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No points from special teams touchdown?


wseyller
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Percy Harvin ran a kickoff return for a touchdown after the half. I have the Vikings defense but I got no points for it as a special teams score. This is a Yahoo type leaque. I did see a team in my NFL.com league get the points for their Vikings defense.

 

Here is the score settings. As you can see it shows score settings as "Defense/Special Teams". Did I just get screwed??? It is about half way into the third quarter when I post this thread.

 

 

Scoring & Settings

Setting Value

League ID#: 381056

League Name: Thanks Mom...You Bastard

Password: *****************

Draft Type: Live Standard Draft

Draft Time: Tue Sep 7 8:30pm EDT

Max Teams: 10

Scoring Type: Head-to-Head

Start Scoring on: Week 1

Can't Cut List Provider: Yahoo! Sports

Max Moves: No maximum

Max Acquisitions per Week: No maximum

Max Trades: No maximum

Trade Reject Time: 2

Trade End Date: November 12, 2010

Trade Review: League Votes

Waiver Time: 2 days

Waiver Type: Continual rolling list

Weekly Waivers None

Post Draft Players: Follow Waiver Rules

Invite Sharing Tools: Disabled

Playoffs: Week 15 and 16 (4 teams) Note: Week 16 runs 7 days from Dec 21 to Dec 27

Divisions: No

Roster Positions: QB, WR, WR, RB, RB, TE, W/R, K, DEF, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN

Fractional Points: No

Negative Points: Yes

Offense League Value Yahoo! Default Value

Passing Yards 50 yards per point 25 yards per point

Passing Touchdowns 6 4

Interceptions -2 -1

Rushing Yards 20 yards per point 10 yards per point

Rushing Touchdowns 6

Reception Yards 20 yards per point 10 yards per point

Reception Touchdowns 6

2-Point Conversions 2

Fumbles Lost -2

Kickers League Value Yahoo! Default Value

Field Goals 0-19 Yards 3

Field Goals 20-29 Yards 3

Field Goals 30-39 Yards 3

Field Goals 40-49 Yards 4

Field Goals 50+ Yards 5

Point After Attempt Made 1

Defense/Special Teams League Value Yahoo! Default Value

Sack 1

Interception 2

Fumble Recovery 2

Touchdown 6

Safety 2

Block Kick 2

Points Allowed 0 points 10

Points Allowed 1-6 points 7

Points Allowed 7-13 points 4

Points Allowed 14-20 points 1

Points Allowed 21-27 points 0

Points Allowed 28-34 points -1

Points Allowed 35+ points -4

Edited by Big John
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Percy Harvin ran a kickoff return for a touchdown after the half. I have the Vikings defense but I got no points for it as a special teams score. This is a Yahoo type leaque. I did see a team in my NFL.com league get the points for their Vikings defense.

 

Here is the score settings. As you can see it shows score settings as "Defense/Special Teams". Did I just get screwed??? It is about half way into the third quarter when I post this thread.

 

 

Scoring & Settings

Setting Value

League ID#: 381056

League Name: Thanks Mom...You Bastard

Password: *************************

Draft Type: Live Standard Draft

Draft Time: Tue Sep 7 8:30pm EDT

Max Teams: 10

Scoring Type: Head-to-Head

Start Scoring on: Week 1

Can't Cut List Provider: Yahoo! Sports

Max Moves: No maximum

Max Acquisitions per Week: No maximum

Max Trades: No maximum

Trade Reject Time: 2

Trade End Date: November 12, 2010

Trade Review: League Votes

Waiver Time: 2 days

Waiver Type: Continual rolling list

Weekly Waivers None

Post Draft Players: Follow Waiver Rules

Invite Sharing Tools: Disabled

Playoffs: Week 15 and 16 (4 teams) Note: Week 16 runs 7 days from Dec 21 to Dec 27

Divisions: No

Roster Positions: QB, WR, WR, RB, RB, TE, W/R, K, DEF, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN

