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Kevin Smith


onbrake
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Where are you getting this from? Not sure why they'd start him over Morris (assuming Best sits, which may not be true) when they didn't even consider him worthy of activating last week.

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Where are you getting this from? Not sure why they'd start him over Morris (assuming Best sits, which may not be true) when they didn't even consider him worthy of activating last week.

probably from his assumption that Best will be out and he probably assumes that Smith is the back up...it does sound like Smith could finally be active for the 1st time in 2010 but starting, I doubt it:

 

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100928/SP...-to-play-Sunday

Smith likely

 

All signs are pointing toward running back Kevin Smith (ACL surgery) being in uniform on Sunday in Green Bay.

 

"I am not going to make any commitment that I don't have any control over, but it looks like I could be getting some action," he said.

 

The Lions expected Smith, who had surgery nine months ago, to begin camp on the physically unable to perform list, but he was ready to go on Day 1.

 

"He's getting a lot closer," coach Jim Schwartz said. "What we need to balance with Kevin is injuries to other players and where the team is, and we still need to make the right choice for where he is. Kevin's been chomping at the bit. He's ready to go. But sometimes you have to look at it objectively. I know he's a lot closer now than he was in the preseason."

 

Schwartz's hand may be forced, though.

 

Starter Jahvid Best (turf toe) is day-to-day. Even if he plays Sunday, a toe injury is easily aggravated. Backup Aaron Brown also left last Sunday's game with a broken finger.

 

That would leave just Smith and Maurice Morris .

 

"The only way we will know if Kevin is 100 percent game-ready is by putting him in the game," Schwartz said. "We are starting to see the signs (that he's ready)."

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That's what I figured.

 

I can't see any way Smith is usable, as he was junk even before the ACL injury. If DET didn't view him as superior to Maurice Morris before the injury (they were splitting touches, if I recall), I'd be shocked if they just slotted him in as the starting RB. As a Best owner, I'm not even bothering to pick him up. At most, I see him getting 10 touches.

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You can't deploy Kevin Smith in fantasy until you see him actually carry the ball 10+ times first... and do well with the carries.

 

It's Morris and Felton in a RBBC if Best is out this week, with Morris getting the majority.

 

+1

 

Granted, Smith could be out for blood after losing his starting job. Making a good statement with the one opportunity could be in his best interest, but starting him is a HUGE gamble.

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Your information is incorrect.

 

1) At the moment, I believe that Best is expected to start. He certainly has not been ruled out yet.

 

2) Smith hasn't played a down of real football in 9 months. I doubt that he would get that many carries even if he plays.

 

3) Maurice Morris is probably going to get most of the work even if Smith is activated. He almost assuredly "will get the start" if Best is inactive.

 

4) Aaron Brown, the only other RB on the roster, broke a bone in his hand. But he's only had 2 or 3 carries this year.

 

5) FB Jerome Felton (who also has about 2 or 3 carries this year) might see some additional work, but not much IMO.

 

As it stands right now, I would not consider starting Kevin Smith assuming that he is activated unless I had no one else to start. Even in the best case scenario (only Smith, Morris and Felton are active) I still wouldn't start him, unless you're fond of starting an unexplosive back on a poor offense who likely will receive limited carries.

 

:wacko:

Edited by Furd
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That's what I figured.

 

I can't see any way Smith is usable, as he was junk even before the ACL injury. If DET didn't view him as superior to Maurice Morris before the injury (they were splitting touches, if I recall), I'd be shocked if they just slotted him in as the starting RB. As a Best owner, I'm not even bothering to pick him up. At most, I see him getting 10 touches.

 

 

By splitting you mean a spell back then you are correct. Before the ACL injury Smith was a PPR machine. When they went 0-16 Smith came just shy of 1000 yards when Rudi Johnson started the first 5 games of the year. Smith was a good running back with a bad offensive line...and the offensive line hasnt changed that much. Outside of the Philly game Det still hasn't run the ball very effectively.

 

Not saying Smith is a God by any means, but to say he was junk is purely based on opinion rather than fact. He still had 700 yards rushing and 400 yards receiving last year and missed 6 games with ACL and shoulder injuries.

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By splitting you mean a spell back then you are correct. Before the ACL injury Smith was a PPR machine. When they went 0-16 Smith came just shy of 1000 yards when Rudi Johnson started the first 5 games of the year. Smith was a good running back with a bad offensive line...and the offensive line hasnt changed that much. Outside of the Philly game Det still hasn't run the ball very effectively.

 

Not saying Smith is a God by any means, but to say he was junk is purely based on opinion rather than fact. He still had 700 yards rushing and 400 yards receiving last year and missed 6 games with ACL and shoulder injuries.

