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OK Bronco Billy I agree w/you now


BeeR
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I know that the popular thing to do right now is bash McDaniels and i certainly don't want to stop anyone from bashing the Target du jour, but... In all fairness while the Broncos did seem to give a lot away to get Tebow they still came out of the Draft with 9 players in 7 rounds and they were;

2 - 1st rounders

1 - 2nd Rounder

2 - 3rd Rounders

2 - 5th Rounders

2 - 7th Rounders

 

And he drafted pretty much across the board in terms of positions, 2 WR's, 3 o-lineman, 2 CB's, a DE and then yes Tebow. But so far in this thread I

 

That's pretty meaningless.

 

Let's use FF as an example. Suppose you thought Chad Ochocinco Blowhole Johnson was going to be one of the top 5 WRs in FF last year. You've done your homework, you've seen how many outstanding FF seasons he has amassed. Does that mean you ought to draft him with the 1.09 pick? No, because you know his ADP is 42 and he's the 15th WR off the board on average. So you grab talented players ahead of him in the 1st and 2nd round, and then secure COCJ in the 3rd round because even though you are drafting him a bit ahead of his ADP, you are making sure that you have him on your roster. His value as perceived by others doesn't warrant the use of a 1st or 2nd rounder in order for you to get him on your team.

 

McDilrod doesn't seem to understand this simple concept. He has no clue what player values are, he just knows who "his guys" are, and he'll draft them regardless of what their perceived value is in the draft. It's why he picked Moreno last year with the 12th pick and then followed it up with Ayers with the 18th pick and A Smith with the 37th pick. If he understood drafts at all, he would have understood that he could have had Orakpo with the 12th pick, Moreno would have been there at the 18th pick, and Smith would have been there in the 3rd round. He could have acquired significantly greater talent with a much more savvy draft using the exact same picks, and he still would have had the majority of "his guys".

 

That doesn't even go to the fact that he had a boatload of capable NFL RBs on the roster last year - partly as a result of acquiring half the FA RBs available last year, and partly because Shanahan is a superb judge and trainer of NFL RBs - and needed a ton of help in his D front 7, and had a much greater need of acquiring a player like Orakpo much more so than Moreno.

 

This year he did the exact same thing. He traded down, acquired 2 1st round picks, and then blew them on 2nd rounders. Thomas is a project with some very real question marks and at the very worst would have been there towards the end of the 1st round. Tebow is a massive project with tons of very real question marks and at the very worst case for DEN would have been there in the middle of the 2nd round. Beatles is an OT with short arms who is projected to play OG because of it and would have been there in the 4th round, but was drafted in the 2nd, and no one has any clue whether he can play inside at the NFL level.

 

In other words, McDilwad may have acquired a lot of high draft picks, but he then devalued them significantly by drafting the players he did too high. Going back to FF, we all know that if you do something like this and bypass Andre Johnson in the 1st round at 1.09 to pick COCJ there, and then draft Romo in the 2nd round because you like him best of all the NFL QBs, what the likely result is going to be - you are going to be behind the rest of the league when it comes time to match up in the regular season, and you are going to get your head handed to you. And if it is dynasty league and you are using the same drafting philosophy year after year, your team will fall progressively behind the rest of the league and you are going to lose increasingly more games.

 

The same thing is happening to the Broncos. McDicknose is leaving greater talent on the draft board for other teams when he moves up and takes "his guys" too soon. He is drafting 2nd rounders with 1st round picks, and 3rd and 4th rounders with 2nd round picks - simply because he likes them a lot and they are "his guys". Well, there's a hell of a lot more to a draft than that, and if you piss away the value of your draft picks at the NFL level, the rest of the league is going to pass you by. The margin of difference between the teams at the NFL level isn't that high, and teams can't afford to squander talent. History shows what happens to teams that draft players way ahead of their value - look at OAK (although they appear to have slipped Ol' Greaseball a Mickey Finn this year on draft weekend and had a very good draft as well as a good offseason - another omen that doesn't bode well for McDiminutive's Broncos).