Fractional Points: No

Negative Points: Yes

Offense League Value Yahoo! Default Value

Passing Yards 50 yards per point 25 yards per point

Passing Touchdowns 6 4

Interceptions -2 -1

Rushing Yards 20 yards per point 10 yards per point

Rushing Touchdowns 6

Reception Yards 20 yards per point 10 yards per point

Reception Touchdowns 6

2-Point Conversions 2

Fumbles Lost -2

Kickers League Value Yahoo! Default Value

Field Goals 0-19 Yards 3

Field Goals 20-29 Yards 3

Field Goals 30-39 Yards 3

Field Goals 40-49 Yards 4

Field Goals 50+ Yards 5

Point After Attempt Made 1

Defense/Special Teams League Value Yahoo! Default Value

Sack 1

Interception 2

Fumble Recovery 2

Touchdown 6

Safety 2

Block Kick 2

Points Allowed 0 points 10

Points Allowed 1-6 points 7

Points Allowed 7-13 points 4

Points Allowed 14-20 points 1

Points Allowed 21-27 points 0

Points Allowed 28-34 points -1

Points Allowed 35+ points -4

And did you just post your password and login to the team?

Edited by Big John
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It's not credited to Harvin, at least not in NFL.com fantasy. I start Harvin on both my teams, and got 3 points for a few receptions and a couple rushes today. No TD credits, no 92 yard return.

 

Percy Harvin scored a touchddown. I can't fathom any fantasy league not credting him for it, but I guess some don't.

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Percy Harvin scored a touchddown. I can't fathom any fantasy league not credting him for it, but I guess some don't.

 

WCOFF apparently does (didn't know that), but none of my other leagues count individual special teams scores. They're credited to the D/ST.

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Percy Harvin scored a touchddown. I can't fathom any fantasy league not credting him for it, but I guess some don't.

 

 

WCOFF apparently does (didn't know that), but none of my other leagues count individual special teams scores. They're credited to the D/ST.

 

 

WCOFF does not give return scores to the individual. I would know as we have Harvin and could desperately use the extra 6 points this week.

 

 

JUM - many leagues that give return scores to a "team", usually the defense, don't also award the points to the individual. It essentially creates a double dip on the single act. I personally agree with that, as the score should go to one or the other, not both.

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WCOFF does not give return scores to the individual. I would know as we have Harvin and could desperately use the extra 6 points this week.

 

Oops, you're right. On the live scoring, he's listed as having "1 TD," but he wasn't credited with points.

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WCOFF does not give return scores to the individual. I would know as we have Harvin and could desperately use the extra 6 points this week.

 

 

JUM - many leagues that give return scores to a "team", usually the defense, don't also award the points to the individual. It essentially creates a double dip on the single act. I personally agree with that, as the score should go to one or the other, not both.

 

Doesn't every touchdown pass "double dip" in the same way? Should only the QB or WR get credit? They are both involved in the play, so both get credit. Similarly, both Percy Harvin, the individual, and the Minnesota Vikings D/ST were involved in the kick-off return, so both should get credit.

 

The philosophy in our league has always been that any time an individual scores a touchdown, he gets 6 points, and that D/ST gets 6 for any touchdown scored by the defense and/or special teams units. Harvin could be in on pass coverage in an emergency situation and snag a Pick-6. In our league, that's 6 points (Minny defense would actually get 7 - 6 for the TD and 1 for the INT; Harvin does not get the 1 for the INT).

 

I've heard the "double dip" argument brought up in reference to a number of scoring situations. I don't think it's a legitimate objection. "Double-dipping" is fine as long as it's understood and written into the rules/scoring system on purpose.

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Doesn't every touchdown pass "double dip" in the same way? Should only the QB or WR get credit? They are both involved in the play, so both get credit. Similarly, both Percy Harvin, the individual, and the Minnesota Vikings D/ST were involved in the kick-off return, so both should get credit.

 

This isn't the same. The receiver is the one scoring the touchdown. The QB just gets credit for throwing it, but it's the receiver who scores. In Harvin's case, he is scoring the TD, as well as the Minnesota D/ST. You're counting the TD twice.

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This isn't the same. The receiver is the one scoring the touchdown. The QB just gets credit for throwing it, but it's the receiver who scores. In Harvin's case, he is scoring the TD, as well as the Minnesota D/ST. You're counting the TD twice.

 

Huh? It's 6 pts for each in my league so that counts as "scoring" for both the QB and WR. Same as Individual and D/ST. Besides, it's fantasy football! None of it makes much sense, it's just fun. So, more pts = more fun!

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They are considered separate as they are two separat acts - one is the act of "throwing" and one is the act of "receiving". Both just happen on the same play. Its whay there is also credit for "passing yardage" and for "receiving yardage".

 

In the case of the return, it is the same act, in this case the scoring of a return TD, being credited to two different players (using player to count as any started fantasy football unit, whether team or individual)

 

IMO, and as clearly stated it is nothing more than an opinion, two different players should not get credit for performing the same act.

