any official word on Stafford yet?

[vansmack32]

I'm snakebit. Already lost Romo for the season.

[MTSuper7]

I'd say snakebit is the right word for Stafford too.

[damageinc]

Report: Stafford might be done for season

Matthew Stafford - QB - DET - Nov. 9 - 8:14 a.m. ET

Tom Kowalski of MLive.com reports that the Lions fear they may have lost Matthew Stafford for the season due to a Grade 3 separation of his right shoulder.

He had an MRI Monday, but it isn't known if those results, which have been forwarded to Dr. James Andrews, confirm the team's initial diagnosis. Stafford suffered a Grade 2 separation earlier this season that caused him to miss six weeks. As it stands right now, no decision has been made about Stafford's status. If true, it's an unfortunate blow to an offense that really started showing promise with Stafford at the helm. It's not clear if Shaun Hill, who played well while filling in for Stafford earlier this season, will be ready for Week 10. If he's not, Drew Stanton will get the call.

[CaptainHook]

what is the deal with this guy's shoulder?

[loaf]

if you keep injuring the same shoulder, you're going to be susceptible to further injuries of this sort. I don't know how the Lions can strengthen it and it might be something that will never be corrected.

[ajh2]

Per ESPN, on Mike and Mike, a grade 3 seperation. Out for year..

[giantsfan]

Shame. Guy has potential but can't stay healthy.

 

As for the affect on the other Detroit players, I am not too concerned. Last I checked CJ and Pet did pretty darn well with Hill in there (and he should be back soon worst case) and Stanton is not a total bum either.

 

As for CJ, other than the explosion against Wash he really did nothing with Stafford. While he was in against Chic CJ barely got any throws from Staff. And then he was thrown to all of 4 times this past Sunday. So I think he, and Pet, and Best if healthy will all be fine. Plus they have a good schedule.

[Furd]

As for the affect on the other Detroit players, I am not too concerned. Last I checked CJ and Pet did pretty darn well with Hill in there (and he should be back soon worst case) and Stanton is not a total bum either.

 

I'm not concerned about Hill.

 

Stanton, on the other hand, is a total bum. I don't think that I would start any Lions player with him at the helm. Even the vaunted "Megatron."

 

[giantsfan]

Here is what I'll say regarding Stanton. He wasn't terrible at the Giants (19/34, 222, 1 and 1) and he threw an 87 yard TD to CJ.

 

Again, you CANNOT dismiss the 3 TD game against Wash, but outside of that game Johnson did nothing with Stafford in the other 1.5 games. And Stafford barely threw to him. I almost think you can argue he is better off without him.

 

Backup QB's like Hill/Stanton go to their bread and butter like CJ. QB's with more talent and natural ability can get into the smaller windows that a guy like Burleson provides.

 

And with matchups like:

 

at Buff

at Dall

NE

Chic

GB

at TB

at Miami

Minny

 

I think they will be just fine on O.

 

Again, good, bad, whatever Stafford barely threw to Calvin outside of the Wash game. Just a fact this year.

[Furd]

Here is what I'll say regarding Stanton. He wasn't terrible at the Giants (19/34, 222, 1 and 1) and he threw an 87 yard TD to CJ.

 

Again, you CANNOT dismiss the 3 TD game against Wash, but outside of that game Johnson did nothing with Stafford in the other 1.5 games. And Stafford barely threw to him. I almost think you can argue he is better off without him.

 

Backup QB's like Hill/Stanton go to their bread and butter like CJ. QB's with more talent and natural ability can get into the smaller windows that a guy like Burleson provides.

 

And with matchups like:

 

at Buff

at Dall

NE

Chic

GB

at TB

at Miami

Minny

 

I think they will be just fine on O.

 

Again, good, bad, whatever Stafford barely threw to Calvin outside of the Wash game. Just a fact this year.

 

 

Sorry brah - you're dead wrong about Stanton. (I agree with you with respect to Hill)

 

How often have you seen Stanton play? I've probably seen most of the snaps that he has taken as a pro.

 

Heis not an NFL QB. He can't throw the ball. The Giants game - particularly the 87 yard pass to Johnson - was an anomaly. A high school safety should have tackled Johnson on that play for a short gain.

 

Without a decent running game to help Stanton out, he will get eaten alive.

