Matty Ice Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 (edited) I have always played 'Move to last after claim' but am considering 'Inverse order' next year. I also have heard of blind bidding. Which one do you prefer and what does your league use? Edit: Added Poll Edited December 2, 2010 by Matty Ice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historymike Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 If by "inverse order" you mean the inverse order of standings, I absolutely hate this rule, as it regularly rewards the worst teams. I prefer a serpentine system or a set order, like the one league I am in in which the #10 draft team becomes number #1 WW for Week One, then #2 WW for Week TWo, and so on. Yahoo! offers what they call a continual rolling list, which is also fair. In the ESPN league I am in I essentially have been "punished" all year for being in first or second place, winding up every week with either the ninth or tenth WW slot since Week One. It would have been nice to get the first shot at least one time at some juicy WW pickups, such as Brian Westbrook this week, but I have been dealing with scraps all year in this competitive league. This, despite the fact that my team has faced some serious injury and IR issues, but hey: I am still in second place, so who am I to beee-atch about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Skins Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 We set our waiver order once after the draft (reverse order of draft order) and then never reset it again. If you make a claim, you go to end of line. If you don't, you hold your spot. If you have the third spot and don't use it, but 1 and 2 do, then you become #1. This makes people think more, and more of our transactions just happen as free agent drop/adds.... guys save waivers for when they really need/want them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 (edited) Although most people here are proponents of bling-bidding, I'm not a big fan.. You could end up blowing your whole budget, just on the whim that someone else might put in a high bid... It's too much of a guessing game for my tastes, but still a very good system for having to pony up for guys you really want... I definitely prefer a rolling waiver order that starts off in inverse order from the draft, like the system I assume you're talking about... Waivers run on Tuesday at midnight, and then it's FCFS from there... I like this, because it gives priority to those who aren't constantly scouring the waiver-wire, rather than simply getting it because your team sucks or you suck as an owner. Thus is why I do not like the "worst picks first" system. Should you be rewarded for not drafting well, or making poor decisions? Maybe if your league is grossly unbalanced in competition and playing with some lesser opponents, then I can see throwing them a bone, but if it's a competent competitive league, then there's no reason to reward the bottom-dwellers. For example, if someone forgets to set their lineup one week, is it fair that they get top priority the next on a hot prospect? I have never heard of one issue or complaint that has arisen from a rolling order. It's simple, effective and fair. Edited December 1, 2010 by delusions of granduer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driveby Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 In our league some people hated waivers at all (it rewarded the people who aren't paying attention by giving them until Wednesday to stumble upon the hot pickups) and some people hated the first come-first served option (rewarded people who pay too much attention). So now we use a first come-first served waiver process but with a graduated fee schedule. If you pick up a player anytime on Sunday after kick-off of the first game it costs you $5. Monday $4, Tuesday $3, Wednesday $2, and Thursday thru kickoff $1. This seems to placate both groups and builds the transaction pot as well. And frankly I'd rather side with the group that pays too much attention than the group that sets their lineup (if that) and nothing much else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbran23 Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 We set our waiver order once after the draft (reverse order of draft order) and then never reset it again. If you make a claim, you go to end of line. If you don't, you hold your spot. If you have the third spot and don't use it, but 1 and 2 do, then you become #1. This makes people think more, and more of our transactions just happen as free agent drop/adds.... guys save waivers for when they really need/want them. This right here^^^ The simplest and fairest waiver system IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 blind bidding. you have equal access to all other owners for players. spend wisely...or don't. It's on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 blind bidding. you have equal access to all other owners for players. spend wisely...or don't. It's on you. Agree, blind bidding is the most "fair" way for waivers as every owner starts the season on equal footing, and it is up to the owner to manage (or not manage) their budget accordingly and decide how bad they want the hot pick up in any given week. I prefer to have thisfollowed by a FCFS pick up period for minimum cost for the event an owner does not get a player they bid on. Other than that, either a rolling order that starts as reverse order of the draft followed by a FCFS or the standard reverse order of standings followed by a FCFS period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Ice Posted December 1, 2010 Author Share Posted December 1, 2010 Thanks for the replies. I'll keep the setting at 'Move to last after claim'. Just wanted some insight because some in my league were asking to change the rule for next year. I have it setup that the draft is a 15 round snake...and instead of the first pick in the 16th