 

So while McDorkus may have amassed a lot of high draft picks, between sending extraordinarily talented players packing to get them and then overdrafting the players he did, he diminished his drafts severely. That's why other teams are going to be bypassing DEN like a person going 50 mph on the freeway, including OAK & KC. And the worst part about it? When McMegan Fox gets fired in a couple of years, and it will happen as his teams get less and less competitive, there's not going to be anything in the cupboard for the new coach. It's going to take the better part of a decade, losing to not only SD but also dropping a lot of games to KC & OAK as well as other bottom dwellers, to catch up again. And if they don't get someeone incredibly sharp as a hire behind McDoofus, DEN could be looking at DET/CLE territory, where you never see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

That's a large part of my animosity towards McDilweed. Supreme arrogance, unwillingness to bend even slightly, and bad judgment of player value is a combination that is a death sentence for teams in the NFL, and that's exactly what we've got here. And this kid hasn't done a damned thing in the league to be arrogant about - he had everything handed to him in NE - yet he is a nauseating punk-ass know-it-all whose age and immaturity just make the rub that much worse. We saw his team fall apart like no other ever has before in NFL history last season. The team got actively worse while other teams around us improved. Well, something tells me we ain't seen nothing yet and while the bottom is still a ways away, it's coming up fast to meet us.

Edited by Bronco Billy
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Tebow is a massive project with tons of very real question marks and at the very worst case for DEN would have been there in the middle of the 2nd round.

To be fair it was highly doubtful that Tebow would have been there in the 2nd so McD did what he had to in order to get "his guy"...the problem with that pick, imo is that he is a big project that he saw fit to spend a 1st on.

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To be fair it was highly doubtful that Tebow would have been there in the 2nd so McD did what he had to in order to get "his guy"...the problem with that pick, imo is that he is a big project that he saw fit to spend a 1st on.

 

Who would have moved up to take Tebow earlier - especially with much more developed Clausen & McCoy available? BUF? They denied the speculative interest they had in moving up to get Tebow, which is reinforced by the way thyey bypassed Clausen & McCoy repeatedly to go with the guys they have. That's the only team I heard a rumor swirling around any team taking Tebow as high as the mid-40th pick (other than McDumbass, of course, which wasn't a rumor obviously).

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I know that the popular thing to do right now is bash McDaniels and i certainly don't want to stop anyone from bashing the Target du jour, but... In all fairness while the Broncos did seem to give a lot away to get Tebow they still came out of the Draft with 9 players in 7 rounds and they were;

 

well sure, but they traded away every halfway decent player on the team to get those picks. in value terms, they paid more for tebow than they got for marshall.

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That's pretty meaningless.

 

Let's use FF as an example. Suppose you thought Chad Ochocinco Blowhole Johnson was going to be one of the top 5 WRs in FF last year. You've done your homework, you've seen how many outstanding FF seasons he has amassed. Does that mean you ought to draft him with the 1.09 pick? No, because you know his ADP is 42 and he's the 15th WR off the board on average. So you grab talented players ahead of him in the 1st and 2nd round, and then secure COCJ in the 3rd round because even though you are drafting him a bit ahead of his ADP, you are making sure that you have him on your roster. His value as perceived by others doesn't warrant the use of a 1st or 2nd rounder in order for you to get him on your team.

 

McDilrod doesn't seem to understand this simple concept. He has no clue what player values are, he just knows who "his guys" are, and he'll draft them regardless of what their perceived value is in the draft. It's why he picked Moreno last year with the 12th pick and then followed it up with Ayers with the 18th pick and A Smith with the 37th pick. If he understood drafts at all, he would have understood that he could have had Orakpo with the 12th pick, Moreno would have been there at the 18th pick, and Smith would have been there in the 3rd round. He could have acquired significantly greater talent with a much more savvy draft using the exact same picks, and he still would have had the majority of "his guys".

