The Rooney Rule

[Cowboyz1]

The Rooney Rule is a complete joke and mochary to every single working person. Hey, you're black, lets interview you! That is a horrible approach. It doesn't eliminate prejudice, it only encourages it. If you want to get people in there to get there name out to the NFL ball clubs with no expectations of getting the job- then go find that bum on the streets and give him a shot. Go to that winning high school coach and interview him! Heck, lets interview a woman, they seem to have zero existance in the NFL. COME ON PEOPLE. Open your eyes. No one cares about you except your mother. If you want to get your name known, or get experience, create opportunity yourself. Make a name for yourself and build a network. Dont use your color to do it for you. Shouldnt a qualified but over looked white male be given a shot too even though he isnt "known". It makes little to zero sense.

 

 

Spoken like a true anglo........You know you have had it that way since the existance of the NFL and because of the Rooney Rule you have Marv Lewis and Romeo Cornell and the likes. It took Men like Art Rooney and Doug Williams and Gale Sayers and the likes just to break into the "good ole boy" network. You really think they were the only ones qulified to play or coach in the NFL for the last 50 yesrs. Please, you are niave to think that blacks had the chance to be players much less coaches in this league early on. You think that was because they were not as qualified as their white couter parts? I think not as you see now that there presents dominates the field now due to their qualifications. However, where is that representation at senior management? If you have any brain at all you realize that White America owned most all the financial resources in this country unitl about 1950. That's right 1950. So in while whites have had over 200 years to aquire weath and the "network" you so apply stated that would enable one to have the resources to own and manage sports fanchises, we have had say less then 40 yesrs. So without forced intergation and forced changes in hiring practices things would have gone on as they always had. Now i can see why SOME whites would be upset about the new competition and the recent success minorities have had in Politics, Sports, and management, because they like the old system, but to say that it is now and equal playing field is far from the truth. Tell you what, you give me your son and I will take him to some remote island and give him no access to education, tell him he is inferior to others, beat him like a drum and then bring him back to the U.S. and tell him go for it, be what you want to be and see how far he gets. Maybe his son will become something but I suspect he will have a difficult time fitting in and becoming sucessful.

 

Funny how we support farm price supports for the South "white peoples welfare" which costs as much if not more then our private welfare system but no one fights that. We pay white southerners to not grow on their land, in the name of farm price supports and to predominately white people but you don't see people up in arms about that.

 

I would have nothing to say about affirmative action or any other minority program had the playing field had been level fromt the start. But because of what whites fathers fathers did to a group of people in this country, it was obviously not. In fact, even black athletes on pro teams could not sleep in the the same hotels or eat at the same resturants with thier fellow teamates. Was that fair? Your not crying about that now are you. But because the U.S. and good men want to claim responcibility for those attrocities and make reporations, you whine about how that's not fair. Or say hey that happened in the past and everyone should just forget about it and move on. Fine, let's forget and that means you too. I would love to but I can't because this country reminds me every day about what color I am. If your really think that all it takes in this country is to work hard and make a good name for yourself regardless of your color, I would be glad to take you to the south with me and go job hunting and out to eat and out to drink for a weekend to open your eyes a bit to reality. My suggestion to you is find a black open minded individual and test your theory with him in a week end but I bet you don't have the time or the desire to discover the truth.One weekend is all it would take.

 

That said, don't get me wrong, I have been amazed at how far this country has come and their are now more and more citizens that do for the most part see people for who they are and not the color of their skin as evidenced by our new Black president. But don't for one minute think that all is well. Even our President gets reminded of the past all the time with comments and cartoons by some of the most powerfull and influencial organizations and indiviuals in the country. So don't sit their and tell me that racism is over and there is no need to put or keep in place rules that foster fairness in hiring practices. Because without those measures in place things would be much worse, much worse and if you don't see that then you don't want too.

 

By the way, do you even know what affirmative action stands for and why is was put in place?