 

Absolutely agreed!! I've had this argument on more then one occasion. For what Smith had to work with, he was a GREAT back. If they had given him more support, he would have been a good back.

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By splitting you mean a spell back then you are correct. Before the ACL injury Smith was a PPR machine. When they went 0-16 Smith came just shy of 1000 yards when Rudi Johnson started the first 5 games of the year. Smith was a good running back with a bad offensive line...and the offensive line hasnt changed that much. Outside of the Philly game Det still hasn't run the ball very effectively.

 

This was 2008 - a loooong time ago in RB years. No doubt he was an excellent PPR fantasy play during that season though.

 

Not saying Smith is a God by any means, but to say he was junk is purely based on opinion rather than fact. He still had 700 yards rushing and 400 yards receiving last year and missed 6 games with ACL and shoulder injuries.

 

My opinion that he was junk the last time he was playing (i.e., 2009) is based on the fact that he sucked. He avg'd 3.4 ypc last year before getting hurt - that's not good. He may have pulled in his fair share of receptions, so he was playable in a PPR league, but I don't think PPR is something that coaches consider when they determine how much to play a guy. The question here is whether he's going to get enough touches to be usable - I don't see any way that the coaches give him a ton of run right off the bat because, simply put, he's just not that good anymore. Maybe I'm 100% wrong - I guess we'll see on Sunday.

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This was 2008 - a loooong time ago in RB years. No doubt he was an excellent PPR fantasy play during that season though.

 

 

 

My opinion that he was junk the last time he was playing (i.e., 2009) is based on the fact that he sucked. He avg'd 3.4 ypc last year before getting hurt - that's not good. He may have pulled in his fair share of receptions, so he was playable in a PPR league, but I don't think PPR is something that coaches consider when they determine how much to play a guy. The question here is whether he's going to get enough touches to be usable - I don't see any way that the coaches give him a ton of run right off the bat because, simply put, he's just not that good anymore. Maybe I'm 100% wrong - I guess we'll see on Sunday.

 

Is Stafford also junk quarterback? He had a QR of 61 in 09. Is Calvin Johnson a junk receiver . He ranked 32nd as a starting receiver in 09.

 

None of htese players are junk. They may not be superior talent, but their not junk. They had Junk to work with.

 

The only blocking TE was injured early. The O-line was putrid and a rookie quarterback allowed for defenses to stack the line and yet, he averaged almost 60+ yards in each of those 13 games he played.

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Is Stafford also junk quarterback? He had a QR of 61 in 09. Is Calvin Johnson a junk receiver . He ranked 32nd as a starting receiver in 09.

 

None of htese players are junk. They may not be superior talent, but their not junk. They had Junk to work with.

 

The only blocking TE was injured early. The O-line was putrid and a rookie quarterback allowed for defenses to stack the line and yet, he averaged almost 60+ yards in each of those 13 games he played.

 

I know the 60+ you are quoting sounds better than 57 but 57 is closer to 55, just sayin you should use correct numbers when posting stuff like that...

in those 13 games he rushed for 60+ just 6 times...means there were 7 he rushed for less....

he had a YPC of 3.3 or less in 6 games, and two of those games were 1.3 and 1.6 YPC efforts.

 

he ran the ball 217 times and only picked up 36 first downs and only 10 of those game in the second half of games.

 

as a quick example i tried to think of another back that had around 200 carries last year so I checked Ahmad Bradshaw...he had 163 carries and picked up 46 1st downs with 17 coming in the second half...and bradshaw had to contend with the big bruising short yardage back (brandon jacobs) too. Yet on 25% fewer carries or just 54 fewer carries he still logged 10 more 1st downs or you could also say he accounted for a 1st down on 28% of his carries compared to Smith only converting 17% of his carries for 1st downs.

Edited by keggerz
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I know the 60+ you are quoting sounds better than 57 but 57 is closer to 55, just sayin you should use correct numbers when posting stuff like that...

in those 13 games he rushed for 60+ just 6 times...means there were 7 he rushed for less....

he had a YPC of 3.3 or less in 6 games, and two of those games were 1.3 and 1.6 YPC efforts.

 

Your talking 39 freaking yards here and I gave him wiggle room for the 2 games that were not entirely completed which in an analytical world, I should have not done that.. Again, your blaming all his woes on "Kevin Smith" and not that O-line nor that they had any decent TE's plus and ora rookie QB.

 

MJD is only producing 3.8 YPC this year. By your own analytical perspective, MJD is also junk? Avg 72 YPC and no TD's he's surely garbage!

 

Granted, I'm not putting Smith in the same league as MJD, but you have to look at the entire picture before painting a picture of a player.