 

That doesn't even go to the fact that he had a boatload of capable NFL RBs on the roster last year - partly as a result of acquiring half the FA RBs available last year, and partly because Shanahan is a superb judge and trainer of NFL RBs - and needed a ton of help in his D front 7, and had a much greater need of acquiring a player like Orakpo much more so than Moreno.

 

This year he did the exact same thing. He traded down, acquired 2 1st round picks, and then blew them on 2nd rounders. Thomas is a project with some very real question marks and at the very worst would have been there towards the end of the 1st round. Tebow is a massive project with tons of very real question marks and at the very worst case for DEN would have been there in the middle of the 2nd round. Beatles is an OT with short arms who is projected to play OG because of it and would have been there in the 4th round, but was drafted in the 2nd, and no one has any clue whether he can play inside at the NFL level.

 

In other words, McDilwad may have acquired a lot of high draft picks, but he then devalued them significantly by drafting the players he did too high. Going back to FF, we all know that if you do something like this and bypass Andre Johnson in the 1st round at 1.09 to pick COCJ there, and then draft Romo in the 2nd round because you like him best of all the NFL QBs, what the likely result is going to be - you are going to be behind the rest of the league when it comes time to match up in the regular season, and you are going to get your head handed to you. And if it is dynasty league and you are using the same drafting philosophy year after year, your team will fall progressively behind the rest of the league and you are going to lose increasingly more games.

 

The same thing is happening to the Broncos. McDicknose is leaving greater talent on the draft board for other teams when he moves up and takes "his guys" too soon. He is drafting 2nd rounders with 1st round picks, and 3rd and 4th rounders with 2nd round picks - simply because he likes them a lot and they are "his guys". Well, there's a hell of a lot more to a draft than that, and if you piss away the value of your draft picks at the NFL level, the rest of the league is going to pass you by. The margin of difference between the teams at the NFL level isn't that high, and teams can't afford to squander talent. History shows what happens to teams that draft players way ahead of their value - look at OAK (although they appear to have slipped Ol' Greaseball a Mickey Finn this year on draft weekend and had a very good draft as well as a good offseason - another omen that doesn't bode well for McDiminutive's Broncos).

 

So while McDorkus may have amassed a lot of high draft picks, between sending extraordinarily talented players packing to get them and then overdrafting the players he did, he diminished his drafts severely. That's why other teams are going to be bypassing DEN like a person going 50 mph on the freeway, including OAK & KC. And the worst part about it? When McMegan Fox gets fired in a couple of years, and it will happen as his teams get less and less competitive, there's not going to be anything in the cupboard for the new coach. It's going to take the better part of a decade, losing to not only SD but also dropping a lot of games to KC & OAK as well as other bottom dwellers, to catch up again. And if they don't get someeone incredibly sharp as a hire behind McDoofus, DEN could be looking at DET/CLE territory, where you never see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

That's a large part of my animosity towards McDilweed. Supreme arrogance, unwillingness to bend even slightly, and bad judgment of player value is a combination that is a death sentence for teams in the NFL, and that's exactly what we've got here. And this kid hasn't done a damned thing in the league to be arrogant about - he had everything handed to him in NE - yet he is a nauseating punk-ass know-it-all whose age and immaturity just make the rub that much worse. We saw his team fall apart like no other ever has before in NFL history last season. The team got actively worse while other teams around us improved. Well, something tells me we ain't seen nothing yet and while the bottom is still a ways away, it's coming up fast to meet us.

 

WOW! :wacko:

 

Dude no offense but I quit reading after the 4th paragraph. And if you re-read my post that prompted your Masters Thesis on Drafting :tup: , you would have seen where I stated, it does seem they gave away a lot to get Tebow. I agree they gave a way a lot. But at the end of the day they still came out of the Draft with 9 players and had 3 rounds with multiple picks. ie, the pain of not having a 4th rd pick is somewhat lessened by having 2-3rd rd picks.

