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The NCAA Hypocrite Bowl


Chief Dick
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No, it's Mallett's fault he threw an interception at the most crucial moment in probably the biggest game of his life.

Yeah, but the Hog receivers didn't exactly give Mallet much help with all those drop balls.

 

And will you at least admit the Arkansas player should have continued to try and pick up the blocked punt instead falling on the ball and relying on Mallet and his suspect receivers to win the game?

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It was blocked on the OSU side (which all punts of course are), so, from the ARK POV, it was already past the line of scrimmage, therefore it's dead. That's why no-one bothered with trying to run it in.

I think you're reading the rule wrong and I'm just about certain I've seen blocked kicks advanced in college. I think what you guys a thinking of is muffed punts. I believe it is those that can't be advanced by the other team.

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I had no rooting interest, so I didn't care which team won. They block the punt -- which is already an outcome of low likelihood -- and the guy falls on the ball on the OSU 18-yard line with 1:04 left on the clock, giving his all-conference QB a chance to win the game. If people are actually blaming him for the loss, they're the dumbasses, not him.

 

cmon man, of course I don't blame the kid for the loss. But let's get real - 1:04 obviously sending the house to block the punt, they get it easily, you got 2 Ark players with as easy of a cakewalk into the enzone as you can ever hope for- falling on it is pointless there really, how do you not have the smarts to pick it up and at least try and advance it?. It was a bonhead play, and it just amazes me that the special teams coach wouldn't be driving that point home prior to the punt. My mom could have picked up the football and scored from there.

 

And yes, the defense can advance blocked punts - see Virginia Tech

 

Anyhoo- OSU escapes.....

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I went to sleep at halftime, so didn't see the whole game, including the last pick. I'm also anything but a Malette apologist because he seems like a knucklehead and I hope the Niners don't take him in the draft. Then again, Pitt took a big knucklehead with a great arm and it's working out OK for them. :wacko:

 

That said, at least based on what I saw in the 1st half, I have a hard time blaming him as much as he's getting blamed here. His WRs dropped enough passes in that half alone to completely change the complexion of the game.

 

At least in the half that I saw, OSU looked way more impressive than I'd thought they were and I was absolutely prepared to come in and issue a mea culpa. At very least, they've got athletes for days. Mind you, they did score all of 3 pts in the 2nd half and let Arkansas back in it.

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I am way too much of a homer to come on here and spout off about the game other than I am happy my Bucks did enough to win the game. Just curious though, what do the impartial parties think of the safety call?

I'm a homer too, but that call, though technically correct, is never made. The whistle should've blown when his forward progress was stopped at the 2

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I went to sleep at halftime, so didn't see the whole game, including the last pick. I'm also anything but a Malette apologist because he seems like a knucklehead and I hope the Niners don't take him in the draft. Then again, Pitt took a big knucklehead with a great arm and it's working out OK for them. :wacko:

 

That said, at least based on what I saw in the 1st half, I have a hard time blaming him as much as he's getting blamed here. His WRs dropped enough passes in that half alone to completely change the complexion of the game.

 

At least in the half that I saw, OSU looked way more impressive than I'd thought they were and I was absolutely prepared to come in and issue a mea culpa. At very least, they've got athletes for days. Mind you, they did score all of 3 pts in the 2nd half and let Arkansas back in it.

Not to say you're one, but SEC-types seem content blaming it all on the dropped passes. Fact is, Ohio State played without 2 starting DBs and other key defenders playing hurt. Yet, they controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides, played faster, smarter, better coached and more ready for the big stage. They harrassed Mallett like he hasn't been in the SEC and sacked him 4 times, and hurrying him numerous more times. Their offense was innovative, their execution was crisp and the QB was better

 

Those are the reasons they won. Not just because the dude didn't run in the blocked kick, or because of the dropped passes. If we were infact to play the what-if game:

- Ohio State dropped 3 sure-fire INTs

-The extremely sure handed Boom fumbles with minimal contact

- A ridiculous safety is called on Ohio State with forward progress to the 2

-Punt gets blocked because pivotal punt-team regulars get hurt

-Davis is stripped, Buckeyes recover and ref waits to make the call even as he's right on top of it. Ball changes hands in ensuing scrum

- A sure-fire receiving TD is lost when Arky defender trips Corey Brown and it's not called

 

 

 

With all that said, in the second half, Tressel likes to go all python on opposition, and gets a woody for the field-position game if has a 15+ point lead. That coupled with the Arky punter pinning them deep all 2nd half, and they decided to take the surest way to victory by riding the defense. As a fan, it was excruciating to watch them ditch all that offensive innovation and call on the defense countless times; but that's Tressel-ball at its finest. and I can't argue with the final results.