 

Let me give you a hint, "Affimative" meaning affirming the fact that racism did and does exist. "Action" take steps to make reporations for the effect of discrimination and racism. So what part of this do not agree with? Either you don't agree that there was racism in hiring, which would be ignorant or you don't think we shoud do anything about it, which would be calous. Or maybe you have your own ideas about what should be done, if so let's here it instead of bashing what is being done. Enlighten us in your wisdom as how to solve a problem that has obviously existed.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Cowboyz1

[Cunning Runt]

Now i can see why whites would be upset about the new competition and the recent success minorities have had in Politics, Sports, and management, .....

 

Dude, you lose a lot of credibility in my book when you make comments like this one.

[Cowboyz1]

Dude, you lose a lot of credibility in my book when you make comments like this one.

 

 

Come on, you serious, I am not talking about many even a majority of people who are solid individuals that don't aspire to racism, I am talking about those that make comments about how whites are becoming victims of laws and rules that try to help. You know as well as I do there are groups that claim affirmative action and such are making them suffer. At least you have to acknowlege that. Those are the people I was directing that too. So how was that not accurate? I am not trying to be offensive just point out the facts. Neo Nazis for example say that very thing as do many other groups. They think they are being reversely discriminated because they are white. Now come on, that is down right rediculous. There are those that don't like the fact that Blacks can and do compete in the same markets, now that is just a fact, so how do I lose credibility by pointing that out? I didn't say everyone, or a majority but I do notice that those that think that way aren't sqashed, or spoken out agaisnt with the same vigor as they do Affirmative Action programs and such. Now isn't that a fact?

Edited January 13, 2010 by Cowboyz1

[Cunning Runt]

Come on, you serious, I am not talking about many even a majority of people who are solid individuals that don't aspire to racism, I am talking about those that make comments about how whites are becoming victims of laws and rules that try to help. You know as well as I do there are groups that claim affirmative action and such are making them suffer. At least you have to acknowlege that. Those are the people I was directing that too. So how was that not accurate? I am not trying to be offensive just point out the facts. Neo Nazis for example say that very thing as do many other groups. They think they are being reversely discriminated because they are white. Now come on, that is down right rediculous.

 

I agree with that, but you stereotyped "whites" in a pretty broad stroke the way you wrote it.

[Cowboyz1]

I agree with that, but you stereotyped "whites" in a pretty broad stroke the way you wrote it.

 

Fair enough, that wasn't my intention, so thanks for pointing that out so I could clarify. I can see how that could have been interpreted that way so thanks.. I corrected it.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Cowboyz1

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Or maybe you have your own ideas about what should be done

 

So let's say the Browns decided to fire Mangini and they wanted to hire either Cowher or Chucky. They really like both of these guys and are determined to have one of them coach their team next year. Why do they have to drag Dungy in for an interview?

[Cowboyz1]

So let's say the Browns decided to fire Mangini and they wanted to hire either Cowher or Chucky. They really like both of these guys and are determined to have one of them coach their team next year. Why do they have to drag Dungy in for an interview?

 

 

They wouln't have to if they would have interviewed qualified minority coaches in the past, and not discriminated against them and shown without this rule they would continue to exact the same discriminatory behavior, esentially saying there are no and have been no qualified black coaches, which we all know isn't true. So now, absent of a better way of doing it we have the Rooney Rule. It's not perfec but what is? You have a solution then right it up and I am sure they will consider it. I wish it didn't come to that either but what else do you do besides nothing and hope they change on their own, which historically doesn't happen.