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Is Stafford also junk quarterback? He had a QR of 61 in 09. Is Calvin Johnson a junk receiver . He ranked 32nd as a starting receiver in 09.

 

None of htese players are junk. They may not be superior talent, but their not junk. They had Junk to work with.

 

The only blocking TE was injured early. The O-line was putrid and a rookie quarterback allowed for defenses to stack the line and yet, he averaged almost 60+ yards in each of those 13 games he played.

 

Rookie QBs are slightly different than RBs - you know this. While the jury is out on Stafford, CJ is clearly not junk - you can't compare him to Kevin Smith. WRs can be taken out of games much more easily than RBs can. Double/triple team anyone and their stats will suffer a great deal. CJ missed 2 games and had a rookie QB throwing to him - if not for the missed games, he'd have had over 1000 yards again. If he had anyone other than Stafford throwing to him, the stats would've been ever greater. He had a terrible situation last year and still put up solid stats because he's a great talent. I'm afraid the same can't be said for Smith.

 

I'm not sure that 60+ yards is something to be proud of. Why was Smith's ypc (carry and catch) so markedly lower than Morris'? Can we agree that Maurice Morris is junk? If that's the case, I don't understand why/how Smith was so vastly outplayed by him on a per touch basis last season.

 

Also, why did the team go out of their way to draft another franchise RB if they had any faith that Smith would be any good again? Yes - he had the injury, but RBs generally recover from ACLs. If DET had any faith that he could carry the load at RB in the future (and do it well), they'd have spent that draft pick on another position of need and not bring in Best. Again - maybe I'm wrong.

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Rookie QBs are slightly different than RBs - you know this. While the jury is out on Stafford, CJ is clearly not junk - you can't compare him to Kevin Smith. WRs can be taken out of games much more easily than RBs can. Double/triple team anyone and their stats will suffer a great deal. CJ missed 2 games and had a rookie QB throwing to him - if not for the missed games, he'd have had over 1000 yards again. If he had anyone other than Stafford throwing to him, the stats would've been ever greater. He had a terrible situation last year and still put up solid stats because he's a great talent. I'm afraid the same can't be said for Smith.

 

I'm not sure that 60+ yards is something to be proud of. Why was Smith's ypc (carry and catch) so markedly lower than Morris'? Can we agree that Maurice Morris is junk? If that's the case, I don't understand why/how Smith was so vastly outplayed by him on a per touch basis last season.

 

Also, why did the team go out of their way to draft another franchise RB if they had any faith that Smith would be any good again? Yes - he had the injury, but RBs generally recover from ACLs. If DET had any faith that he could carry the load at RB in the future (and do it well), they'd have spent that draft pick on another position of need and not bring in Best. Again - maybe I'm wrong.

 

Smiths productivity WAS junk. I'm not saying otherwise. I'm however defending that is wasn't necessarily Smiths fault for the lack pf production. Again, defenses had the advantage in that they could rush 4 on a regular basis and force Stafford to throw. The could absolutely stop the run and AP could have been back there and been only marginally better.

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Your talking 39 freaking yards here and I gave him wiggle room for the 2 games that were not entirely completed which in an analytical world, I should have not done that.. Again, your blaming all his woes on "Kevin Smith" and not that O-line nor that they had any decent TE's plus and ora rookie QB.

 

MJD is only producing 3.8 YPC this year. By your own analytical perspective, MJD is also junk? Avg 72 YPC and no TD's he's surely garbage!

 

Granted, I'm not putting Smith in the same league as MJD, but you have to look at the entire picture before painting a picture of a player.

 

It's been 3 games "this year" but anyway, I'm certainly on the side that says that MJD is vastly overrated. he's great in PPR fantasy but look at what he's done the past 12 or so games in real football terms - he has not been good.

 

I, for one, am not blaming everything on "Kevin Smith" - he had a terrible team surrounding him. That said, there are a lot of terrible teams out there where RBs fare well because they are simply great football players (e.g., Steven Jackson). Kevin Smith was great in 2008, but he appeared to lose something in 2009 - perhaps he took too much of a beating in 2008. He simply wasn't making plays with the same frequency that he made them in 2008.

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. . . and AP could have been back there and been only marginally better.

 

Agree to disagree on this one. AP would've been markedly better (though that doesn't mean he'd had put up AP-like numbers).

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Agree to disagree on this one. AP would've been markedly better (though that doesn't mean he'd had put up AP-like numbers).

 

I'm over stating that, for sure but I also think AP's fumble issues would have been a major issue in the Detroit backfield versus his rightful home.

