trying to form an IDP league

[n1ttanystee1ers]

A twelve team keeper league it'll be. I pretty much know how the offense rosters go but on DEFENSE what should each position be and how many to start at each position? How many per position should be allowed on your roster? Roster size, amount of starters, amount on bench, amount on IR. etc. And In conjunction with the standard QB gettin 1pt for every 25 in passing and RBs and WRs getting 1pt per 10yds, what should the point-system be for the defensive players be (ex, per tackle, per sack, per INT, fumble caused, etc). If a few of you could chime in that would be pretty cool. Thanks.

[Footballjoe]

3 D Line, 3 LBers, 3 DB's.

 

Points: 2 for tackles, 1 for asst tackle, 2 for int, FF, Fumble recovery, sacks and 1.5 for pass defended

 

Total roster size 40

[paulzale]

If tackles are 2 pts, then shouldn't int's and fum recov. be more since they get the ball back?

[Big John]

If tackles are 2 pts, then shouldn't int's and fum recov. be more since they get the ball back?

The way scoring goes all attributes add up, so it would be 3.5 for an INT since you also get the 1.5pts for a pass defended. For a sack, it would be 4pts since you also get credit for the tackle. For a fumble recovery, you might also get points for the tackle and 2 points for a forcing a fumble should be added to the scoring, in which you may also get credit.

[Bronco Billy]

How serious are you about this? When I formed TOCOL I took player data from the previous 5 years using FFLM and attempted to find an equitable system that approximated value across positions and used a lot of less common scoring in additon to traditional performance scoring. My principle was that the 8 man starting Offense (including kickers) would balance the 12 man starting Defense (including punters) with a slight edge to the O.

 

When we formed ATAP the principle was to use similar less common scoring in additonal to traditional performance scoring and to create relative value between positions rather than units.

 

Adherence to these principles resulted in some more esoteric scoring values for different types of actions.

 

I enjoy both leagues immensely because of the principles used to form them even though drafts are very different - and most owners in both leagues seem to feel similarly.

 

It took some serious homework & number crunching, as well as using FFLM to manipulate scoring easily and get ready results. The time involved was well worth the result, IMO.

 

Not everyone is interested in making their league so deeply refined and complicated.

 

I'd suggest that you:

* - First decide how serious you are and how much time you want to commit. The more variables, the more fun, but also the more thinking & time in defining and testing those variables prior to actually implementing them in the league - and you do want to test them.

* - Next would be to determine your principles in creating the D side of the league. Do you want full 11 man Ds? Would you rather have lighter 8 man or 9 man D requirements? Maybe you rather just start 5 D players or even 2 D players.

* - Then decide how much impact you want the D players to make. Do you want the D to perform equally with the O? Do you want the D individuals to perform equally with the O individuals? Do you want O to dominate (maybe score twice as much)?

* - Then decide if you want to break out certain positions. Do you want to start DEs and DTs, or rather just DLs? Do you want just DBs or do you want CBs & Ss? Maybe you want to start just a few players, like 3 or 4, and make all D players just that - D Players.

* - Once you've done this, determine what kind of scoring that you want to use. Do you want to just score D TDs with tackles, sacks, and turnovers? Do you want to differentiate fumbles forced and fumbles recovered? Do you want tackles and assists? Do you want to include passes defended? Do you want to include return yards?

* - Now decide how you want players to match up. Are LBs just as important as RBs, WRs, or TEs to you? If RBs then you'll need to award more for tackles and assists. If WRs, the value for tackles and assists goes down. If TEs the value for tackles and assists goes way down unless TEs get graduated reception scoring or something else that improves their value. Do the same with the other positions. Maybe you want DLs to score more for tackles bcause they get less than LBs, and that evens things a bit (graduated D scoring).

 

Does this sound like a lot of work? Yes, it is. And the more complicated you make it (separating DLs and DBs into DEs, DTs, CBs, and Ss; scoring FFs and FFs with PDs and return yards; using more D starters) the more you'll have to work at it. You can keep it simpler and put in less time - but relegate yourself to putting in time on this.

 

One thing I will virtually guarantee you - the more variables you include, the more fun it will be during the season, and you only have to do all that work once. An 11 man flex D is a gas to run with a full flex O. It makes Sundays really, really enjoyable.

 

One other thing I virtually guarantee you is that if you do this half-assed and don't put much thought or effort into it, your owners will hate it and you will wreck the league.

 

In other words, make the effort all out - even if you choose simple scoring with few players - or don't do it at all.

 

But the last thing I virtually guarantee you - if you make the effort and use bigger squads, the fun of FF won't just double, it will increase 10-fold. I just quit my last team D league this year, and I don't think I can ever stand to go back to playing FF that is as unchallenging as using team D. I got bored with it when I had IDP league that were so much more challenging and fun.