 

[SatchDork]

Again, you CANNOT dismiss the 3 TD game against Wash, but outside of that game Johnson did nothing with Stafford in the other 1.5 games. And Stafford barely threw to him. I almost think you can argue he is better off without him.

 

This really isn't fair because for 66% of those "other 1.5 games" Megatron was blanketed by a healthy Darrelle Revis. Can't blame Stafford for looking elsewhere.

[giantsfan]

This really isn't fair because for 66% of those "other 1.5 games" Megatron was blanketed by a healthy Darrelle Revis. Can't blame Stafford for looking elsewhere.

Here is what I know. There have been LONG stretches where Calvin has not gotten the ball from or looked at by Stafford. That has not been the case with Hill/Stanton at QB. And last I checked, Calvin has been pretty dominant in his career with many differnet QB's, and many QB's most would consider "scrubs".

 

As for Stanton I hear you. I saw him a lot in colllege and know he is nothing special at best. BUT if Hill were to miss Sunday's game at Buff I would still have total confidence in Calvin to do well. My main point is if he has to start 1 maybe 2 games tops until Hill is 100% I still believe Calvin gets his. Didn't he in the past with scrubs like Orsolvsky, CPep, and the like at QB?

 

I just heard someone say you need to downgrade the Lions weapons without Staff. I guess I must be missing it then, because I'm not sure I saw things being that different with Hill at QB.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Edited November 9, 2010 by giantsfan

[Avernus]

I think that Stafford was/is getting ready to be a pro-bowler along with Calvin as the next elite combo....the Revis matchup is what it is and I would expect a fully healthy combination of Stafford and Calvin would yield Calvin at least 14 TD's and 1300 yds, but who knows if we'll ever be able to get that at this rate...

 

the 3 TD game was not an anomaly - the Revis game was, because he won't be playing Revis again for a long while...so he'll get to put up his numbers along with Stafford as his QB...

[giantsfan]

I think that Stafford was/is getting ready to be a pro-bowler along with Calvin as the next elite combo....the Revis matchup is what it is and I would expect a fully healthy combination of Stafford and Calvin would yield Calvin at least 14 TD's and 1300 yds, but who knows if we'll ever be able to get that at this rate...

 

the 3 TD game was not an anomaly - the Revis game was, because he won't be playing Revis again for a long while...so he'll get to put up his numbers along with Stafford as his QB...

I agree with everything you said there (although with each injury you have to wonder about Stafford more and more). My only point is if you set the baseline at 1300 and 14 with Stafford at QB I'd counter with 1100 and 13 without him worst case. So the yards will be less I agree with that, but honestly I think his TD's will pretty much be the same regardless. The guy is a TD freak.

 

Last I checked he had 12 TD's with scrubs at QB two years ago (team had 18 passing TD's total). He had a TD against Chic (yes that counts to me) with Hill. Had a TD vs Philly with Hill. Had 2 TD's at GB with Hill. Had a TD vs the Rams with Hill. Had a TD at the Giants with Stanton. AAAAALLLLL those TD's with no Stafford. TD wise I see very little dropoff. I think he may actually get a few more balls thrown to him and maybe a few more catches. Maybe the place he'll suffer the most is his yards go down a little without as many big plays.

 

But overall I just don't see a huge dropoff based on past performance by Calvin.

[giantsfan]

Let me break it down like this:

 

5.5 games with Hill/Stanton and Calvin had 6 TD's if you include a TD in that Bears game. And TD's in 5 of the 6 games if you factor in a Bears game TD.

 

2.5 games with Stafford and Calvin had 3 TD's, ALL in the same game. So 2 of the 3 games no TD.

 

So again the numbers show he'll still be pretty solid and I still say a clear top 3 fantasy WR option IMO.

Edited November 10, 2010 by giantsfan

[CaptainHook]

Is there no surgery that can be done to strengthen or fix this problem?

[Furd]

Let me break it down like this:

 

5.5 games with Hill/Stanton and Calvin had 6 TD's if you include a TD in that Bears game. And TD's in 5 of the 6 games if you factor in a Bears game TD.

 

2.5 games with Stafford and Calvin had 3 TD's, ALL in the same game. So 2 of the 3 games no TD.

 

So again the numbers show he'll still be pretty solid and I still say a clear top 3 fantasy WR option IMO.

 

Your mistake is lumping Hill and Stanton together.