[westvirginia]

Come on, you serious, I am not talking about many even a majority of people who are solid individuals that don't aspire to racism, I am talking about those that make comments about how whites are becoming victims of laws and rules that try to help. You know as well as I do there are groups that claim affirmative action and such are making them suffer. At least you have to acknowlege that. Those are the people I was directing that too. So how was that not accurate? I am not trying to be offensive just point out the facts. Neo Nazis for example say that very thing as do many other groups. They think they are being reversely discriminated because they are white. Now come on, that is down right rediculous. There are those that don't like the fact that Blacks can and do compete in the same markets, now that is just a fact, so how do I lose credibility by pointing that out? I didn't say everyone, or a majority but I do notice that those that think that way aren't sqashed, or spoken out agaisnt with the same vigor as they do Affirmative Action programs and such. Now isn't that a fact?

 

This is where it runs afoul for me. There was a highly publicized case of firefighters recently. There was also cases at U of Michigan. There are "anglos" (your word - not mine) that are being denied opportunities because of these laws. The question then becomes, is it wrong to discriminate based on skin - or just wrong if it's being done to people having the same skin as you?

 

Personally, I think if you want to open a business that employs only blacks, and Dawg Talk wants to open a business that employs only whites, you should both be able too. Of course I have a right to not patronize either place. (Government is another story entirely).

[Kid Cid]

As unfortunate as it is, I think that there is still a need for the Rooney Rule in professional football. The NFL is really an old boys network and nothing would have changed were it not for this rule. Yes, The Skins and Seahawks made a token interview and that is about what I would expect from both of those "gentlemen". This just serves to reinforce why the Rule is still needed.

[Cowboyz1]

This is where it runs afoul for me. There was a highly publicized case of firefighters recently. There was also cases at U of Michigan. There are "anglos" (your word - not mine) that are being denied opportunities because of these laws. The question then becomes, is it wrong to discriminate based on skin - or just wrong if it's being done to people having the same skin as you?

 

Personally, I think if you want to open a business that employs only blacks, and Dawg Talk wants to open a business that employs only whites, you should both be able too. Of course I have a right to not patronize either place. (Government is another story entirely).

 

All you have to do is look at the statistics and it will become blatatly obvious that those cases are have very little if any effect on the mass population in the U.S. with regards to availabe jobs for whites. It is wrong to discriminate based on skin that is precisely what has happened though and you and I both know that. So is it discrimination to inforce or enact rules and laws to make reporations for this past discriminitory behaivor that we both know and affirm took place? I don't agree that we should have these laws either but unless we come up with a better way to do it then what is left? I hate it when we complain about the laws and rules that are in effect but knowone and I mean knowone comes up with a better way to do it that works better then what is in place now. If you have a better way then lets hear it. But don't just slam what we are doing and say it's not fair we should get rid of it without a better plan.

 

Yes you should be able to start a business and hire who you want to. However, the flaw in that system is that would you feel the same if you where the minority in power and you had to feed your family and none of the majority race wanted to hire you. Which is exactly what was and still does happen in certain places in the U.S. So I suspect your answer would be to move your family to a place that will hire you or is more open to hiring you right? So my responce is the same to those that you mentioned above at the University and Firefighters as I am sure there are 100 times the locals they could move to then a black family in similar circumstances. But then you would say that isnt' fair either, Right? Fact is racism effects us all and the more we all stand up against it the better we all are. Untitl then we have to find a way to insure all of our citizens, black, white or funny lookin, have the freedom to persue their dreams without racist behavior. So come up with a better way and we will use it but don't just say do nothing and undue what is working now. I give you it is not the best way but until we find another what other choice do we have but to do nothing and that is not a option, Right?

[westvirginia]

All you have to do is look at the statistics and it will become blatatly obvious that those cases are have very little if any effect on the mass population in the U.S. with regards to availabe jobs for whites. It is wrong to discriminate based on skin that is precisely what has happened though and you and I both know that. So is it discrimination to inforce or enact rules and laws to make reporations for this past discriminitory behaivor that we both know and affirm took place? I don't agree that we should have these laws either but unless we come up with a better way to do it then what is left? I hate it when we complain about the laws and rules that are in effect but knowone and I mean knowone comes up with a better way to do it that works better then what is in place now. If you have a better way then lets hear it. But don't just slam what we are doing and say it's not fair we should get rid of it without a better plan.