 

Once you get your head around all of this, post here what your decisions and parameters are, and we've got some brilliant guys who can help you pull your league together.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Bronco Billy

[keggerz]

If tackles are 2 pts, then shouldn't int's and fum recov. be more since they get the ball back?

an INT would also get the 1.5 pts for a pass defended so it is more...if you see fit to increase a fumble recovery I can see the logic in that

[keggerz]

I just quit my last team D league this year, and I don't think I can ever stand to go back to playing FF that is as unchallenging as using team D.

 

The site url that I have that I hope to get off the ground in the near future is www.NoTeamD.com it will be 100% IDP ..I really need to get off my butt and talk to DMD about this too.

[n1ttanystee1ers]

Thanks for the responses gang. Here's how I have it set-up so far. In addition to further advise to further theak this, what is the standard pt system for a 'Head Coach' and how do I go about a pt system for a Punter given all you see below?

 

Roster

 

Current Roster Size: 32

Total Starters: 21

Total On Bench: 11 (1 IR)

 

Position Starters

Quarterback (QB) - 1, 3max on roster

Running Back (RB) - 2, 5max

Running Back/Wide Receiver - 1

Wide Receiver (WR) - 2, 5max

Tight End (TE) - 1, 3max

Defensive Tackle (DT) - 2, 3max

Defensive End (DE) - 2, 3max

Linebacker (LB) - 3, 5max

Cornerback (CB) - 2, 3max

Safety (S) 2, 3max

Defensive Player Utility (DP) - 1

Place Kicker (K) - 1, 2max

Head Coach (HC) - 1, 2max

Bench (BE) - 11

Injured Reserve (IR) - 1

 

 

Scoring (decimal system)

Passing

Every 1 passing yard - 0.2

TD Pass - 4

Interceptions Thrown - minus 2

2pt Passing Conversion - 2

 

Rushing

Every 1 rushing yard - 0.1

TD Rush - 6

2pt Rushing Conversion - 2

 

Receiving

Every 1 rushing yard - 0.1

TD Reception - 6

2pt Receiving Conversion - 2

 

Miscellaneous

Kickoff Return TD - 6

Punt Return TD - 6

Fumble Recovered for TD - 6

Fumbles Lost - minus 2

 

Kicking

Each PAT Made - 1

Total FG Missed (FGM) -minus 1

FG Made (0-39 yards) - 3

FG Made (40-49 yards) - 4

FG Made (50+ yards) - 5

 

Defensive Players

Each Sack - 2

Interception Return TD - 6

Fumble Return TD - 6

Blocked Punt or FG return for TD - 6

Blocked Punt, PAT or FG - 3

Each Interception - 3

Each Fumble Recovered - 1

Each Fumble Forced - 2

Each Safety - 3

Assisted Tackles - 0.3

Solo Tackles - 1

Stuffs - 1

Passes Defensed (PD) 1

[REZ]

32 players and starting 21.

Seems a little tight.

[keggerz]

32 players and starting 21.

Seems a little tight.

yep and imo, making tackles just 1 pt and assists .3 is basically making the IDP side of things insignifigant...but at least you will be able to say you have an IDP league

[n1ttanystee1ers]

What rez? More space on the bench. A roster of 39/40 perhaps?

[Bronco Billy]

Immediate impressions:

 

I sure hope you meant .02 pts/passing yd and not 0.2 pts/passing yard like you typed...

 

I agree that at 1 pt/tackle and 0.3 pts/assist your D players are not going to make the imapct you are hoping for - unless you are hoping to have O dominate D. In the league I described earlier - TOCOL - we use 1.2 pts/tackle and 0.6 pts/assist and the 11 man D unit gets outscored by just a slight margin by the 7 man starting O (not counting K & P). Your D starters aren't going to acquire a lot of value simply because they aren't going to score very much.

 

I also agree rosters are way lean - a good rule of thumb is a minimum of 2 roster spots for every starting position - and that's running very tight. I'd suggest a 2Xstarters + 2 or a slight bit more as a good roster size.

[tazinib1]

If you're gonna go IDP, do it right and go 11 starters. Having a league with 3,4,5 or whatever IDP starters is something I would not even entertain joining. Trust me, you will get a better group of owners if you go large and make IDP comparable to the O scoring wise. Those little IDP lineup requirement leagues are for people that wanna join a yahoo league. Thats just my opinion though.

[kpholmes]

The site url that I have that I hope to get off the ground in the near future is www.NoTeamD.com it will be 100% IDP ..I really need to get off my butt and talk to DMD about this too.