 

If you think that Calvin Johson is a "clear" top 3 WR with Drew Stanton at QB, I'd say that . . .. Well, I really don't know what to say to that.

[ttwarrior4]

so which qb is starting or nobody knows

[giantsfan]

Your mistake is lumping Hill and Stanton together.

 

If you think that Calvin Johson is a "clear" top 3 WR with Drew Stanton at QB, I'd say that . . .. Well, I really don't know what to say to that.

I agree with you on Stanton. BUT like I said above at most he plays 1 game at Buff. Do I think CJ can have a good game and get a TD in one game with Stanton at QB at Buff...yes I do. Do I think if Stanton started every game the remainder of the season that I would still have as much faith in Calvin...no.

 

That is my point on Stanton. If Hill is being discussed this week I'm pretty sure worst case he is ready next week.

[Easy n Dirty]

so which qb is starting or nobody knows

 

I'd be interested in hearing the latest on this also.

[SatchDork]

Here is what I know. There have been LONG stretches where Calvin has not gotten the ball from or looked at by Stafford. That has not been the case with Hill/Stanton at QB. And last I checked, Calvin has been pretty dominant in his career with many differnet QB's, and many QB's most would consider "scrubs".

 

As for Stanton I hear you. I saw him a lot in colllege and know he is nothing special at best. BUT if Hill were to miss Sunday's game at Buff I would still have total confidence in Calvin to do well. My main point is if he has to start 1 maybe 2 games tops until Hill is 100% I still believe Calvin gets his. Didn't he in the past with scrubs like Orsolvsky, CPep, and the like at QB?

 

I just heard someone say you need to downgrade the Lions weapons without Staff. I guess I must be missing it then, because I'm not sure I saw things being that different with Hill at QB.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

When exactly were these long stretches? Stafford's only played in three games this season and only 10 last season (remember that he was a rookie NFL QB and also that Calvin missed one of those games). Stafford's first four games saw Calvin catch 3 balls for 90 yards and 0 TDs; 5, 51, 1; 5, 49, 0; and 8, 133, 0 (all of which came from Stafford before Culpepper came in). Culpepper started Week 5, hit Calvin for a 2-yard pass, and then Calvin went out for the next two games (plus a bye week). Both Stafford and Megatron were on the field together from Week 9 through 13. Here's how that played out for Calvin:

 

@SEA - 2 catches, 27 yards, 0 TDs in Megatron's first game back. Stafford threw 5 picks.

@MIN - 8, 84, 0

vCLE - 7, 161, 1 - Stafford also targeted Calvin on the pass interference play at the end of the game

vGB - 2, 10, 1 - Calvin was questionable with injuries suffered against the Browns and was in & out of the line-up

@CIN - 6, 123, 1 - Stafford goes down for rest of season. 1 catch and 38 yards come from Culpepper

 

During the last four games of the season, Calvin averaged 5 catches and 64 yards per game and only scored 1 more TD (in Week 17). Moving ahead to this season, in Week 1 Calvin caught all 4 of his passes for 45 yards and the non-TD after Stafford went out of the game. He obviously was then a stud with Hill at QB (it should be noted that his only 100+ yard game during this stretch was thanks to the 87-yard TD from Stanton). Stafford's return in Week 8 saw Megatron explode with 9 catches, 101 yards, and 3 TDs. Then he got shut down by Revis while Burleson shined.

 

So, we have a total of 12 games over the last season and a half that both players were on the field. Two (@SEA & vGB in '09) were duds thanks to Calvin's own injuries and poor play by Stafford (though CJ did still have a TD vs. GB). The three other stinkers were the 5 for 49 in Week 3 of '09 and Weeks 1 and 9 of 2010. Last week is explained by the Revis factor, but Week 1 is a little more unsettling (nothing from Stafford in the 1st half?!) as is Week 3 of '09 (only 5 for 49 in Lions 1st win since '07?!). The other 7 games with Stafford at QB have Megatron gaining over 75 yards and/or scoring a TD. All of his 100+ yard efforts come with Stafford at the helm (with the exception of the aforementioned Giants game with Hill/Stanton). Only 1 of his 5 TDs in '09 came from a QB other than Stafford (that Week 17 TD from Culpepper I mentioned). My point is that Megatron is certainly and consistently at his best with Stafford at quarterback (though Shaun Hill is not a drastic step down).

