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How are tiebreakers determined in your league?


euphy
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Ours is head to head... division record... points. My current league... 5 teams will be 8-6 all going for the wild card.

 

Is there a standard for tiebreakers??? I know some league, it's points. And some follow the NFL format.

 

I know some leagues, the wild card tie breaker is different from the division tie breaker.

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I always pushed really hard in every league I was in for points to be the 1st tie-break. Because FF is nothing like the NFL or, for that matter, any game where you actually face your opponent on the field. And because of that H2H seems sort of silly. I understand the rationale for having records and not just going with points throughout the season, because it's more entertaining. But everyone knows that there's nothing you can do about who you face or how many points they score.

 

In real sports, if you have someone's number, you have their number. You know, scoreboard. In FF, it's just a fluke if you happened to lose to the same guy twice or split and had him score more than you in those games combined. It's not because he's a bad match-up for you and it's certainly not because he's a better team than you.

 

Any argument based on "it's how they do it in the NFL" needs to be thrown out because it simply doesn't carry any weight at all. Not least of reasons is that you can be a great team that doesn't score many points in real football. You might have an amazing D and a ball control offense who makes clutch plays when they need to. In FF, however, if you manage a good record despite putting up no points, it just means you're a lucky bastage. There is simply no other explanation.

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I always pushed really hard in every league I was in for points to be the 1st tie-break. Because FF is nothing like the NFL or, for that matter, any game where you actually face your opponent on the field. And because of that H2H seems sort of silly. I understand the rationale for having records and not just going with points throughout the season, because it's more entertaining. But everyone knows that there's nothing you can do about who you face or how many points they score.

 

In real sports, if you have someone's number, you have their number. You know, scoreboard. In FF, it's just a fluke if you happened to lose to the same guy twice or split and had him score more than you in those games combined. It's not because he's a bad match-up for you and it's certainly not because he's a better team than you.

 

Any argument based on "it's how they do it in the NFL" needs to be thrown out because it simply doesn't carry any weight at all. Not least of reasons is that you can be a great team that doesn't score many points in real football. You might have an amazing D and a ball control offense who makes clutch plays when they need to. In FF, however, if you manage a good record despite putting up no points, it just means you're a lucky bastage. There is simply no other explanation.

 

+1

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I always pushed really hard in every league I was in for points to be the 1st tie-break. Because FF is nothing like the NFL or, for that matter, any game where you actually face your opponent on the field. And because of that H2H seems sort of silly. I understand the rationale for having records and not just going with points throughout the season, because it's more entertaining. But everyone knows that there's nothing you can do about who you face or how many points they score.

 

In real sports, if you have someone's number, you have their number. You know, scoreboard. In FF, it's just a fluke if you happened to lose to the same guy twice or split and had him score more than you in those games combined. It's not because he's a bad match-up for you and it's certainly not because he's a better team than you.

 

Any argument based on "it's how they do it in the NFL" needs to be thrown out because it simply doesn't carry any weight at all. Not least of reasons is that you can be a great team that doesn't score many points in real football. You might have an amazing D and a ball control offense who makes clutch plays when they need to. In FF, however, if you manage a good record despite putting up no points, it just means you're a lucky bastage. There is simply no other explanation.

 

Agree 100%. The other team you're playing has no bearing on how well your team does, only how much you have to perform to surpass them.

 

IMO, thus is why there really is no better indicator of season-long performance than total points scored, since the game is based on performance, not true "matchups"....

 

Maybe if you have a 32 homer league with full rosters, and play the same schedule as the NFL does, then you can start making the argument that tie-breakers should be the same as the NFL...

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I always pushed really hard in every league I was in for points to be the 1st tie-break. Because FF is nothing like the NFL or, for that matter, any game where you actually face your opponent on the field. And because of that H2H seems sort of silly. I understand the rationale for having records and not just going with points throughout the season, because it's more entertaining. But everyone knows that there's nothing you can do about who you face or how many points they score.