 

Yes you should be able to start a business and hire who you want to. However, the flaw in that system is that would you feel the same if you where the minority in power and you had to feed your family and none of the majority race wanted to hire you. Which is exactly what was and still does happen in certain places in the U.S. So I suspect your answer would be to move your family to a place that will hire you or is more open to hiring you right? So my responce is the same to those that you mentioned above at the University and Firefighters as I am sure there are 100 times the locals they could move to then a black family in similar circumstances. But then you would say that isnt' fair either, Right? Fact is racism effects us all and the more we all stand up against it the better we all are. Untitl then we have to find a way to insure all of our citizens, black, white or funny lookin, have the freedom to persue their dreams without racist behavior. So come up with a better way and we will use it but don't just say do nothing and undue what is working now. I give you it is not the best way but until we find another what other choice do we have but to do nothing and that is not a option, Right?

 

My point is we have a choice not to do it. Period. If it's wrong then it's wrong. Those firefighters don't care about statistics. The students didn't care about statistics. It was wrong happening to them just like it would be wrong happening to you.

[Cowboyz1]

My point is we have a choice not to do it. Period. If it's wrong then it's wrong. Those firefighters don't care about statistics. The students didn't care about statistics. It was wrong happening to them just like it would be wrong happening to you.

 

 

So there you have it, two wrongs don't make a right! So I guess the problem is unsolveable, now what?

 

Let's look at it from another perspective. What is the long term effect on the Whites that don't get in to their preferred University or don't get that firefighting job. Verses what is the long term effect on doing nothing and denying that Minority from the University or that firefighters job. It is a proven fact that the opportunities are less for minorities to get into schools and jobs. Remember, that that Black applicant for the university may be the first in their families history to go to college. Remember it was just the past 40 years that Blacks where able to apply to most of the colleges in the U.S. Think about this, this is the first generation in many black families to pass anything down in the form of education or wealth. The first generation. Think about that. My father is the first to graduate college and the first to have any assets to pass down to his children. Because prior to him, my fathers father was in N.C. and had very little opportunity to get anywhere. We are only a generation away from my father having to go into the back door of a shoe store after business ours to buy shoes because his father knew the owner. But they couldn't try the shoes on first because they were not able to be sold again to white customers after they have been on a black foot. So my point is this. To deny that one minority from college may be devistating as he or she may be the first in a generation to get there. While his or her white counterpart has had a 200 year support structure to insure that they will get other opportunities. Same with the Firefighter.

 

We all have to understand that history has made it difficult for all of us but what you must remember is that our white forefathers where the ones that caused this problem in the first place. And it was Blacks, Chinese, Irish and Mexicans that built this country under a whip and chains, while earning NOTHING. So it seems only decent to try and make restitution for those acts and help reverse the effects of that. Yes, some will get jobs that others want, but evil and wrongfull acts have a price. I think we paid our dues and helped make this country for what it is now, while enduring sick living conditions, so it stands to reason there should be some reward for that effort don't you think? It would be nice if a person said, you know what, take my place, you've earned it. But we are not that nice are we. So we have to say you will provide a place for qualified minorities, after all we have denied them long enough and they had to overcome a lot to get there. Now some of you don't see it as a problem at all. But most of us do. So the question still remains, what do we do about it? While nothing isn't a realistic option.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Cowboyz1

[DawgTalk]

WOW. You must live in a bubble of "victim" just like so many people find themselves in. Everyone is a victim. Explain to me how QUOTAS have to be filled within corporations? Let's investigate why there isn't the same amount of white RBs as there are black. Or why there isnt as many black QBs at there are whites. The best player gets the job! Same as the coaches. Prove and market yourself just like anyone else. Stop asking things to be handed to you. What ever happend to the best man for the job approach. Im sure people ignore the white male being passed over for the female or minority. Over 60 years have passed by since the days of Gale Sayers. Get out of the past. God bless the people that had to go through the hatred and tourmenting.