 

But alas, we do however agree to disagree and Smith will probably now be a career backup back behind Best.... Considering who hes backing up, might not be a bad gig. Should be plenty of work in the near future.

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Your talking 39 freaking yards here and I gave him wiggle room for the 2 games that were not entirely completed which in an analytical world, I should have not done that.. Again, your blaming all his woes on "Kevin Smith" and not that O-line nor that they had any decent TE's plus and ora rookie QB.

 

I know that you like Kevin Smith and your blame the "wickedly retched" offensive line for that.

 

Well, that "wickedly retched" offensive line is still there. Yet here you are talking up Smith, who hasn't played in 9 months following a torn ACL. The guy didn't have a burst before. He sure in the hell ain't going to have one now.

 

He was a pretty good back in 2008. It will likely be quite some time before he regains that form, if he ever does. (I think that it takes about 2 years to fully recover from a significantly torn ACL)

 

It isn't 2008 and you're just fooling yourself if you think that Smith is going to perform anywhere near than level this year.

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The could absolutely stop the run and AP could have been back there and been only marginally better.

 

Man, you've really gone over the top now.

 

Even as a rookie, Smith consistently got tackled before he got completely through the hole. Consistently. He has no real burst and no breakaway speed.

 

Peterson would have blown through many of those holes. Who knows how many times Peterson would have turned those 3 and 4 yard gains that Smith racked up into something big?

 

You're comparing a pickup truck to a Porsche.

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Your talking 39 freaking yards here and I gave him wiggle room for the 2 games that were not entirely completed which in an analytical world, I should have not done that.. Again, your blaming all his woes on "Kevin Smith" and not that O-line nor that they had any decent TE's plus and ora rookie QB.

 

MJD is only producing 3.8 YPC this year. By your own analytical perspective, MJD is also junk? Avg 72 YPC and no TD's he's surely garbage!

 

Granted, I'm not putting Smith in the same league as MJD, but you have to look at the entire picture before painting a picture of a player.

:wacko: you really want my thoughts on MJD? You probably should have picked another player :tup:

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I know that you like Kevin Smith and your blame the "wickedly retched" offensive line for that.

 

Well, that "wickedly retched" offensive line is still there. Yet here you are talking up Smith, who hasn't played in 9 months following a torn ACL. The guy didn't have a burst before. He sure in the hell ain't going to have one now.

 

He was a pretty good back in 2008. It will likely be quite some time before he regains that form, if he ever does. (I think that it takes about 2 years to fully recover from a significantly torn ACL)

 

It isn't 2008 and you're just fooling yourself if you think that Smith is going to perform anywhere near than level this year.

 

Lets look at the line of 08 versus the line of 09.

 

Right tackle = 08 had Goerge Foster. Not a great tackle but a seasoned tackle. 09,second year player Cherilus took the helm with a less then stellar record for protection. Foster was a much better tackle, just like false starts and penalties but pretty dam good at protection.

 

Right Guard = 08 Peterman. Solid, SOLID guard which Smiths production was high in 08 but a sharp decline in Smiths production occurred when Peterman got injured in week 9 of 09.

 

Center: Raiola - Raiola is one of the only ones who remained healthy in 08 and 09 and in 10.

 

Left Guard = 08 and 09 was Robert Henderson replaced by Rob Simms. Huge improvement this year in this position.

 

Left Tackle = Jeff Buckus which is the weakest link on this entire line.

 

So, where again was the same line from 08 and 09????

Edited by BearBroncos
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Lets look at the line of 08 versus the line of 09.

 

Right tackle = 08 had Goerge Foster. Not a great tackle but a seasoned tackle. 09,second year player Cherilus took the helm with a less then stellar record for protection. Foster was a much better tackle, just like false starts and penalties but pretty dam good at protection.

 

Right Guard = 08 Peterman. Solid, SOLID guard which Smiths production was high in 08 but a sharp decline in Smiths production occurred when Peterman got injured in week 9 of 09.

 

Center: Raiola - Raiola is one of the only ones who remained healthy in 08 and 09 and in 10.

 

Left Guard = 08 and 09 was Robert Henderson replaced by Rob Simms. Huge improvement this year in this position.

 

Left Tackle = Jeff Buckus which is the weakest link on this entire line.

 

So, where again was the same line from 08 and 09????

 

 

Dude, you're a glutton for punishment.

 

I'm comparing the 2008 offensive line to the 2010 offensive line.

 

2008 - Backus, Raiola, Cherilus, Peterman, Ramirez, Mulitalo, Foster

2010 - Backus, Raiola, Cherilus, Peterman, Ramirez, Sims

 

See the similarities now?

 

BTW - Henderson isn't an offensive lineman.

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