 

In real sports, if you have someone's number, you have their number. You know, scoreboard. In FF, it's just a fluke if you happened to lose to the same guy twice or split and had him score more than you in those games combined. It's not because he's a bad match-up for you and it's certainly not because he's a better team than you.

 

Any argument based on "it's how they do it in the NFL" needs to be thrown out because it simply doesn't carry any weight at all. Not least of reasons is that you can be a great team that doesn't score many points in real football. You might have an amazing D and a ball control offense who makes clutch plays when they need to. In FF, however, if you manage a good record despite putting up no points, it just means you're a lucky bastage. There is simply no other explanation.

I've always felt the same way, but after arguing the point ad nauseum, and league members just not getting it (that HTH isn't the same when you're not actually playing on the field), I've become less and less passionate about it over the years. Part of me also says... why stop there? Since nothing about fantasy football is actually done on the field, why have matchups at all. Like you said, we do the weekly matchups because it's more entertaining/interesting. Supporters of HTH being a tie-breaker could argue that HTH makes things more entertaining as well, and I couldn't really argue with that, to be honest.

 

Bottom line... I'm in leagues that do it both ways, and I can see arguments/advantages to both. It sucks to lose out to the guy you beat twice during the regular season. It also sucks to score 200 more points than somebody, but have them make the playoffs (instead of you) because they beat you once. Personally, I still think total points is the better measure of which is the better team, but I'm not as dead set against HTH as I used to be.

 

I started a keeper league three years ago, with a bunch of guys from back home (MN). The league has three divisions, and six teams (out of twelve) make the playoffs (three wild cards). I intentionally set up the tie-breakers differently for the divisions, than for the wild card spots. I happen to like this format a lot... Here is how it works:

 

Tie-breakers for Division Only

HTH (or record against the other teams that are tied, within the division)

Division Record

Total Points

Total Bench Points

 

Tie-breakers for Wild Cards and Playoff Seeding

Total Points

Total Bench Points

 

In other words, HTH and division record only matter when comparing division opponents (who all play each other twice). In the event that three (or even all four) teams within the same division tie, HTH becomes record against those teams. We had a case this year where three teams tied, and each of the three swept one of the other two teams... So, HTH was 2-2 for each team. I had the better division record of the three (I was 4-2 and they were both 3-3), so I won the division. I also had more points, if it would have come to that. Team A (who swept me) lost to Team B (who I swept) on the final week. Team A made it in as a wild card, due to having more points than Team B. So, essentially, Team B played spoiler, knocking Team A from the 2-seed (division winner with a bye) down to the 5-seed (2nd wild card). Either way, win or lose, Team B was out of it (due to having far less points than myself or Team A). Sort of confusing, but I like the format, and it keeps things interesting.

 

We also play a double-header Week 11, so that everybody can play all non-division opponents once. One of the other reasons I left head-to-head out of the wild card tie-breakers is that you could potentially be comparing teams with an uneven number of games (if comparing two division opponents with a third team from another division).

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I am a fan of Gopher's method, where head to head and division record only come in to play when determining a division winner. I prefer going to division record as I am generally against H2H as a TB (but accept it as part of the game in some form), as you are considering common opponents only in those scenarios.

 

When looking at wild cards, you throw everything out from the determinig division ties and I prefer going to total points as the measure as IMO that is a better measure of who was the better team over the course of the entire season, which I feel should be a better measure of who makes the playoffs than some fluke one week result.

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I've always felt the same way, but after arguing the point ad nauseum, and league members just not getting it (that HTH isn't the same when you're not actually playing on the field), I've become less and less passionate about it over the years. Part of me also says... why stop there? Since nothing about fantasy football is actually done on the field, why have matchups at all. Like you said, we do the weekly matchups because it's more entertaining/interesting. Supporters of HTH being a tie-breaker could argue that HTH makes things more entertaining as well, and I couldn't really argue with that, to be honest.

