At what point is Reid going to have to eat his words and play Vick

[choptalk]

Sometimes you have to leave behind your plans and make adjustments.

 

Vick is playing the best ball of his career right now.

I know AR has said the KK is his starter, but I dont even think he thought MV would come close to doing what he is doing right now.

 

Its not like KK is Joe Montana or has a huge contract.

[rattsass]

Sometimes you have to leave behind your plans and make adjustments.

 

Vick is playing the best ball of his career right now.

I know AR has said the KK is his starter, but I dont even think he thought MV would come close to doing what he is doing right now.

 

Its not like KK is Joe Montana or has a huge contract.

The Eagles just finished with Mcnabb (better version of Vick) and have moved on. I wouldn't hold my breath for a reversal of plans now.

 

Vick is an "exciting" quarterback. But he is not a WINNING quarterback. Never has been. Never will be. Punking the Lions is no reason for the organization to junk their plans. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

[BearBroncos]

Agree with the above poster. Kolb is their guy and no reason to continue to keep putting him on the back burner. They traded McNabb for a reason (400+ yard game yesterday to boot). Kolb will start Week 3 and probably throw for 350+ yards and 2 TD's which will then make the "Vick should be the starter" chatter vanish.

[The Waterboy]

I agree 100% with all this....

 

That being said, I have to say, I'm not so sure Vick doesn't have the potential to win with this team. I have nothing to base this on...other than sports sometimes is about the situation and the story, not the numbers and past conception of ability. I'd love to come up with some reference to Bill Simmons, but I don't have one. Maybe what Isiah Thomas said about basketball "The secret of basketball is that it's not about basketball?"

 

Vick running this offense and getting another shot after being in prison...in a tough as nails town...somehow I just see him thriving there. And like the other poeter said, not just an "exciting" or statistically impressive QB, but a "winning " one. He's hungry, got a cast of receivers, a screwy coach with his own jailbird son..

 

I could almost never see this working out in any other city...other cities that harbor refugees like Oakland don't have decent enough talent....cities that do....let's be honest, I just couldn't see Vick playing in a nice, Midwestern town, given his past (Indy, Green Bay or KC? Hahaha). So very few fit the bill....but Philly does, which is why he's there. This is the almost stuff of movies, people.

 

Kolb looked terrible in the half he did play, and IMO, with the lack of game experience he's basically a rookie QB that got to watch a season. He's more of a wildcard in that town than Charlie Day.

 

If Reid goes back to Kolb like he said he would. and Kolb has another bad game, there will be a lot of pressure. If Kolb has two bad games, I think you'll see Vick as the starter. And then....lookout.

[BearBroncos]

BTW, Vick did everything to ensure and victory yesterday. The Philly D nearly gave this away. That and the Lion offense isn't bad either. They have talent, for sure.

[Mello]

I think Kolb would have to be JaMarcus level bad for a number of games in a row for him to get benched for Vick. I'm not sure if that's best for Philly's chances to win now, but I'm sure Reid will not have a quick trigger.

[rebdog]

its still the Lions. they're slowly improving, but nevertheless.

 

Reid will go with Kolb in the long run. might not be a bad idea to wait until Vick struggles a bit to put Kolb back in...but i don't think Reid will do that. he's the coach and its his plan. he knows what he has in Kolb better than anyone. but it could be tough on both of them in Philly until Kolb shows it on the field. gotta love Philly fans!

[BearBroncos]

I think Kolb would have to be JaMarcus level bad for a number of games in a row for him to get benched for Vick. I'm not sure if that's best for Philly's chances to win now, but I'm sure Reid will not have a quick trigger.

 

But every QB needs to go through growing pains. I also don't think we can make much of a determination of his skill sets based upon less then half a game.

[MrTed46]

It's hard to bench Vick who almost won the 1st game with a large defecit and playing so well against Lions.

 

Tough decision for the Eagles. I would say roll Vick out 1 more week and if he plays well then keep him in.