 

I grew up in the inner city, at no point was I given anything. I had just as much opportunity for success as the next person.

 

I think the real problem here is the fact that social classes are what clashes opposed to races.

[Cowboyz1]

Realy the only fair way to do this is to go back and discover every man, woman and child that worked for free and add all the earned wages since slavery, and pay all the surviving familys what they earned. Clear the records of all racist convictions and pardon all that broke racist laws. Educate all the minorites to the level they would have been had they had access to schools from the time of slavery. Convict every person who owned slaves so that there name will refect a federal crime. Give back all land sieze from black settlers. Convict every person that legally at the time linched a black man. Make joining the Neo Nazi's or KKK a terrorist act punishable as such. Hunt down the KKK and others organization like it, while doing the same for any organizations that preach hate and violence black white or funny lookin.

 

I mean we can go on and on if we really want to be fair but what a job that would be and so unrealistic.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Cowboyz1

[DawgTalk]

The real problem, acting as the victim and being handed things.

 

Martin Luther King- "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

 

You think he meant you should be handed things, or to be judge by the content of their character? Hey, by the way, this forefather crap, doesnt not apply to almost every person that now lives here. Get over it. I had nothing to do with your ancestors enslavery. Grandmother moved here. The other side of the family great grandmother. Heck, college wasnt big until just the past 30 yrs. Hell, I'm the first generation of my family to even go to college. So why do you get extra treatment? Just cause I'm white, doesnt mean I had any extra special treatment. We all have it hard. Last time I checked, business people just want to make money. They will hire for best person and could care less if you are black or white. The key to this, by creating affirmative action you are creating a prejudice within a prejudice. You are saying here is an extra opportunity because well, I dont think you are capable of creating one yourself.

 

Just because you grew up black and me white, doesnt mean I have ever been more or less "limited" than you. It is VERY wrong to classify all people are white or black. It all goes back to social classes. That is where the true advantage of opportunity exists. Not whether you are black or white.

[Cowboyz1]

WOW. You must live in a bubble of "victim" just like so many people find themselves in. Everyone is a victim. Explain to me how QUOTAS have to be filled within corporations? Let's investigate why there isn't the same amount of white RBs as there are black. Or why there isnt as many black QBs at there are whites. The best player gets the job! Same as the coaches. Prove and market yourself just like anyone else. Stop asking things to be handed to you. What ever happend to the best man for the job approach. Im sure people ignore the white male being passed over for the female or minority. Over 60 years have passed by since the days of Gale Sayers. Get out of the past. God bless the people that had to go through the hatred and tourmenting.

 

I grew up in the inner city, at no point was I given anything. I had just as much opportunity for success as the next person.

 

I think the real problem here is the fact that social classes are what clashes opposed to races.

 

 

I don't concider myself a victim at all. In fact, I am pretty much a silver spooner thanks to my mom and dad. I am fortunate, very fortunate to have been raised with all the right support. However, my mother is a teacher of Social Studies and she taught me a lot about this country. I also did a mini thesis on the plight of the American Minority which included all minorites in this country. In doing so I came accross a lot of facts and ideology that support what I am saying here. You say 60 years but that is my fathers age so for him it is very real and I see it in him daily. I don't want anything for nothing, never have but I do know this, there are many minorities that didn't have my fortunate up bringing and a "God Bless" jesture doesn't solve the problems that have to face now or in the past.

 

I totally agree with you about he best man or woman for the job and if that were the world we live in then there wouldn't be a problem at all and I wouldn't be writing this. But there is and has been a problem so that is what we are addressing here.