Edited by Glabra
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I am way too much of a homer to come on here and spout off about the game other than I am happy my Bucks did enough to win the game. Just curious though, what do the impartial parties think of the safety call?

Terrible call from what I saw. I will admit it was loud where I watched the game so I could not hear what the announcers were saying, but just looking at the play and the replay it looked like a blown call. Now technically if the whistle hadn't blown the play dead then the officials probably made the right call if that makes sense.

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Not to say you're one, but SEC-types seem content blaming it all on the dropped passes.

Let me just say, last night's win was good for the health of college football. Had Arkansas won and then Auburn follow that up with yet another BCS NC Championship even diehard SEC fans would start to get a little bored. To be honest last night's Sugar Bowl actually makes me appreciate LSU's BCS NC win over the Buckeyes even more.

 

Sort of curious if anyone knows who the people sitting around Michigan sports bars were rootin for last night?

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Not to say you're one, but SEC-types seem content blaming it all on the dropped passes. Fact is, Ohio State played without 2 starting DBs and other key defenders playing hurt. Yet, they controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides, played faster, smarter, better coached and more ready for the big stage. They harrassed Mallett like he hasn't been in the SEC and sacked him 4 times, and hurrying him numerous more times. Their offense was innovative, their execution was crisp and the QB was better

 

Those are the reasons they won. Not just because the dude didn't run in the blocked kick, or because of the dropped passes. If we were infact to play the what-if game:

- Ohio State dropped 3 sure-fire INTs

-The extremely sure handed Boom fumbles with minimal contact

- A ridiculous safety is called on Ohio State with forward progress to the 2

-Punt gets blocked because pivotal punt-team regulars get hurt

-Davis is stripped, Buckeyes recover and ref waits to make the call even as he's right on top of it. Ball changes hands in ensuing scrum

- A sure-fire receiving TD is lost when Arky defender trips Corey Brown and it's not called

 

 

 

With all that said, in the second half, Tressel likes to go all python on opposition, and gets a woody for the field-position game if has a 15+ point lead. That coupled with the Arky punter pinning them deep all 2nd half, and they decided to take the surest way to victory by riding the defense. As a fan, it was excruciating to watch them ditch all that offensive innovation and call on the defense countless times; but that's Tressel-ball at its finest. and I can't argue with the final results.

For the record, I wasn't using the dropped passes as an excuse for why Arkansas lost, rather as to why Mallette was no more guilty than his WRs for why they lost.

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I think you're reading the rule wrong and I'm just about certain I've seen blocked kicks advanced in college. I think what you guys a thinking of is muffed punts. I believe it is those that can't be advanced by the other team.

You are dead right. In fact, Florida scored a TD from a blocked punt against Penn State on Saturday. This makes it all the more odd that ARK didn't pick it up and score. Falling on it must be what they are trained to do, I guess.

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A lot of if's, both ways. If Arkansas' WR's drop only half the balls that they actually dropped, it's a completely different game. On the other hand, if OSU's defense/secondary stays moderately healthy, they might have won in a route... who knows. Surprised me to hear about so many Buckeye players having cramping issues, like they were playing the game in 90-degree weather or something.

 

Like I said earlier, the OSU D-line was unbelievable... they were the difference in the game. The drops were just drops, for sure, but I also think the pressure on Mallett had him rushing all night, which may have contributed to some of the drops as well (having to get rid of the ball a half-second earlier than he would have liked, and wideouts not ready for the pass as a result).

 

As for the punt block, I think Detlef is right... they can be advanced by the defense. Even Todd Blackledge mentioned it in the post-game conversation (after I posted my initial question about whether or not it's a dead ball), pointing out that the defender could have scored. I guess I just got confused, when I saw him dive on the ball, with literally no OSU player in sight. Of course, it's easy for us to say that he should have scooped it up and scored. He doesn't have eyes in the back of his head... not knowing who is behind him, I can't say for sure that what he did wasn't the safest/smartest play. Hindsight is 20/20. The odds of Mallett and company scoring a TD, with a minute to play, from inside the redzone, have to be pretty damn good (I'm guessing 60% or better). If he would have tried to scoop it up, failed, and let OSU recover, he'd be ten times more the goat in this game than he is now.

 

Again, it just seemed like no matter how badly the OSU offense, special teams, and Tressel himself tried to let the Hogs back in the game, the defense just wouldn't let them lose (right down to the last play... INT).

 

Lastly, my hat goes off to the Razorbacks' defense as well... they played a heck of a second half. Not a lot of talk about them today, but they made a number of big plays... the safety, the strip on 4th and inches, etc. Great effort, and it was just as much (or probably more) the defense that got Arkansas back in the game, as it was the offense.