 

Anyway, with all this being said, I actually totally agree with you on all other points. Calvin will be fine for a game or two with Stanton (especially since they are @BUF and @DAL) and has already proven to be a reliable stud with Hill throwing to him. Pettigrew has also been a solid TE regardless of who's playing quarterback. Burleson is only a spot-starter anyway and caught 2 of his 3 TDs from Hill. If you're downgrading Best, it should have more to do with the fact that he hasn't scored since Week 2 than with who is playing QB. So, yeah, while the Lions probably aren't as good an NFL team without Stafford, I don't see individuals players taking a huge step down fantasy-wise without him. (*disclaimer: this assumes Hill comes back 100% healthy by Thanksgiving).

[SatchDork]

so which qb is starting or nobody knows

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81c0...le=HP_headlines

 

It will be Hill if he can go at all and Stanton only in case of "emergency." Just have to watch for the Thursday/Friday practice reports.

[giantsfan]

When exactly were these long stretches? Stafford's only played in three games this season and only 10 last season (remember that he was a rookie NFL QB and also that Calvin missed one of those games). Stafford's first four games saw Calvin catch 3 balls for 90 yards and 0 TDs; 5, 51, 1; 5, 49, 0; and 8, 133, 0 (all of which came from Stafford before Culpepper came in). Culpepper started Week 5, hit Calvin for a 2-yard pass, and then Calvin went out for the next two games (plus a bye week). Both Stafford and Megatron were on the field together from Week 9 through 13. Here's how that played out for Calvin:

 

@SEA - 2 catches, 27 yards, 0 TDs in Megatron's first game back. Stafford threw 5 picks.

@MIN - 8, 84, 0

vCLE - 7, 161, 1 - Stafford also targeted Calvin on the pass interference play at the end of the game

vGB - 2, 10, 1 - Calvin was questionable with injuries suffered against the Browns and was in & out of the line-up

@CIN - 6, 123, 1 - Stafford goes down for rest of season. 1 catch and 38 yards come from Culpepper

 

During the last four games of the season, Calvin averaged 5 catches and 64 yards per game and only scored 1 more TD (in Week 17). Moving ahead to this season, in Week 1 Calvin caught all 4 of his passes for 45 yards and the non-TD after Stafford went out of the game. He obviously was then a stud with Hill at QB (it should be noted that his only 100+ yard game during this stretch was thanks to the 87-yard TD from Stanton). Stafford's return in Week 8 saw Megatron explode with 9 catches, 101 yards, and 3 TDs. Then he got shut down by Revis while Burleson shined.

 

So, we have a total of 12 games over the last season and a half that both players were on the field. Two (@SEA & vGB in '09) were duds thanks to Calvin's own injuries and poor play by Stafford (though CJ did still have a TD vs. GB). The three other stinkers were the 5 for 49 in Week 3 of '09 and Weeks 1 and 9 of 2010. Last week is explained by the Revis factor, but Week 1 is a little more unsettling (nothing from Stafford in the 1st half?!) as is Week 3 of '09 (only 5 for 49 in Lions 1st win since '07?!). The other 7 games with Stafford at QB have Megatron gaining over 75 yards and/or scoring a TD. All of his 100+ yard efforts come with Stafford at the helm (with the exception of the aforementioned Giants game with Hill/Stanton). Only 1 of his 5 TDs in '09 came from a QB other than Stafford (that Week 17 TD from Culpepper I mentioned). My point is that Megatron is certainly and consistently at his best with Stafford at quarterback (though Shaun Hill is not a drastic step down).

 

Anyway, with all this being said, I actually totally agree with you on all other points. Calvin will be fine for a game or two with Stanton (especially since they are @BUF and @DAL) and has already proven to be a reliable stud with Hill throwing to him. Pettigrew has also been a solid TE regardless of who's playing quarterback. Burleson is only a spot-starter anyway and caught 2 of his 3 TDs from Hill. If you're downgrading Best, it should have more to do with the fact that he hasn't scored since Week 2 than with who is playing QB. So, yeah, while the Lions probably aren't as good an NFL team without Stafford, I don't see individuals players taking a huge step down fantasy-wise without him. (*disclaimer: this assumes Hill comes back 100% healthy by Thanksgiving).

