This 5th down crap is getting old

[detlef]

After the Washington debacle that their inept kicking team bailed the refs out of mattering, I personally witnessed two more yesterday.

 

First was the Indy game. I wish I could remember the situation exactly, but I do remember realizing that they should not have replayed that down. Gave Jax a free play.

 

Then Pittsburgh. How freaking hard is it to see where the first down marker is? Same story as the Washington game. Dude gained 9 yards and they moved the chains.

 

I've been watching football my entire life and I only even knew of an infamous 5th down situation once before. It was a college game with Missouri in it. Now it's happened 3 times in a few weeks.

[Menudo]

After the Washington debacle that their inept kicking team bailed the refs out of mattering, I personally witnessed two more yesterday.

 

First was the Indy game. I wish I could remember the situation exactly, but I do remember realizing that they should not have replayed that down. Gave Jax a free play.

 

Then Pittsburgh. How freaking hard is it to see where the first down marker is? Same story as the Washington game. Dude gained 9 yards and they moved the chains.

 

I've been watching football my entire life and I only even knew of an infamous 5th down situation once before. It was a college game with Missouri in it. Now it's happened 3 times in a few weeks.

 

On the Jax-Indy play, they ruled that the whistled had inadvertently blown the play dead on a flag that was picked up, prior to the snap, so, there was no play. However, I didn't hear a whistle, and I had never seen that situation before. Someone blew it and blew the whistle and threw a flag when he shouldn't have.

 

On the Steelers play, you are correct that it was a yard short of the first down marker. However, they didn't get a 5th down. That was a first down play. It should have been 2nd & 1, but, they blew it and moved the chains, making it first and 10. I'm not sure if that was blown by the officials on the field, or the chain gang, but, the definitely effed it up.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Menudo

[detlef]

On the Jax-Indy play, they ruled that the whistled had inadvertently blown the play dead on a flag that was picked up, prior to the snap, so, there was no play. However, I didn't hear a whistle.

 

On the Steelers play, you are correct that it was a yard short of the first down marker. However, they didn't get a 5th down. That was a first down play. It should have been 2nd & 1, but, they blew it and moved the chains, making it first and 10. I'm not sure if that was blown by the officials on the field, or the chain gang, but, the definitely effed it up.

Yep, but the next play was incomplete (or no gain, I forget which) and the play after that was a sack. Then, the play after that they converted a long 1st down pass. That play would have been 4th and long. Mind you, I do realize that their play calling would have likely been different had they been at 2nd and 1 rather than 1st and 10. But, we both know that you never know. So, in essence, they were given a "free" down by virtue of being rewarded a 1st down they didn't actually earn.

[CaptainHook]

The Jaguars 5th down was baffling. Carey threw a flag. The Colts stuffed the play. The ONLY reason Carey throws a flag and blows the whistle before the play happens is a false start. There is no other reason to blow the play dead. But Carey comes in and says there is no penalty? Why throw the flag? I never heard a whistle either, but it was LOUD.

 

The funny part is, Jaguars fans are complaining about the officiating. Jacksonville got every call in this game and still lost.

[SteelBunz]

Also......to be fair. In the Washington game last week, they did not get an extra down. The chain gang DID screw up. They didn't reset after Armstrong's 1st down, then somehow to "make up for that" skipped 3rd down altogether. And it looked like two 4th downs.

 

If you go back to the play by play (which I did during the game), they even call it 4th down twice there....skipping a 3rd down.

 

Net result is that Washington DID only have 4 downs after Armstrong's 1st down at the 2 to get that TD. So even though everyone screwed up the counting, they didn't materially change the game and give them a 5th down.

 

The officials are having a tough time counting from 1 to 4......I'll agree with that. It's almost like they rolled out a bunch of new chain gang members to get their feet wet in weeks 14 and 15.

[CaptainHook]

On a Jacksonville third-and-3 from the Indy 40-yard line in the first quarter, the Jaguars ran a play and Rashad Jennings got stuffed. There was a flag, Carey announced there was no foul and Jacksonville was allowed to replay third down.

 

“I blew it dead for a false start and we picked up that flag,” Carey told a pool reporter. “That means there was no play. So I shut it down, a dead ball foul.”

 

Was it an inadvertent whistle?

 

“No,” he said. “It was just a foul that wasn’t there."

 

If you follow that, you’re doing better than I am.

 

 

from espn.com's Paul Kuharsky

[detlef]

Also......to be fair. In the Washington game last week, they did not get an extra down. The chain gang DID screw up. They didn't reset after Armstrong's 1st down, then somehow to "make up for that" skipped 3rd down altogether. And it looked like two 4th downs.

 

If you go back to the play by play (which I did during the game), they even call it 4th down twice there....skipping a 3rd down.