 

Bottom line... I'm in leagues that do it both ways, and I can see arguments/advantages to both. It sucks to lose out to the guy you beat twice during the regular season. It also sucks to score 200 more points than somebody, but have them make the playoffs (instead of you) because they beat you once. Personally, I still think total points is the better measure of which is the better team, but I'm not as dead set against HTH as I used to be.

 

I started a keeper league three years ago, with a bunch of guys from back home (MN). The league has three divisions, and six teams (out of twelve) make the playoffs (three wild cards). I intentionally set up the tie-breakers differently for the divisions, than for the wild card spots. I happen to like this format a lot... Here is how it works:

 

Tie-breakers for Division Only

HTH (or record against the other teams that are tied, within the division)

Division Record

Total Points

Total Bench Points

 

Tie-breakers for Wild Cards and Playoff Seeding

Total Points

Total Bench Points

 

In other words, HTH and division record only matter when comparing division opponents (who all play each other twice). In the event that three (or even all four) teams within the same division tie, HTH becomes record against those teams. We had a case this year where three teams tied, and each of the three swept one of the other two teams... So, HTH was 2-2 for each team. I had the better division record of the three (I was 4-2 and they were both 3-3), so I won the division. I also had more points, if it would have come to that. Team A (who swept me) lost to Team B (who I swept) on the final week. Team A made it in as a wild card, due to having more points than Team B. So, essentially, Team B played spoiler, knocking Team A from the 2-seed (division winner with a bye) down to the 5-seed (2nd wild card). Either way, win or lose, Team B was out of it (due to having far less points than myself or Team A). Sort of confusing, but I like the format, and it keeps things interesting.

 

We also play a double-header Week 11, so that everybody can play all non-division opponents once. One of the other reasons I left head-to-head out of the wild card tie-breakers is that you could potentially be comparing teams with an uneven number of games (if comparing two division opponents with a third team from another division).

I can buy the "it's more fun" bit. I just lose it once they start bringing up, "The NFL doesn't use total points, why should we?"

 

I'm also not a fan of bench points. Depth should only matter if it needs to. If you've got a great starting line-up or always get the right guys in the game, that's all that should matter. Obviously, your lack of depth will cost you if guys get hurt or otherwise go south, but again, if they don't, so be it.

 

Also, bench points require fixed rosters, which I also don't like. Because otherwise, you reward a guy who keeps more back up QBs than some other lower scoring position. But you shouldn't all have to keep the same number of back-ups at each position.

Edited by detlef
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I can buy the "it's more fun" bit. I just lose it once they start bringing up, "The NFL doesn't use total points, why should we?"

 

I'm also not a fan of bench points. Depth should only matter if it needs to. If you've got a great starting line-up or always get the right guys in the game, that's all that should matter. Obviously, your lack of depth will cost you if guys get hurt or otherwise go south, but again, if they don't, so be it.

 

Also, bench points require fixed rosters, which I also don't like. Because otherwise, you reward a guy who keeps more back up QBs than some other lower scoring position. But you shouldn't all have to keep the same number of back-ups at each position.

I agree that comparing fantasy football to the NFL is ridiculous, and a very weak argument.

 

I also agree that bench points are meaningless... about as meaningless as a coin flip. With average scores in triple digits (as well as the use of two decimal points), I don't see my league ever having to go past the total points tie-breaker. The bench points thing is thrown in for the unlikely chance that we ever do have a tie, in total points, at the end of the year. Highly unlikely, but it's just as "meaningful" as the other tie-breakers that leagues use, once you get past total points... coin flip, how many points were scored last week, etc.

 

In other words, a good set of tie-breakers is set up so that you shouldn't have to get past step "X," but you add in step "X+1" just to be safe. At that point, you're not going to find anything "meaningful' to include as that final "just in case" tie-breaker, so you just pick something that is highly unlikely to end in another tie. In my league, the chance of total points ending in a tie, between two teams, is VERY unlikely. The chance that both total points AND total bench points end in a tie, between two teams, is next to impossible.

 

When it comes down to a 4th or 5th tie-breaker, it has less to do with how meaningful the criteria is, and more to do with how likely it is that said criteria is going to be different, between two teams.

