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So what's wrong with Peyton?


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OK, so before I start let me say two things:

 

1. I believe Peyton is a great QB

 

2. I don't want to hear the "all his receivers are hurt" excuse. Lots of QB's deal with tons of receiver injuries all the time (in fact Peyton has a history of doing so himself.) Ask Phillip Rivers about it. Hell, ask freakin' Sam Bradford. So no injury excuses.

 

That said, ESPN (among others) have been talking about this and I haven't seen it discussed here. If it was buried deep in some thread I apologize, but I think it merits discussion. ESPN has shown examples of Peyton rushing throws, locking on to his receivers, failing to "look off" safeties and linebackers and throwing in to coverage that he usually avoids.

 

So is he pressing? Is it ego? Is he losing his edge? Or is this a month-long anomaly that will soon be a distant memory. I am not a Manning owner and have no dog in this fight. I am just an interested observer who would like to see opinions.

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It's the injuries short and simple. No running attack what so ever and his other outlets he loves to use in lou of Wayne on either out for the year or struggling to come back. Now they are signing D. Rhodes to fill as a back up RB because Addia, Brown and Hart are all out with JJ as their starter.

 

It's just a bad situation, one that even a great QB as Manning can help but struggle.

Edited by BearBroncos
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It's the injuries short and simple. No running attack what so ever and his other outlets he loves to use in lou of Wayne on either out for the year on struggling to come back. Once Collie. Now they are signing D. Rhodes to fill as a back up RB because Addia, Brown and Hart are all out with JJ as their starter.

 

It's just a bad situation, one that even a great QB as Manning can help but struggle.

 

But none of that has anything to do with the stuff ESPN showed at length. And again, Rivers and Bradford have had receiver injuries as well.

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I think he's simply trying to do too much by trying to make throws that (and I bet he agrees after watching the tape) he has no business trying to make. His team isn't exactly helping him by putting him in some crappy situations - it's partly his fault and partly the fault of the team that's around him.

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I know injuries aren't an excuse. Your right, but I think this is exactly the case. He has Wayne who he has chemistry with, but really no one else. It seems like he's just not in sync with the other wide receivers and for some reason still doesn't appear completely comfortable with Garcon. Could the elbow injury be more than he's letting on. Certainly! Also seems like the o-line isn't playing as well recently.

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I think he's simply trying to do too much by trying to make throws that (and I bet he agrees after watching the tape) he has no business trying to make. His team isn't exactly helping him by putting him in some crappy situations - it's partly his fault and partly the fault of the team that's around him.

 

His defense has definitely not done him any favors . . .

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I know injuries aren't an excuse. Your right, but I think this is exactly the case. He has Wayne who he has chemistry with, but really no one else. It seems like he's just not in sync with the other wide receivers and for some reason still doesn't appear completely comfortable with Garcon. Could the elbow injury be more than he's letting on. Certainly! Also seems like the o-line isn't playing as well recently.

 

Agree, but he has a history of making stars out of nobodies. Why is that not happening now, with the exception of possibly Tamme?

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But none of that has anything to do with the stuff ESPN showed at length. And again, Rivers and Bradford have had receiver injuries as well.

 

All of the espn stuff can be explained by his lack of trust in his receiving options - right now, if he sees any sort of opening for Wayne, Tamme or (gulp) Garcon, he's trying to get the ball there. It's not working. He doesn't have the Collies, Gonzalez, Addais (who is a superb receiving RB), etc. to check down to, so he's trying to force it to his more reliable targets.

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Agree, but he has a history of making stars out of nobodies. Why is that not happening now, with the exception of possibly Tamme?

 

Because there's only so far down the pecking order you can go before you run into guys that Manning has zero experience with. He has a comfort level with the routes and timing of guys that he's actually practiced with - when you start pulling Joe Blow off the street, you're literally starting from scratch. Not easy to do.

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All of the espn stuff can be explained by his lack of trust in his receiving options - right now, if he sees any sort of opening for Wayne, Tamme or (gulp) Garcon, he's trying to get the ball there. It's not working. He doesn't have the Collies, Gonzalez, Addais (who is a superb receiving RB), etc. to check down to, so he's trying to force it to his more reliable targets.

 

Maybe that's the difference. Maybe he has lost the ability to trust the young guys that he apparently used to have. At some point you have to just accept things and throw to the unproven guys instead of hurting your team by forcing the ball into double coverage.