Edited by Gopher
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With all that said, in the second half, Tressel likes to go all python on opposition, and gets a woody for the field-position game if has a 15+ point lead. That coupled with the Arky punter pinning them deep all 2nd half, and they decided to take the surest way to victory by riding the defense. As a fan, it was excruciating to watch them ditch all that offensive innovation and call on the defense countless times; but that's Tressel-ball at its finest. and I can't argue with the final results.

I agree... It is painful to watch Tressel piss away leads like that. I was actually surprised that they went for it, on 4th and short, from inside their own 40. That seemed like a spot where he's going to choose to punt, more often than not. Still, if it's me (and assuming they go for it), I have a hard time not keeping the ball in Pryor's hands on that play.

 

As for the coaching, I'm not sure Tressel out-coached anybody last night. Maybe in the first half when, like you said, they used innovative play-calling to attack the Arkansas defense, and catch them off-guard. In the second half, not so much. The defense bailed him out, if anything, and won the game for him. Tressel has to be thanking his lucky stars that football is only four quarters, because if they had played six last night, I'm guessing there is little to no chance he wins that game, the way he handled the second half. It was only a matter of time before Arkansas caught up... they just ran out of time.

 

That said, I do think the better team clearly won the game, throwing all of the if's (both ways) aside.

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I agree... It is painful to watch Tressel piss away leads like that. I was actually surprised that they went for it, on 4th and short, from inside their own 40. That seemed like a spot where he's going to choose to punt, more often than not. Still, if it's me (and assuming they go for it), I have a hard time not keeping the ball in Pryor's hands on that play.

 

As for the coaching, I'm not sure Tressel out-coached anybody last night. Maybe in the first half when, like you said, they used innovative play-calling to attack the Arkansas defense, and catch them off-guard. In the second half, not so much. The defense bailed him out, if anything, and won the game for him. Tressel has to be thanking his lucky stars that football is only four quarters, because if they had played six last night, I'm guessing there is little to no chance he wins that game, the way he handled the second half. It was only a matter of time before Arkansas caught up... they just ran out of time.

 

That said, I do think the better team clearly won the game, throwing all of the if's (both ways) aside.

 

I find Tressel to be frustrating as well but your post is confusing and contradictory. The reason Tressel stopped the innovative placalling and airing it out is directly because the defense was so good. I think he felt more than comfortable with the lead he had at the half and that defense. To say they bailed him out and he got lucky is short sighted as he was counting on them to do just that, and they had all game. When things got closer than he thought he knew the offense had to make a play and 4th and a half yard is as good as any time to try and make one. The play worked but Boom didnt secure the ball.

 

However, your point about the game only being 4 quarters is spot on. He did luck out on that one. :wacko:

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I find Tressel to be frustrating as well but your post is confusing and contradictory. The reason Tressel stopped the innovative placalling and airing it out is directly because the defense was so good. I think he felt more than comfortable with the lead he had at the half and that defense. To say they bailed him out and he got lucky is short sighted as he was counting on them to do just that, and they had all game. When things got closer than he thought he knew the offense had to make a play and 4th and a half yard is as good as any time to try and make one. The play worked but Boom didnt secure the ball.

 

However, your point about the game only being 4 quarters is spot on. He did luck out on that one. :wacko:

But, it almost cost him. Why stop trying to score, with a full two quarters to play, when you know the opposing team's offense is capable of scoring as quickly as pretty much anybody in the country (except maybe the two teams we will see next Monday)? That's the part that I don't get, and let's be real here, that mentality has cost Tressel big games in the past. So, to say it worked out this time is fine, but it's a bit short-sighted to say that they won because of his coaching. Like I said, they may have gotten out to such a big lead (in the first half) because of some of his play-calling, but it's just as apparent (at least to me) that they held on (in the second half) DESPITE some of the calls he made. Not necessarily specific calls (I don't have that big of a problem with the 4th down call... it just surprised me a little bit), but that conservatism in general. Playing not to lose, rather than playing to blow out an opponent that you are leading 28-3. Works sometimes, but it's also been one of the things that Tressel has been criticized for the most.

 

As for my four quarters comment, I was being a bit facetious... Obviously, football is always only four quarters, so it's not like he really got "lucky." But, it just felt to me that the longer the game went on, the more likely it was that Arkansas would catch up or take the lead (hence the six quarters thing). You could say that Tressel managed the game the way he did, knowing exactly how long the game was going to be, but it just seemed like his conservative play-calling made the game a lot closer than it might have needed to be.