 

As far as corporate Quotas let me say this. If you were the dominate employer in your city or town and you employ say 400 people and your population is 80,10,5,5. So 80% white, 10% black, 5% Hispanic and 5% all other of qualified employable applicants. But your employee demo is 99% white and 1% everyone else. That tells me this. Your company has issues. Why because your saying to either two things. that either the 20%, haven't applied or you don't hire them . I don't believe the 20% has not applied. So that leaves you don't hire them. Why? you don't want them working there? Why? depending on your answer we as a sociaty have to determine what to do about it. Historically it is because of discrimination so in order to stop your behaviour that most of us don't want in our society we have to institute laws that prevent you from continuing to discriminate because those individuals need to make a living also. And that is exactly why we have Affirmative Action programs to stop this very practice that hurts us all.

 

Now some day we may grow enough to not need them, but we haven't yet because the numbers don't lie.

 

I aggree with you about the social classes clashing 100% which is another factor in all of this.

 

I am so glad we can have this discussion and share opinions in this way. Everyone here has been great and this is exactly the kind of dialog between us that fosters deeper understanding about eachother. The fac that we can disuss this without it turning ugly means we have come a long way and I am proud to see this. Truthfully, I am proud of America and how it has tried to come together and create a true land of opportunity for everyone.

 

I think Europe is ahead of us on Social issues but we have had some very positive growth here in the U.S. I don't discount the fact that white America elected Obama and that is very telling about how far we have come.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Cowboyz1

[Cowboyz1]

The real problem, acting as the victim and being handed things.

 

Martin Luther King- "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

 

You think he meant you should be handed things, or to be judge by the content of their character? Hey, by the way, this forefather crap, doesnt not apply to almost every person that now lives here. Get over it. I had nothing to do with your ancestors enslavery. Grandmother moved here. The other side of the family great grandmother. Heck, college wasnt big until just the past 30 yrs. Hell, I'm the first generation of my family to even go to college. So why do you get extra treatment? Just cause I'm white, doesnt mean I had any extra special treatment. We all have it hard. Last time I checked, business people just want to make money. They will hire for best person and could care less if you are black or white. The key to this, by creating affirmative action you are creating a prejudice within a prejudice. You are saying here is an extra opportunity because well, I dont think you are capable of creating one yourself.

 

Just because you grew up black and me white, doesnt mean I have ever been more or less "limited" than you. It is VERY wrong to classify all people are white or black. It all goes back to social classes. That is where the true advantage of opportunity exists. Not whether you are black or white.

 

 

Nobody and I mean Nobody with any self respect wants to be handed anything. We are talking about qualified individuals that have worked very hard to be in the position to apply for the said positon. Both black and white. So let's for the sake of argument say they look at both and they are equally qualified so there is no difference between them. Historically the white would get the job without exception. So if that continues how does the Black ever get hired? That is what we are dealing with. Statistics show they are hired less often and earn less. So how do you stop this?

 

You give me two people, don't care what they look like and I have 40 years to train them. One I send to school and provide a strong social network for. The other I don't. At the age of 40 I take one year and teach them how to do a job. Then I send them both out to apply for the same job. Who do you think will get hired? Now their children. Both have one boy, healthy and smart. Which child will have the best opportunity to be successful? while the one's father that got the good job has the resources and the education to teach his son what he knows. All other things being equal unless the less fortunate Father son combo really busts their but they will not have the same opportinities for success as the other combo. Now on top of that lets throw in race. The world they live in favors the fortunate father son combo and discriminates against the less fortunate ones. Now who is more apt to be successful. The less fortunate combo now has two things to overcome, preperation and race. Say hey overcome the perperation side with very hard work they still fall short.

 

Now take this and apply it to America. That is what we are facing. Since the pigrams came here they were the dominate race because they valued money and land while the natives believed they were a part of the land and the land was a part of them. Die indians or be like us. Fast foreward to 200 years ago. Blacks were slaves and up until say 1950 they had very little if any education access that whites had. So my example above is in effect. How can you expect two individual races to compete on an equal playing field that was never equal to begin with. Thus we have laws that try to reward hard work and perceverance and discourage discrimination that is obviously occuring in cities and towns all over our nation. That's all I am saying.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Yes, The Skins and Seahawks made a token interview and that is about what I would expect from both of those "gentlemen". This just serves to reinforce why the Rule is still needed.