Edited by Big Country
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They are considered separate as they are two separat acts - one is the act of "throwing" and one is the act of "receiving". Both just happen on the same play. Its whay there is also credit for "passing yardage" and for "receiving yardage".

 

In the case of the return, it is the same act, in this case the scoring of a return TD, being credited to two different players (using player to count as any started fantasy football unit, whether team or individual)

 

IMO, and as clearly stated it is nothing more than an opinion, two different players should not get credit for performing the same act.

 

That's all fine, but a return isn't any more or less "one act" than a TD pass. It's one touchdown pass that involves more than one player. An interception is the same way. One act, but it involves both the QB and the opposing D and, in most leagues, results in points for each (positive points for the D, negative for the QB). In the Harvin example, you've got one member of Minny's D/ST returning a kick while the other 10 members of the D/ST block. Seems pretty obvious to me that, in any of these cases, all parties deserve credit. I can see the argument that a QB and WR are distinct parties while Harvin is a member of the D/ST, but, in my opinion, that distinction doesn't warrant depressing scoring. When a guy is in the end zone with the ball, he should get 6 points, regardless of how he got there. That's my core FF scoring philosophy, anyway.

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That's all fine, but a return isn't any more or less "one act" than a TD pass. It's one touchdown pass that involves more than one player. An interception is the same way. One act, but it involves both the QB and the opposing D and, in most leagues, results in points for each (positive points for the D, negative for the QB). In the Harvin example, you've got one member of Minny's D/ST returning a kick while the other 10 members of the D/ST block. Seems pretty obvious to me that, in any of these cases, all parties deserve credit. I can see the argument that a QB and WR are distinct parties while Harvin is a member of the D/ST, but, in my opinion, that distinction doesn't warrant depressing scoring. When a guy is in the end zone with the ball, he should get 6 points, regardless of how he got there. That's my core FF scoring philosophy, anyway.

 

As I've said a few times, this is all just my opinion.

 

In your examples - The QB loses points as the result of throwing an interception. The team defense (as all of these situations are based on a non-IDP league) scores points as a result of catching an interception. Both are separate acts, just like the passing/receiving scenarios.

 

As for returns - If you have a team position that is defined to receive points for special teams acts, then that is the fantasy relevant position on the field during kick returns. Any individual on the field is out there as part of the team position for fantasy football purposes, not as an individual contributor.

 

All it is is a difference in philosophy (and of course league settings). IMO, first thing is that the same act should not result in points for multiple people in a fantasy sense (and as noted above, passing and receiving are separate acts).

 

 

In your opinion then, in the rare times that a WR lines up as a defensive back (rare, but it has happened), how do you score it if he ends up intercepting a ball and returning it for a TD. Do you gie the individual and the team defense points? Is it safe for me to assume however tha none of your leagues have interception/fumble recovery scores, much less other defensive acts like sacks set up as scoting categories for individual players? How would you rectify this kind of situation where an individual that was started performs this kind of act? (Most likely scenario is probably a kick return where the returner fumbles and a player on the kick coverage team that happens to be a RB or WR recovers and returns it for a TD)

 

Of course, the simplest solution to these situations is to just play IDP where all individuals get credit for all of their acts... no team positions.

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As I've said a few times, this is all just my opinion.

 

In your examples - The QB loses points as the result of throwing an interception. The team defense (as all of these situations are based on a non-IDP league) scores points as a result of catching an interception. Both are separate acts, just like the passing/receiving scenarios.

 

As for returns - If you have a team position that is defined to receive points for special teams acts, then that is the fantasy relevant position on the field during kick returns. Any individual on the field is out there as part of the team position for fantasy football purposes, not as an individual contributor.

 

All it is is a difference in philosophy (and of course league settings). IMO, first thing is that the same act should not result in points for multiple people in a fantasy sense (and as noted above, passing and receiving are separate acts).

 

 

In your opinion then, in the rare times that a WR lines up as a defensive back (rare, but it has happened), how do you score it if he ends up intercepting a ball and returning it for a TD. Do you gie the individual and the team defense points? Is it safe for me to assume however tha none of your leagues have interception/fumble recovery scores, much less other defensive acts like sacks set up as scoting categories for individual players? How would you rectify this kind of situation where an individual that was started performs this kind of act? (Most likely scenario is probably a kick return where the returner fumbles and a player on the kick coverage team that happens to be a RB or WR recovers and returns it for a TD)

 

Of course, the simplest solution to these situations is to just play IDP where all individuals get credit for all of their acts... no team positions.