[lkirc]

This situation is a nightmare for fantasy owners of either Kolb or Vick. Reid was running Vick in there often before Kolb was injured. Both players fantasy value will suffer until one is in there all the time.

 

As far as real football is concerned, this situation can't be good for team morale if Kolb struggles. Recipe for disaster......

[DMD]

This is Michael Vick we are talking about and after only a game and a half. Vick can be a weapon when used judiciously but as an every down QB he has never been a good passer and is not changing this late in his career no matter what happened in Detroit. Kolb is a pure pocket passer that should be well suited to the offense that Andy Reid runs there. Remember when they tried to install the west coast offense with Vick in Atlanta? Disaster. Kolb is young and the future of the Eagles. Why would anyone place more importance on the ten passes he threw in the opener against the GB defense than the two full starts he had last year when he passed for well over 300 yards in each?

 

I'm not saying that Kolb is necessarily a proven commodity but Vick is. A new QB needs more than ten passes against an aggressive defense to get on track and become as good as they will get. The Eagles almost lost that game in DET and did lose to GB.

[Azazello1313]

The Eagles just finished with Mcnabb (better version of Vick) and have moved on.

 

the two have very little in common as QBs. well, except for that....

 

Vick is an "exciting" quarterback. But he is not a WINNING quarterback. Never has been. Never will be.

 

I remember him taking an underdog falcon team into lambeau against brett favre et al in january and, you know, winning. overall for his career as a starting QB he's 38-28-1. it's not peyton manning but it's not bad either.

[rattsass]

Look, I'm sorry if you spend your whole free agent budget on Vick, but you know damn well that what DMD stated above is the truth. Vick is not the centerpiece of this rebuild. Kevin Kolb is. And if Kolb is healthy enough to start, he will be the starter. And he will really have to suck to get pulled.

 

My hope is that Vicks performance only increases his playing time, thus watering down he and Kolbs stats both. I have neither of them so I am rooting for the worst possible scenario. And it looks like that is what we might see. I have the coach on my side, and his decision is the only one that matters. People getting way too workid up over this, but I say there is nothing to see.

[SheikYerbuti]

Vick is playing the best ball of his career right now.

 

LOL. It was one game against Detroit.

 

To quote Chris Rock: "Slow down. . ."

[keggerz]

another thing that I think really hurt Kolb in the opener was the play calling...a QB needs to get into a rhythm and I think that Reid was doing to much back and forth with him and Vick and it was truly to Kolb's detriment.

Edited September 20, 2010 by keggerz

[Seahawks21]

Other than Brady/Manning/Brees, no other QB on the planet could have gone 38-28 with those Falcons teams. Those teams had 4-12 talent. To say he isn't a winner isn't either fair or correct.

 

Still, this is Kolb's job. You don't run a proven commodity out of town for Michael Vick. At least Andy Reid doesn't.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Seahawks21

[STL Fan]

I agree 100% with all this....

 

That being said, I have to say, I'm not so sure Vick doesn't have the potential to win with this team. I have nothing to base this on...other than sports sometimes is about the situation and the story, not the numbers and past conception of ability. I'd love to come up with some reference to Bill Simmons, but I don't have one. Maybe what Isiah Thomas said about basketball "The secret of basketball is that it's not about basketball?"

 

Vick running this offense and getting another shot after being in prison...in a tough as nails town...somehow I just see him thriving there. And like the other poeter said, not just an "exciting" or statistically impressive QB, but a "winning " one. He's hungry, got a cast of receivers, a screwy coach with his own jailbird son..

 

I could almost never see this working out in any other city...other cities that harbor refugees like Oakland don't have decent enough talent....cities that do....let's be honest, I just couldn't see Vick playing in a nice, Midwestern town, given his past (Indy, Green Bay or KC? Hahaha). So very few fit the bill....but Philly does, which is why he's there. This is the almost stuff of movies, people.

 

Kolb looked terrible in the half he did play, and IMO, with the lack of game experience he's basically a rookie QB that got to watch a season. He's more of a wildcard in that town than Charlie Day.