 

Net result is that Washington DID only have 4 downs after Armstrong's 1st down at the 2 to get that TD. So even though everyone screwed up the counting, they didn't materially change the game and give them a 5th down.

 

The officials are having a tough time counting from 1 to 4......I'll agree with that. It's almost like they rolled out a bunch of new chain gang members to get their feet wet in weeks 14 and 15.

I would love to see the video on the Skins game but according to this story (which agrees with you, btw) it doesn't make sense.

 

When Washington got a first down on a pass to Santana Moss late in the game, the ball was spotted outside the Buccaneers' 12-yard line. However, the auxiliary first-down marker was set at the 3 — less than the requisite 10 yards.

 

When Anthony Armstrong caught a pass at the 2½ on the next play, officials awarded a first down.

 

story

So, it looks like he may not have gotten the 1st down. "outside the 12" could possibly mean that he needed to past the 2 1/2 yard line for the 1st. That they inadvertently put the first down marker at the 3 and, thus made it seem that he obviously made the first when he quite possibly didn't seems like more than just a minor mistake. It is, after all, a game of inches.

 

So, unless "outside the 12" was really "outside the 12.5" then they did, essentially get a free set of downs. Now, again, it was 2nd and less than a yard at worse, so who knows how it plays out. They had plenty of chances to pick up that half yard and reset the chains (though they were out of time-outs, IIRC and thus would have their options limited.

[SteelBunz]

I dunno.....I DID watch the game and without scrutinizing the inches, thought he got the 1st down around the 2.

 

Problem was the officials called it a 1st, then didn't give the chains enough time to reset. Everyone was SO worried about letting the clock run and the whole "place the ball and get out of the way" crap that they let good sense go down the tubes.

 

Discombobulated at best.

 

If Armstrong did NOT make that 1st, then yes......they got an extra down. The booth should have stepped in and called for a measurement or a review. Sure.....it would stop the clock, but better to get it right.

[detlef]

I dunno.....I DID watch the game and without scrutinizing the inches, thought he got the 1st down around the 2.

 

Problem was the officials called it a 1st, then didn't give the chains enough time to reset. Everyone was SO worried about letting the clock run and the whole "place the ball and get out of the way" crap that they let good sense go down the tubes.

 

Discombobulated at best.

 

If Armstrong did NOT make that 1st, then yes......they got an extra down. The booth should have stepped in and called for a measurement or a review. Sure.....it would stop the clock, but better to get it right.

Well then, there is that. TB might have been pissed about having them stop the clock to measure, so it could have been a lose-lose.

[cdrudge]

 

The funny part is, Jaguars fans are complaining about the officiating. Jacksonville got every call in this game and still lost.

I wouldn't say they got every call. I seem to remember a punt that had a "What the....???" outcome when Jacksonville illegally blocked us in the back forcing us to run into the returner.

[CaptainHook]

I wouldn't say they got every call. I seem to remember a punt that had a "What the....???" outcome when Jacksonville illegally blocked us in the back forcing us to run into the returner.

The roughing called on Bethea in the first half was completely bogus. His helmet never hit him.

 

The phantom pass interference on Lacey?

 

5 downs to get a first down?

 

A invalid fair catch signal that could have been called?

 

Jags got their fair share of breaks in this one. Still lost.

[detlef]

I wouldn't say they got every call. I seem to remember a punt that had a "What the....???" outcome when Jacksonville illegally blocked us in the back forcing us to run into the returner.

I must say, that may be the rule, but that's some cold chight if it is.

 

Tell you what, one has to wonder if it's worth taking a shot if it's even close. Someone blocks you near enough and you just stagger off balance into the returner? Worst case, you give them 15 yards, but that might be worth it if you may end up with the ball.

[keggerz]

The roughing called on Bethea in the first half was completely bogus. His helmet never hit him.

 

The phantom pass interference on Lacey?

5 downs to get a first down?

 

A invalid fair catch signal that could have been called?

 

Jags got their fair share of breaks in this one. Still lost.

He hooked his arm...it was a good call...probably couldn't see it at the stadium but it was PI

[CaptainHook]

He hooked his arm...it was a good call...probably couldn't see it at the stadium but it was PI

I will check it out. But even Jags fans on their message board seemed to acknowledge it was a bad call. That being said, a Jags message board is the last place I would look for quality NFL dialogue.

[Shorttynaz]

The Jaguars 5th down was baffling. Carey threw a flag. The Colts stuffed the play. The ONLY reason Carey throws a flag and blows the whistle before the play happens is a false start. There is no other reason to blow the play dead. But Carey comes in and says there is no penalty? Why throw the flag? I never heard a whistle either, but it was LOUD.

 

The funny part is, Jaguars fans are complaining about the officiating. Jacksonville got every call in this game and still lost.

I thought Jacksonville didn't have any fans???

[CaptainHook]

I thought Jacksonville didn't have any fans???