 

I think our difference in philosophy/opinion comes from what we see as distinct acts. To me, a touchdown/interception/reception/whatever is one act (whether it's a run, a pass/catch, a return, etc.), so all scoring systems are essentially "double dipping" right from the get go. It takes two "actions," a pass and a catch, to create one "act," a touchdown pass. In an NFL game, it's worth 6 points, but in fantasy we tend to distribute at least 9 between two different players (as opposed to a rushing TD, where one NFL player runs for 6 and, generally, one fantasy player gets 6). So, with this in mind, I don't see why you can't/shouldn't count return TDs in the same "double dipping" manner. And, like I said, we just have a core philosophy than any TD is worth 6 to any/all players "involved" in the play.

 

Anyway, I can see why there's other opinions/philosophies/systems out there. I just wanted to explain my league's take on the whole thing. :wacko:

 

As for our particular scoring system, it divides players into "Individuals" (all QBs, RBs, WRs, TEs, and Ks are scored exactly the same) and "team defenses/special teams," which has it's own scoring system (points allowed, sacks, INTs, FRs, safeties, and any return TD). So, I guess our distinction there is between single players earning individual credit one way and a unit of players that gets credit for what it does as a unit (regardless of which individuals make it up).

 

In your interception scenario, the WR gets 6 for the TD and his D/ST would get 7 (TD + INT). In the later scenario, it's basically just a kick return for TD, so, as per the system, both the RB/WR who scored and the D/ST get 6. The fumble did not cause a change in possession, so there's no turnover issue and the guy who fumbled isn't affected because we don't penalize anything.

 

This would be different from, say, a completed pass to a WR, who then fumbles, and whose RB recovered it and scored. The WR & QB would get credit for a catch & yards. I believe NFL rules consider the recovery a "fumble recovery by offense returned for touchdown." So the RB gets 6 for a TD, but no rushing yards. The D/ST gets nothing because a turnover wasn't involved; the offense was "on the field" during the whole play.

 

The classic "scoring system buster" has to be the 2003 Bucs/Colts game. Bucs QB Brad Johnson threw an INT to Colt S Mike Doss, who advanced the ball about 15 yards before fumbling. Bucs WR Keenan McCardell recovered this fumble and returned it 57 yards for a TD. In our system (had it existed at the time), The Colts D/ST would get 1 point for the INT; The Bucs D/ST would get 7 points for a fumble recovery for TD (the Bucs "offense" became the Bucs D/ST as soon as the interception occurred); Keenan McCardell would get 6 for the TD. Incidentally, he would have scored 26 points in our system that day. Bucs D had 14 points - the FR for TD (7 points), an INT for TD (7), only 1 sack (0), allowed 38 points(0); Colts D had just the Doss pick for 1 point.

Edited by SatchDork
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The classic "scoring system buster" has to be the 2003 Bucs/Colts game. Bucs QB Brad Johnson threw an INT to Colt S Mike Doss, who advanced the ball about 15 yards before fumbling. Bucs WR Keenan McCardell recovered this fumble and returned it 57 yards for a TD. In our system (had it existed at the time), The Colts D/ST would get 1 point for the INT; The Bucs D/ST would get 7 points for a fumble recovery for TD (the Bucs "offense" became the Bucs D/ST as soon as the interception occurred); Keenan McCardell would get 6 for the TD. Incidentally, he would have scored 26 points in our system that day. Bucs D had 14 points - the FR for TD (7 points), an INT for TD (7), only 1 sack (0), allowed 38 points(0); Colts D had just the Doss pick for 1 point.

 

Many leagues have rules addressing this exact scenario. In a couple of my leagues, the rule states, "The formation of each NFL team on each side of the ball at the beginning of the play (snap of the ball) is the same throughout the duration of the play, regardless of any number of change(s) of possession." It alleviates a lot of confusion.

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Many leagues have rules addressing this exact scenario. In a couple of my leagues, the rule states, "The formation of each NFL team on each side of the ball at the beginning of the play (snap of the ball) is the same throughout the duration of the play, regardless of any number of change(s) of possession." It alleviates a lot of confusion.

 

Interesting. So, in these leagues, McCardell would have gotten 6? And Colts D 1 (or whatever you give for an INT)? Nothing for Bucs D, obviously, since they were never on the field.

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