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He is losing his edge, he is getting old. Let the Curtis Painter era begin!

 

:tup: Someone in another thread was making the argument the other day that the Rams should bench the "struggling" Steven Jackson and try Kenneth Darby. :wacko:

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Maybe that's the difference. Maybe he has lost the ability to trust the young guys that he apparently used to have. At some point you have to just accept things and throw to the unproven guys instead of hurting your team by forcing the ball into double coverage.

 

but what if the young guys aren't where they're supposed to be? we've seen this happen more than a few times in recent weeks. I'd have no confidence throwing a ball to a guy if I thought there was a reasonable chance he would inexplicably cut off or change his route before the ball gets there.

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but what if the young guys aren't where they're supposed to be? we've seen this happen more than a few times in recent weeks. I'd have no confidence throwing a ball to a guy if I thought there was a reasonable chance he would inexplicably cut off or change his route before the ball gets there.

 

I guess my point is that many other QB's are dealing with very similar injury situations and are performing well. To say that the entire problem is because he is not familiar with his receivers is not giving him credit for being the QB that I believe he is.

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I guess my point is that many other QB's are dealing with very similar injury situations and are performing well. To say that the entire problem is because he is not familiar with his receivers is not giving him credit for being the QB that I believe he is.

I see what your saying, but keep in mind the Manning is the entire offense and frankly the entire team. St. Louis has Jackson to lean on and the D is actually playing well. While Manning has no running game and no defense, he has no choice but to sling it everywhere. I think he's just completely out of sync with the receivers that are currently on the field, and Wayne should be doubled on every play to take him out of the offense. Then what's left?

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I see what your saying, but keep in mind the Manning is the entire offense and frankly the entire team. St. Louis has Jackson to lean on and the D is actually playing well. While Manning has no running game and no defense, he has no choice but to sling it everywhere. I think he's just completely out of sync with the receivers that are currently on the field, and Wayne should be doubled on every play to take him out of the offense. Then what's left?

 

One thing ESPN didn't show is that when he forces the ball to double coverage, or locks on and doesn't "look off" the safeties, are there other options that are open that he is missing? Or are all those guys just as covered, leaving him no choice? It just doesn't seem like he's even trying to go through his reads sometimes.

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I guess my point is that many other QB's are dealing with very similar injury situations and are performing well. To say that the entire problem is because he is not familiar with his receivers is not giving him credit for being the QB that I believe he is.

 

They have running games. Every team that plays Indy gears up to stop the pass - they don't have to pay a lick of attention to the run. Contrast that to STL, where teams try to stop SJax as their basic gameplan, or SD, where teams will get burned if they pay no attention to Tolbert.

 

I also think that Rivers is a completely different kind of QB than Peyton - the latter is more of a mechanical, timing-oriented precision guy. Rivers has more of a "backyard" air to him, so I'm not surprised when he does well with whoever is open.

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One thing ESPN didn't show is that when he forces the ball to double coverage, or locks on and doesn't "look off" the safeties, are there other options that are open that he is missing? Or are all those guys just as covered, leaving him no choice? It just doesn't seem like he's even trying to go through his reads sometimes.

 

1. I've seen him go through his reads and check down, only to have a guy drop a pass or simply not be where he's supposed to be . . . at which point Manning gets visibly (and understandably) frustrated.

 

2. as someone else mentioned earlier, he's being given tons of time by his o-line and TEs. Clark was a very good blocker, so I think he's missing that more than a little bit.

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2. as someone else mentioned earlier, he's being given tons of time by his o-line and TEs. Clark was a very good blocker, so I think he's missing that more than a little bit.

 

He's only been sacked 13 times so I think he might be getting hurried or mentally rattled.

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The thing is, the Colts were dead last or near dead last in the league in rushing last year, yet they made the Super Bowl. So how does this year's running ineptitude explain anything?

 

I'd say they have gotten worse on defense this year which might put more pressure on Manning. But when it comes down to it, Manning is simply making more mistakes than usual.

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The thing is, the Colts were dead last or near dead last in the league in rushing last year, yet they made the Super Bowl. So how does this year's running ineptitude explain anything?

 

I'd say they have gotten worse on defense this year which might put more pressure on Manning. But when it comes down to it, Manning is simply making more mistakes than usual.

 

Personally, when I say "running", I'm also referring to checkdowns to the RB out of the backfield. Addai's involvement in the passing game has always been big and that option just doesn't appear to be there with brown/james, etc.

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