional fines may be imposed on team management and coaching staffs for condoning,

permitting, etc., violations in this area)

Other Uniform/Equipment Violation $5,000 $10,000

On Field Logo Violation

Preseason and Regular Season $10,000 $20,000

Playoffs (Including Pro Bowl) $50,000 $75,000

Super Bowl $100,000

Gang Signing Considered conduct detrimental to the

League; suspension or fine; severity to be

determined in accordance with provisions of

the Personal Conduct Policy.

 

Here is the Personal Conduct Policy:

 

- 37 -

2009

Personal Conduct Policy

All persons associated with the NFL are required to avoid “conduct detrimental to

the integrity of and public confidence in the National Football League.” This requirement

applies to players, coaches, other team employees, owners, game officials and all others

privileged to work in the National Football League.

For many years, it has been well understood that rules promoting lawful, ethical,

and responsible conduct serve the interests of the League, its players, and fans. Illegal or

irresponsible conduct does more than simply tarnish the offender. It puts innocent people

at risk, sullies the reputation of others involved in the game, and undermines public

respect and support for the NFL.

Standard of Conduct:

While criminal activity is clearly outside the scope of permissible conduct, and

persons who engage in criminal activity will be subject to discipline, the standard of

conduct for persons employed in the NFL is considerably higher. It is not enough simply

to avoid being found guilty of a crime. Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member

club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is

responsible, promotes the values upon which the League is based, and is lawful.

Persons who fail to live up to this standard of conduct are guilty of conduct

detrimental and subject to discipline, even where the conduct itself does not result in

conviction of a crime. Discipline may be imposed in any of the following circumstances:

 Criminal offenses including, but not limited to, those involving: the use or threat of

violence; domestic violence and other forms of partner abuse; theft and other

property crimes; sex offenses; obstruction or resisting arrest; disorderly conduct;

fraud; racketeering; and money laundering;

 Criminal offenses relating to steroids and prohibited substances, or substances of

abuse;

 Violent or threatening behavior among employees, whether in or outside the

workplace;

 Possession of a gun or other weapon in any workplace setting, including but not

limited to stadiums, team facilities, training camp, locker rooms, team planes,

buses, parking lots, etc., or unlawful possession of a weapon outside of the

workplace;

- 38 -

 Conduct that imposes inherent danger to the safety and well being of another

person; and

 Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL,

NFL clubs, or NFL players.

Evaluation, Counseling and Treatment:

Apart from any disciplinary action, persons arrested, charged or otherwise

appearing to have engaged in conduct prohibited under this policy will be required to

undergo a formal clinical evaluation. Based on the results of that evaluation, the person

may be encouraged or required to participate in an education program, counseling or

other treatment deemed appropriate by health professionals. The evaluation and any

resulting counseling or treatment are designed to provide assistance and are not

considered discipline; however, the failure to comply with this portion of the Policy shall

itself constitute a separate and independent basis for discipline.

Discipline:

Upon learning of conduct that may give rise to discipline, the League will direct an

investigation which may include interviews and information gathering from medical, law

enforcement, and other relevant professionals. The League will promptly advise the

NFLPA of any investigation of a player, as well as of the results of the investigation. As

appropriate, the employee will also have the opportunity, represented by counsel and/or a

union official, to address the conduct at issue. Upon conclusion of the investigation, the

Commissioner will have full authority to impose discipline as warranted.

Discipline may take the form of fines, suspension, or banishment from the League

and may include a probationary period and conditions that must be satisfied prior to or

following reinstatement. The specifics of the disciplinary response will be based on the

nature of the incident, the actual or threatened risk to the participant and others, any

prior or additional misconduct (whether or not criminal charges were filed), and other

relevant factors.

Unless the case involves significant bodily harm, a first offense will generally not

result in discipline until there has been a disposition of the proceeding (or until the

investigation is complete in the case of employee or workplace misconduct).