I was actually speaking of this year only. Didn't really focus on last year too much because Staff was a rook, CJ was hurting a lot, and Det is a different/better team this year.

 

Maybe I have a bad taste in my mouth or bad thoughts in my head, but seeing Staff not even look at CJ last week, combined with not even looking at him in week 1 at Chic has left me down on their hookup so to speak. I think with Hill in there Calvin doesn't miss a beat (and if he does it is very small). And Hill practiced with the 1st team today, so hopefully he can go.

 

I just didn't see the Staff (I need to get CJ involved and the ball) Calvin love this year.

[SatchDork]

I was actually speaking of this year only. Didn't really focus on last year too much because Staff was a rook, CJ was hurting a lot, and Det is a different/better team this year.

 

Fair enough.

 

Maybe I have a bad taste in my mouth or bad thoughts in my head, but seeing Staff not even look at CJ last week, combined with not even looking at him in week 1 at Chic has left me down on their hookup so to speak. I think with Hill in there Calvin doesn't miss a beat (and if he does it is very small). And Hill practiced with the 1st team today, so hopefully he can go.

 

I just didn't see the Staff (I need to get CJ involved and the ball) Calvin love this year.

 

This is semi-fair. When you break down their 2.5 games together this season, you've got 1 game that was probably the best game of CJ's career (at least statistically) and 1 game in which he was shutdown by Revis (nothing to be ashamed of there - on CJ's or Stafford's part - especially considering that the Lions dang near won the game anyway; also, it's highly doubtful he would have fared any better with Hill). That really only leaves the first half of the Bears game from which to draw negative conclusions. And, like I said before, I agree with you that that 1/2-a-game was troubling. On the one hand, it was the first game of the season (when defense is generally a little ahead of offense, league-wide) and Chicago's D has done of fairly good impression of the ol' shutdown Bears Ds of the 2000s. On the other hand, Stafford didn't get the ball to CJ in the first half while Shaun Hill did in the second half (including for the winning "score"). I think it's a pretty fair argument (though entirely hypothetical) that CJ would have been no-worse-and-perhaps-better-off from Week 1.5 through 6 with Stafford quarterbacking as opposed to Hill. Stafford proved against Washington that he can get the ball to Calvin. I doubt Philly, Minny, Green Bay, St. Louis, or the G-men would have given Stafford anymore trouble than they gave Hill; or given either of them as much trouble as the Jets did. Really, though, it's just a shame the guy can't stay heathly and settle this debate for us.

[giantsfan]

I agree. I am sure Calvin would do just as well with Staff as he would with Hill. That is my main point. To me Calvin has shown throughout his career that he will get his regardless of his QB. Again the guy had 12 TD's two years ago with no real QB. And he did VERY well with Hill (and a little Stanton) as his QB this year. So I just don't see the "oh no Staff is out there goes Calvin's value" mindset.

 

To me the Bears game bothered me, but to be honest the Jets game bothered me more. YES Revis is great, but man they didn't even test him.

 

Calvin is a 6'5" beast and they don't even try anything?

 

Run it down:

 

pass 1 was the first play of the game. Long bomb knocked away by Revis. No harm no foul. Calvin could have made a play. Revis knocked it away.

"fake" pass 2 was a 15 or so yard gain on a slant on the 1st drive. Caught by CJ. Called back by penalty. He beat Revis there.

"real" pass 2 was a 13 yard completion on a slant also on the 1st drive. He beat Revis there.

pass 3 didn't come until early in the 2nd Q. A pretty useless 3 yard pass on a 3rd and 5 that Revis knocked down. Revis won that battle, but even a catch would have left them short.

pass 4 didn't come until AAAAAALLLLLLLLL the way early in the 4th Q. And CJ caught the pass, but his 2nd foot was out of bounds so no TD.

 

Now maybe you can say the coaches said look elsewhere, but my frustration was he didn't even try IMO. Look at the chart above. Anything crazy or bad there that would make you say "guess we can't throw to CJ today"? Not in my opinion.

 

I feel pretty confident that if Hill were in there would have been more shots to CJ. Just my opinion.

 

But at day's end I stand by my main point that to me CJ will do pretty much the same with Hill or Staff at QB. I truly feel that way, and I think CJ's history shows that to be the case also. He's been a stud with guys like CPep and Orvlovsky at QB.

Edited November 10, 2010 by giantsfan