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With average scores in triple digits (as well as the use of two decimal points), I don't see my league ever having to go past the total points tie-breaker.

Which is another reason why total points is great. It's almost assured that you don't have to go past this. That said, I get your point about bench certainly being no worse than a coin flip.

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On a somewhat related note, I've never understood leagues that have tie-breakers set up where step 2 is almost assuredly not going to be a tie, but then steps 3 and 4 could very likely end up in a tie. Seems backwards to me. Tie-breakers should, almost by nature, be set up in an order where each step is less and less likely to be tied (at least in my opinion). Example (that doesn't make sense):

 

1) HTH

2) Total Points

3) Division Record

4) Conference Record

 

And, yes, I have seen such tie-breakers in leagues I've participated in. Not that it really matters... Like I said, it will probably never go past step #2. But, it just seems silly to even include #3 and #4... Anything after total points should be used to ELIMINATE the tie (division and conference records are far too likely to be tied).

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Don't rip me for asking, but in out dynasty league our TIE BREAKERS within a Conference are

 

A. Head-to-head record - including group head to head winning percentage if more than 2 teams.

B. Total Overall Points

C. Division Record (only if all teams from the same division)

D. Dice roll

 

 

 

We had three teams finish at 6-7 for the Wild Card Spot...

 

How is A factored in with three teams.....I'm assuming that A doesn't mean over all winning Percentage since its for a Tie Breaker not a Standing..

 

The three teams where....Freeballers and Wingwanger are in the same Division

 

Freeballers

Gridironempire

Wingwangers

 

 

Week 1

wingwangers 117.1

FreeBallers 103.9

 

Week 3

GridironEmpire 182.0

wingwangers 102.5

 

Week 4

GridironEmpire 88.9

FreeBallers 97.2

 

Week 12

wingwangers 106.9

FreeBallers 132.2

 

 

Wingwangers 1-2

Freeballers 2-1

Gridironempire 1-1

 

Does Gridiron Empire Get in the play offs are Freeballers?

Edited by mrbass
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I always pushed really hard in every league I was in for points to be the 1st tie-break. Because FF is nothing like the NFL or, for that matter, any game where you actually face your opponent on the field. And because of that H2H seems sort of silly. I understand the rationale for having records and not just going with points throughout the season, because it's more entertaining. But everyone knows that there's nothing you can do about who you face or how many points they score.

 

In real sports, if you have someone's number, you have their number. You know, scoreboard. In FF, it's just a fluke if you happened to lose to the same guy twice or split and had him score more than you in those games combined. It's not because he's a bad match-up for you and it's certainly not because he's a better team than you.

 

Any argument based on "it's how they do it in the NFL" needs to be thrown out because it simply doesn't carry any weight at all. Not least of reasons is that you can be a great team that doesn't score many points in real football. You might have an amazing D and a ball control offense who makes clutch plays when they need to. In FF, however, if you manage a good record despite putting up no points, it just means you're a lucky bastage. There is simply no other explanation.

 

Then why don't you just have no one play anyone. And you give wins to the top half of the people in the league. That way, the top 4 points make the playoffs.

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1. Total points

2. Head to head record

3. Points scored in head to head matchup(s)

4. Coin flip

 

We have never gotten past Step 1. Arguably Step 2 is more likely to be tied than Step 1 and should be removed, but oh well.

 

Don't forget game ties, not just seeding ties. You can have ties during the year, but in playoffs you can't have ties. In our league we choose to have no ties all year long. Here we do use bench points, which is a little bit iffy I know, but we have a tight roster and only 2 open spots out of 14 in a 10-team league. And most of the time there aren't ties. How else would you determine the outcome of a tie playoff game other than bench points? We even have a second tie breaker for that, even more arbitrary: home-field advantage gets win if both starter and bench points are tied. That's never happened either.

 

Total points retains significant status in our league with a prize equal in amount to super bowl winner prize. Often as not, a team who did not win another playoff prize gets the total points win. The total is counted all the way through Week 17.

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