 

My point is that overall, on paper, which at this point is all any team has to go on, the Broncos had a pretty good draft.

 

And I know they got rid of Cutler and Marshall, boo-frickin-hoo. I have seen more than 1 talented team done in by 1 or 2 talented mal-contents.

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I think that some of the other smarter NFL GMs were playing a practical joke on Mcdaniels.

 

i can see them whispering at the buffet line "hey . . lets tell Mcdainiels we REALLY want to draft tebow in the first and see what he does. yeah he is a great character guy, but where is he going to play? Lets let the new kid on the block be the dumbass that drafts him and has to deal with the headache of trying to make him an NFL QB . .hee hee hee. He probably wont be dumb enough to fall for it . . but you never know."

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  • 1 year later...

Yep McD aint lookin so bad right now after all. DEN was foolishly trigger happy letting him go IMO. You sold yourself on the guy, give him a chance to bring his plan together. This hire a guy and fire him 1 or 2 yrs later BS is ridiculous.

 

Have to say iffy throwing ability or no, Tebow has surpassed everyone's expectations and Clausen blew chunks in his only chance to prove himself so glad to eat crow on that. Tebow still needs to improve his throwing to be a long-term winner IMO and one bad year from a rook QB has highly debatable value, but still...

Edited by BeeR
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:wacko:

 

"McDillwad" seems to have 'reached' for the two guys who just connected to win Denver's first playoff game in how long?

 

Historical perspective is interesing. I wonder how many playoff game Dez Bryant has won...?

 

:tup: are you serious? give him credit for von miller too, since he was so disastrously horrible as a HC that they were able to land the #2 pick.

 

I will grant you though that the single best thing he did as a head coach was to overpay for tim tebow.

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:wacko:

 

"McDillwad" seems to have 'reached' for the two guys who just connected to win Denver's first playoff game in how long?

 

Historical perspective is interesing. I wonder how many playoff game Dez Bryant has won...?

 

You know, as exciting as this year has been since Tebow took over, I'd still rather see Cutler - who was really starting to play well this year before he got hurt, Hillis, and Marshall and the O nucleus as then have used those top picks to improve the D and wrap some talent around that core; rather than going through the Orton era leading to Tebow taking over and supported by McGahee and Thomas, with Tebow and Thomas costing 1st rounders that would have been used elsewhere.

 

So I'll have to disagree completely and say that this success gets McDouchebag nothing but mildly passing credit, and then only by accident. Elway and Fox get the lions' share of the credit for fixing this team and putting it where it is.

Edited by Bronco Billy
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Yep McD aint lookin so bad right now after all. DEN was foolishly trigger happy letting him go IMO. You sold yourself on the guy, give him a chance to bring his plan together. This hire a guy and fire him 1 or 2 yrs later BS is ridiculous.

 

Have to say iffy throwing ability or no, Tebow has surpassed everyone's expectations and Clausen blew chunks in his only chance to prove himself so glad to eat crow on that. Tebow still needs to improve his throwing to be a long-term winner IMO and one bad year from a rook QB has highly debatable value, but still...

Because of yesterday? That's one way of looking at it.

 

Another is that a better coach installed a system and brought in some players that protected a young and flawed QB with great intangibles and was able to milk a play-off run out of a team that, under McD was just plain awful.

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So I'll have to disagree completely and say that this success gets McDouchebag nothing but mildly passing credit, and then only by accident. Elway and Fox get the lions' share of the credit for fixing this team and putting it where it is.

 

:wacko: All I am saying is that Thomas looks pretty good and may be a better WR than Bryant when all is said and done....Tebow just won his first playoff game and played pretty well doing it....and they just might not have been the reaches that people said they were at the time.

 

Enjoy your win. See you Saturday :tup:

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