With respect to repeat offenders, the Commissioner may impose discipline on an

expedited basis. In such cases, the timing and nature of the discipline will be determined

by the Commissioner based on several factors including but not limited to: the severity of

- 39 -

the initial charge and later charge; the facts underlying the later charge; the length of

time between the initial offense and later charge; and the player or employee’s

compliance with counseling and other programs. Following a full investigation and/or

resolution of the proceedings, the Commissioner will review the matter and make any

appropriate adjustments.

Hearing Rights:

Following the imposition of discipline, the affected person will have the right to

appeal the decision. (For players, discipline imposed during the period beginning with the

Hall of Fame Game and ending with the Pro Bowl must be appealed within ten (10)

calendar days following the decision.) Persons filing an appeal shall be entitled to a

prompt hearing pursuant to Article XI of the Collective Bargaining Agreement and the NFL

Constitution and Bylaws, to be conducted by the Commissioner or his designee. In cases

involving players, the NFLPA will be entitled to participate in the hearing.

Reinstatement:

Any person suspended indefinitely or for at least one year may seek reinstatement

beginning one month prior to the one-year anniversary of the suspension. As part of his

consideration of the application for reinstatement from a player, the Commissioner will

seek the views of the NFLPA, Player Advisory Council, and may consult medical, law

enforcement, and other relevant professionals.

Other Provisions:

Covered Persons--This policy applies to all players under contract; all coaches; all

game officials; all full-time employees of the NFL, NFL clubs, and all NFL-related entities;

all rookie players once they are selected in the NFL college draft; and all undrafted rookie

players, unsigned veterans who were under contract in the prior League Year, and other

prospective employees once they commence negotiations with a club concerning

employment. Clubs are strongly encouraged to communicate this policy to independent

contractors and consultants and to make clear that violations of this policy will be grounds

for terminating a business relationship.

“Disposition of a Criminal Proceeding”--includes an adjudication of guilt or

admission to a criminal violation; a plea to a lesser included offense; a plea of nolo

- 40 -

contendere or no contest; or the acceptance of a diversionary program, deferred

adjudication, disposition of supervision, or similar arrangements.

“Probationary Period”-- Persons found to have violated this policy may be placed on

a period of probation as determined by the Commissioner. During such period,

restrictions on certain activities, limitations on participation in Club activities, or other

conditions may be imposed.

Repeat Offenders-- Persons who have had previous violations of law or of this

policy may be considered repeat offenders. When appropriate, conduct occurring prior to

the person’s association with the League will be considered.

Reporting of Incidents--The League must be advised promptly of any incident that

may be a violation of this policy, and particularly when any conduct results in an arrest or

other criminal charge. Players and club employees must report any such incident to the

club, which must then report it to NFL Security at (800) NFL-1099. Failure to report an

incident will constitute conduct detrimental and will be taken into consideration in making

disciplinary determination under this policy. Clubs are also required to report incidents

that come to their attention.

Assistance--Players and employees are encouraged to consult with their Player

Development Directors or with the League’s Player and Employee Development

Department to obtain access to educational, counseling, and other programs and

resources that will help in avoiding misconduct that may result in discipline.

Edited by keggerz
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well just realized this is in the paragraph prior to the fines that are listed and probably how they were able to fine him $250K

 

Fines listed are minimums unless otherwise specified. Other forms of discipline, including

higher fines, suspension and banishment may also be imposed, based on the circumstances of

the particular violation. First offenses are subject to severe discipline up to and including

suspension.

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well just realized this is in the paragraph prior to the fines that are listed and probably how they were able to fine him $250K

 

Fines listed are minimums unless otherwise specified. Other forms of discipline, including

higher fines, suspension and banishment may also be imposed, based on the circumstances of

the particular violation. First offenses are subject to severe discipline up to and including

suspension.

 

 

:wacko: "Check this out, but we can do whatever we want, so be warned!"

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This argument doesn't really apply...for one) we're not talking about prison, this is a game...that WAY too many people take WAY to seriously, two) many NFL fines are not dictated by absolutely defined codes and minimums/limits as are laws and punishments in the criminal justice system.

 

Not too often we get to see that many uses of the word(s) to, too, two all at once. (Even if used incorrectly). :wacko:

 

Is not flipping the bird protected under the 1st Amendment?

Edited by The Holy Roller
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