 

If Reid goes back to Kolb like he said he would. and Kolb has another bad game, there will be a lot of pressure. If Kolb has two bad games, I think you'll see Vick as the starter. And then....lookout.

 

I was with you on everything you said here until you quoted Isiah Thomas. He was a great player, but one of the worst front-office people I've ever seen in the history of pro sports, and I've seen the football Cardinals and the Rams firsthand.

[Azazello1313]

Other than Brady/Manning/Brees, no other QB on the planet could have gone 38-28 with those Falcons teams. Those teams had 4-12 talent. To say he isn't a winner isn't either fair or correct.

 

Still, this is Kolb's job. You don't run a proven commodity out of town for Michael Vick. At least Andy Reid doesn't.

 

yup. agreed on both counts.

[WaterMan]

The Eagles just finished with Mcnabb (better version of Vick) and have moved on. I wouldn't hold my breath for a reversal of plans now.

 

Vick is an "exciting" quarterback. But he is not a WINNING quarterback. Never has been. Never will be. Punking the Lions is no reason for the organization to junk their plans. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

 

Let me inform you:

 

With Vick 2002-2006

38-28-1

 

57.46 % win percentage

9.19 wins/season

 

Without Vick- 2002-2006

3-12

 

20.0 % win percentage

3.2 wins/season

 

 

Not to mention that 57% win percentage was top 10in the league during that time. Despite having arguable bottom 10 coaching staff and cast. And there's that 3 time pro bowler thing.

 

Remember when they tried to install the west coast offense with Vick in Atlanta? Disaster. Kolb is young and the future of the Eagles.

 

West Coast doesn't work for Vick because he's a vertical passer and runner. When you have everyone within 20 yards, there's not as many chances for Vick to get big yardage. Using the west coast with Vick made it easier for teams to spy him or zone blitz. I guess that's why Mora isn't head coach anymore.

[rattsass]

Let me inform you:

 

With Vick 2002-2006

38-28-1

 

57.46 % win percentage

9.19 wins/season

 

Without Vick- 2002-2006

3-12

 

20.0 % win percentage

3.2 wins/season

 

 

Not to mention that 57% win percentage was top 10in the league during that time. Despite having arguable bottom 10 coaching staff and cast. And there's that 3 time pro bowler thing.

 

 

 

West Coast doesn't work for Vick because he's a vertical passer and runner. When you have everyone within 20 yards, there's not as many chances for Vick to get big yardage. Using the west coast with Vick made it easier for teams to spy him or zone blitz. I guess that's why Mora isn't head coach anymore.

Let me inform you. 8 years in the league and one playoff win.

[Azazello1313]

Let me inform you. 8 years in the league and one playoff win.

 

two, actually. 2002 in green bay, 2004 against the rams. facts seem to be eluding you in this thread.

[DMD]

For the sake of discussion, let's ignore the odd playoff win or the very pedestrian passing stats during Vick's tenure as a starting QB in ATL and consider him one the highest winning percentage QBs in his time playing. We can even throw in all those rushing yards that he had as well.

 

It still makes me wonder why no one wanted to touch him when he returned (bad PR? Didn't hurt Philly).

 

Even more so, now that he is clear of PETA chicks picketing and carries no baggage or even a high price tag, why has no NFL team wanted him to be a starter? Offer Philly anything for him? Why would Philly who knows him best not even consider him as a starter?

 

I'll be honest - I never cared for Vick because he was never even an average passer and couldn't rally his team because of it. But if playing the DET Lions is proof enough that he is a suitable QB, why wouldn't Reid want to use him? Or any other club? Throw around all the stats you want but the bottom line is no one is offering him a job and 32 teams must have a decent reason.

[Avernus]

you'd think Reid would want all the glory of saying "I helped Vick become a better QB" rather than being right in a 2nd round pick which I think they traded out of the 1st round for (with Dallas?)...he stand to lose something there, but he should just bite the bullet as this is a win-win unless he's trying to get fired..