round for Team 12...they get waiver order 1. This year I picked in the 12th spot and used the waiver to get Vick. worked out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osu1322 Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 We set our waiver order once after the draft (reverse order of draft order) and then never reset it again. If you make a claim, you go to end of line. If you don't, you hold your spot. If you have the third spot and don't use it, but 1 and 2 do, then you become #1. This makes people think more, and more of our transactions just happen as free agent drop/adds.... guys save waivers for when they really need/want them. I agree that this waiver order is awesome. It rewards the people who drafted good teams by letting them slowly move up the list and forces another thoughtful decision. It also tends to allow the people who have a really good starter (like AP, CJ or Gore) to let them attack the WW first cause they are happy with their line up. It also doesn't hurt u for picking up a longshot when ur sittin low on the WW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I can see bidding for FAs, but absolutely hate blind bidding. wth? Put your cards on the table. But really I don't like bidding in general. I like a mix of worst/first and then FC/FS. First part (theoretically) helps sucky teams get competitive, second way rewards those on top of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 (edited) I can see bidding for FAs, but absolutely hate blind bidding. wth? Put your cards on the table. But really I don't like bidding in general. I like a mix of worst/first and then FC/FS. First part (theoretically) helps sucky teams get competitive, second way rewards those on top of things. I like blind bidding and I say put up or shut up with your bid(s)....if you want someone bad enough you pay what you are willing or able to pay...that is putting your cards on the table...what YOU want is to not overspend because you valued someone more than your league did Edited December 2, 2010 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I like blind bidding and I say put up or shut up with your bid(s)....if you want someone bad enough you pay what you are willing or able to pay...that is putting your cards on the table...what YOU want is to not overspend because you valued someone more than your league did what keg said. Blind bidding is the only way to go IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I can see bidding for FAs, but absolutely hate blind bidding. wth? Put your cards on the table. I don't play poker but I'd play with you. I'll keep my cards hidden and you put your cards on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 Blind bidding otherwise you might as well play in free leagues. But I do understand that its confusing for some people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I don't play poker but I'd play with you. I'll keep my cards hidden and you put your cards on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddahj Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I like blind bidding and I say put up or shut up with your bid(s)....if you want someone bad enough you pay what you are willing or able to pay...that is putting your cards on the table...what YOU want is to not overspend because you valued someone more than your league did I've been trying to get our league to switch to blind bidding. Right now we do waiver requests on Wed. & FCFS from Thurs. to Sun. morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 (edited) Why not blind bid e-bay style? Bids must be in even dollar amounts but winner pays .50 more than the next highest bid. Mind you, I have no problem with sticking the guy with his bid either. But for those who want to protect themselves from overspending, that would be a fine compromise. As for open bids, that would be a complete hassle. How does that go down? Everyone agrees to meet on-line at a specific time every Tuesday? Every league I've ever been in had a hard enough time finding one Sunday prior to the season where everyone could be there (or ever virtually be there). I can't imagine doing it every week. And I would imagine that this would not be over in 10 minutes or something either. Mind you, my local had every effed up waiver rule possible and it was always a struggle to fix it. Hell, when we started, it went worst to first and it was all you can eat. It was an absolute train wreck. If you were in the 5 hole, there might be 10 or more players snapped up before it was your turn. The biggest problem with worst to first, IMO, is that it makes being a high scoring team a bad thing. In nearly every league, w-l sets the play-offs. In many, head to head is next. In my effed up local, it then went to point spread in head to head. So, despite my annual protests, total points almost never factored into being anything good for a team. The only way it mattered was that it put you behind other teams with the same record at waiver (because no site is programmable to a waiver order based on head to head, and even if it was, there may not be a head to head until mid-way through the season). So, in reality, you wanted to be the team that scored as little as possible but still won. After week one, you wanted to be in either 12th or 6th place. Edited December 2, 2010 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfer Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I can tell you that blind bidding does take practice. It adds a completely different element to waivers. Not only do you have to manage your team, but you manage your waiver money too. Inverse order is alright, but take the Ryan Grant example. What if the Grant owner is 8th in waiver priority, so #1 or 2 grab Jackson? This is the part I dislike. Now you're going to tell me that the Grant owner has to blow his load on Bjax so he has no money left? Ah, but the other owners only THINK he will spend