Forgive me but, if the 'Skins wanted Shanny and the 'Hawks wanted Carroll, why do they have to interview anyone else? Black, purple, green.. if that's who they wanted should they have to bring ANYONE else in for an interview?

[godtomsatan]

I had no idea who Leslie Frazier was before Friday afternoon. Now I do. I'm sure that works for a lot of people in the media who stir the pot on these kinds of hirings.

 

While the Rooney rule is stupid, and teams aren't really abiding by it, a minority coach gets his name out there and talked about and enters into the consciousness of those making hiring decisions....not necessarily a bad thing.

[piratesownninjas]

So my point is this. To deny that one minority from college may be devistating as he or she may be the first in a generation to get there. While his or her white counterpart has had a 200 year support structure to insure that they will get other opportunities. Same with the Firefighter.

Asinine. Absoultely asinine. And as far as your point with firefighters... More hogwash. The more qualified applicant should get the job. I don't care if they are black, brown, white, or purple, I want the best person for the job in place. Anytime you pick a race over another race because of an injustice years ago that neither the white/black/purple person was a part of is retarded. What did the white person that is applying do to deserve to get the shaft? What did they have to do with what happened 200 years ago? Nothing. But since it happened to someones family long ago, they think they deserve or are owed something. Flawed thinking for sure.

[DawgTalk]

Asinine. Absoultely asinine. And as far as your point with firefighters... More hogwash. The more qualified applicant should get the job. I don't care if they are black, brown, white, or purple, I want the best person for the job in place. Anytime you pick a race over another race because of an injustice years ago that neither the white/black/purple person was a part of is retarded. What did the white person that is applying do to deserve to get the shaft? What did they have to do with what happened 200 years ago? Nothing. But since it happened to someones family long ago, they think they deserve or are owed something. Flawed thinking for sure.

 

 

That is exactly what I am trying to drive here. That 17 year old trying to get into college had nothing to do with any injustices to anyone. As for your percentages of population compared to the company structure...that is very misleading. How about we talk about the percentage of "qualified" people. Im sorry, but growing up in an area where I was the minority, I have seen many people NOT take advantage of free education provided. If you studied and went on to college you were considered a sell out to your friends that did not. How is that fair? Doesn't sound to fair to me. Trust me, for me to say I understand, would be a lie. However, for you to say you think its truly fair and not an extra edge over me, would also be a lie. You and I both know we have equal playing fields. If you ever experience getting passed over because of race, then congrats, you have been discriminated against. Just like that colllege and firefighter group. To be told sorry, you didnt get the job. Then ask why sir, what could I have done differently, and they simply reply back- sorry, you were perfect and there was nothing you could do differently. It REALLY makes you think.

[bpwallace49]

The whole point of the Rooney rule is not to guarantee jobs like some are trying to make out in this thread, but to create an OPPORTUNITY for minorities that quite often, would never be considered for a position in the first place with the "old boy" network of owners in the NFL.

 

The best person according to the organisation will still get the job, but it creates awareness of other potential candidates that may not necessarily be given a second thought before.

 

How long since Marge Schott ( an admitted nazi sympathizer and documented racist) was an owner of a MLB franchise?

[Cowboyz1]

The whole point of the Rooney rule is not to guarantee jobs like some are trying to make out in this thread, but to create an OPPORTUNITY for minorities that quite often, would never be considered for a position in the first place with the "old boy" network of owners in the NFL.

 

The best person according to the organisation will still get the job, but it creates awareness of other potential candidates that may not necessarily be given a second thought before.

 

How long since Marge Schott ( an admitted nazi sympathizer and documented racist) was an owner of a MLB franchise?

 

 

Exactly very well put. Dawg, you think Marge judged people on their character?

[Cowboyz1]

That is exactly what I am trying to drive here. That 17 year old trying to get into college had nothing to do with any injustices to anyone. As for your percentages of population compared to the company structure...that is very misleading. How about we talk about the percentage of "qualified" people. Im sorry, but growing up in an area where I was the minority, I have seen many people NOT take advantage of free education provided. If you studied and went on to college you were considered a sell out to your friends that did not. How is that fair? Doesn't sound to fair to me. Trust me, for me to say I understand, would be a lie. However, for you to say you think its truly fair and not an extra edge over me, would also be a lie. You and I both know we have equal playing fields. If you ever experience getting passed over because of race, then congrats, you have been discriminated against. Just like that colllege and firefighter group. To be told sorry, you didnt get the job. Then ask why sir, what could I have done differently, and they simply reply back- sorry, you were perfect and there was nothing you could do differently. It REALLY makes you think.

 

 

If you noticed I did use Qualified applicants in my percentages. And yes they are accurate numbers which is precisely why we have affirmative action. I totally agree with you that many times minorities frown upon the success of thier friends and that is very sad. I can't stand to see that. I have seen that first hand and experienced it. I was called a sell out while in the Air Force because I spoke good english and didn't use "be" as a verb. I felt alone sometimes, not accepted in the black groups because I was educated and grew up in a white town, while I also felt odd at times around some white groups that could'nt fit me into their preconcieve box either. It was pretty wierd. I remember one time I was in the day room in Louisiana talking to a buddy of mine and his friends talking about going duck hunting. I immediately jumped in and said I wanna go. They all looked at me like I was crazy and asked right, you hunt? I said, heck yeah, love it. You got a gun, they asked? As if to exclude me when I said no, I said yep in my baracks. I ended up going with them into the swamp and I wondered to myself what the heck I was doing out here in deliverance country with good ole boys I barely know, with guns. We soon became great friends. Hitting a triple on the first shots of the day, followed by a skyscraped Mallord didn't hurt!

 

If you think we have trully equal playing fields your very niave. You know today in 2010 there are still places in which I can't live. I live next to a town like that. No Blacks at all. Mr. Brown was the last one about 10 years ago and he ended up dead leaning up against a tree in the woods. So to say we have equal playing fields is rediculous. When I was a banker I had a territory of the entire Nortern Ca. doing business loans. I remember having to go to way out places and you should have seen the looks when I showed up in a suit and tie ready to break down their books. One guy told me "I was taking to someone else over the phone and he wanted to do business with him". I had to convince him it was me he talked to and he still insisted I wasn't him. Just as his wife started to hand me his financials the look on his face was priceless. Evidently he couln't tell I was black over the phone. So don't tell me the playing field is equal because it is NOT. It is so much better then it was but the U.S. does not look at everyone equally. In fact, the blacker you are the more discrimination. I am light skinned so I pass as they say but I have pitch black friends that get the treatment far more then I do.

 

I will give you this though. Blacks make it very hard on themselves needlessly. Perpetuating old stereotypes and such. I think we as a race have just as much responcibilty to insure we give ourselves the best opportunites and put on a positive light for others to see as anybody. We have to remeber that the impression we leave on others effect what the person feels about us as a race. Many times it is our responcibility to put others at easy and understand that it is quite possible that their last experience with a minority was a bad one and we have to be aware enough to understand that he or she may be justifiably cautious. A smile goes a long way and I see way to many "mean mugs" from minorities. I am aware that we can be our own worst enemy sometimes and that is a problem we have to take ownership of as a race.

[godtomsatan]

Many times it is our responcibility to put others at easy and understand that it is quite possible that their last experience with a minority was a bad one and we have to be aware enough to understand that he or she may be justifiably cautious. A smile goes a long way and I see way to many "mean mugs" from minorities. I am aware that we can be our own worst enemy sometimes and that is a problem we have to take ownership of as a race.

 

Being a dick knows no color.