all his money, so in reality the Grant owner can probably get Bjax for a decent price. And that is the art-form known as BB waivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramhock Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 My home league does it a little different. You get to add a player, based on need (record & total points) after weeks 3, 6 & 9. You don't have to drop anyone. Only other avenue is trading. I like this because it keeps more emphasis on the draft . . . and frankly, I've always drafted better than them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montster Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I'm commissioner of a 12-team redraft. Our waivers used to run worst-to-first on Wednesdays, then FCFS thereafter. But I had the same issues as others here -- it's one thing if a struggling team uses a top waiver pick to improve his team the first few weeks, but it's not fair if he still gets the top waiver pick in week 12 when his team still sucks. So we compromised -- the first half of the season, we do worst-to-first, then the second half we do rolling waivers (if you make a claim, you go to the back of the line). It has worked a little better. But I will likely propose blind-bidding for next year. Seems he fairest way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montster Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 Why not blind bid e-bay style? You know how to win auctions on eBay? By sitting at your computer and entering bids two seconds before the auction ends (or having a computer program do it for you). A waiver system based on this would reward the guys who happen to be sitting at their computer at the exact time the auction ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 You know how to win auctions on eBay? By sitting at your computer and entering bids two seconds before the auction ends (or having a computer program do it for you). A waiver system based on this would reward the guys who happen to be sitting at their computer at the exact time the auction ends. Not if they were blind. My point is, everyone puts in their blind bid, but a guy doesn't get hosed if his blind bid happens to be twice what the next highest bid is. Oh, and as far as ebay is concerned, e-snipe, my friend, it's the only way. It's an on-line proxy bid service where you put your max bid (just like you would if you bid on ebay) but you tell it how many seconds before the bidding ends that you want it to drop your bid in. Great for a couple of reasons. Now, it won't win you an auction that you wouldn't have otherwise won because people are going to pay what they're going to pay. And if it's more than you, it's more than you. However, it will save you some coin. Say you think you're willing to spend $150 on something that I'm willing to spend $200. I'm lead bid at $147.50. You bid $150. Now I'm $152.50. You say, "Oh what the hell, I'll bid $160". Now I'm lead bid at $162.50. You chase the thing up to $175 before you finally say forget it. Now I've just spent $25 more than I had to. If I had a max $200 bid cued up, ready to drop at the last 5 seconds, you put your $150 bid in (maybe you're now the lead bid at $135 or something) and hope for the best. Maybe you're even into it enough to watch as the seconds tick away. Then, with not enough time for you to re-bid, I e-snipe drops me in and I take it for $152.50. Reason #2. Ebay wont let you take a bid back. But e-snipe will. Because the bid doesn't exist yet. So, up until 5 minutes before the auction ends, you can cancel your bid. The cost? Something like .10 on the dollar up to a max of $10. But you only pay if you win the auction. Quite simply, it is the only way to play on e-bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montster Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 He's not saying to do the eBay style entirely. You won't have to pay with Paypal, lol. He is saying that if your blind bid is highest, then you pay one increment over the second highest bid. It's not auction-style, it's still blind-bidding. Not if they were blind. My point is, everyone puts in their blind bid, but a guy doesn't get hosed if his blind bid happens to be twice what the next highest bid is. OK, I see. I haven't bought anything on eBay in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I agree that this waiver order is awesome. It rewards the people who drafted good teams by letting them slowly move up the list and forces another thoughtful decision. It also tends to allow the people who have a really good starter (like AP, CJ or Gore) to let them attack the WW first cause they are happy with their line up. It also doesn't hurt u for picking up a longshot when ur sittin low on the WW. I never played in a league with the rolling order described by some above, but was finding it very intriguing until I got to this post. In some ways, the rolling system almsot seems to favor those at the bottom of the list. Take a Legarret Blount for example. There was some buzz about him for a couple weeks before he was finally given his shot. If you have the #1 waiver wire position, you wouldn't want to waste that on a speculatve guy like Blount. But if you have pick #10 say, in a 12-team league, you'd be more inclined to take shots like this one. Seems to me that if you use the rolling system, there should maybe be a way for an owner to make a round 2 waiver claim without having made a claim in round 1, with the stipulation that you only lose your slot for claims made in round 1. This way, if I had the #1 spot, which I didn't want to waste on a guy like Blount, I could at least put in for him with a second round claim, knowing that if he made it that far I'd get him without losing my #1 spot, which I am saving for the Brandon Jackson/Brian Westbrook type situations. make any sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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