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But, it almost cost him. Why stop trying to score, with a full two quarters to play, when you know the opposing team's offense is capable of scoring as quickly as pretty much anybody in the country (except maybe the two teams we will see next Monday)? That's the part that I don't get, and let's be real here, that mentality has cost Tressel big games in the past. So, to say it worked out this time is fine, but it's a bit short-sighted to say that they won because of his coaching. Like I said, they may have gotten out to such a big lead (in the first half) because of some of his play-calling, but it's just as apparent (at least to me) that they held on (in the second half) DESPITE some of the calls he made. Not necessarily specific calls (I don't have that big of a problem with the 4th down call... it just surprised me a little bit), but that conservatism in general. Playing not to lose, rather than playing to blow out an opponent that you are leading 28-3. Works sometimes, but it's also been one of the things that Tressel has been criticized for the most.

 

As for my four quarters comment, I was being a bit facetious... Obviously, football is always only four quarters, so it's not like he really got "lucky." But, it just felt to me that the longer the game went on, the more likely it was that Arkansas would catch up or take the lead (hence the six quarters thing). You could say that Tressel managed the game the way he did, knowing exactly how long the game was going to be, but it just seemed like his conservative play-calling made the game a lot closer than it might have needed to be.

Fortunately or unfortunately, he's won more big games than he's lost with the python approach. Doesn't make it any more easier to watch as a fan, and I personally wouldn't do it that way; but then again, I haven't won 6 of 9 BCS bowl games...

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As for the punt block, I think Detlef is right... they can be advanced by the defense. Even Todd Blackledge mentioned it in the post-game conversation (after I posted my initial question about whether or not it's a dead ball), pointing out that the defender could have scored. I guess I just got confused, when I saw him dive on the ball, with literally no OSU player in sight. Of course, it's easy for us to say that he should have scooped it up and scored. He doesn't have eyes in the back of his head... not knowing who is behind him, I can't say for sure that what he did wasn't the safest/smartest play. Hindsight is 20/20. The odds of Mallett and company scoring a TD, with a minute to play, from inside the redzone, have to be pretty damn good (I'm guessing 60% or better). If he would have tried to scoop it up, failed, and let OSU recover, he'd be ten times more the goat in this game than he is now.

 

 

completely disagree - in that situation?? 4th down, ball 15yds behind the line of scrimmage? how does OSU do anything there by recovering the ball?

 

Special Teams coach should have been all over his punt block team to try and advance the ball and score should the punt get blocked. 1 min left, you better be trying to score there at all costs.

 

Just 1 play, but monumental really, and TD's don't come much easier than that. I don't see Frank Beemer's kids falling on a football at the 15 yd line with no one sight- those kids scoop it up and score........ just a bonehead play, and a heady player scores there with ease. my 2 cents

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Regarding the guy falling on the ball and not advancing it: to me, this just highlights a stupid college rule anyway. They should not be down until touched.

 

Nothing more stupid than watching a punt returner catch a ball and his knee touches the ground while he catches the ball. :wacko:

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completely disagree - in that situation?? 4th down, ball 15yds behind the line of scrimmage? how does OSU do anything there by recovering the ball?

 

Special Teams coach should have been all over his punt block team to try and advance the ball and score should the punt get blocked. 1 min left, you better be trying to score there at all costs.

 

Just 1 play, but monumental really, and TD's don't come much easier than that. I don't see Frank Beemer's kids falling on a football at the 15 yd line with no one sight- those kids scoop it up and score........ just a bonehead play, and a heady player scores there with ease. my 2 cents

You're right... I was thinking of it as just a loose ball. Nothing to lose, as it was going to be their possession, either way. My bad. My guess is that, right or wrong, that's what he was thinking, though (just fall on it, and secure possession of the ball). The other thought (and I'll admit this is a complete long-shot) is that if they score on that play, they probably leave OSU plenty of time (with two timeouts, I believe) to get in FG range, since there was still over a minute on the clock. I highly doubt that's what he (or Arkansas in general) was thinking at that point, but it crossed my mind. They're better off scoring a couple of plays later, than scoring on the block itself. Of course, not scoring at all certainly did them no good, which is why he obviously would have been best off running in the blocked punt.

 

Wonder if the guy who jumped on it is a defensive player, or mainly just special teams? Most defenders are taught to fall on it, regardless of the situation... might have something to do with what he did. Either way, great block, but not-so-great reaction.

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completely disagree - in that situation?? 4th down, ball 15yds behind the line of scrimmage? how does OSU do anything there by recovering the ball?

 

Special Teams coach should have been all over his punt block team to try and advance the ball and score should the punt get blocked. 1 min left, you better be trying to score there at all costs.

 

Just 1 play, but monumental really, and TD's don't come much easier than that. I don't see Frank Beemer's kids falling on a football at the 15 yd line with no one sight- those kids scoop it up and score........ just a bonehead play, and a heady player scores there with ease. my 2 cents

Yep, the only way possible that this comes back to bite them in the ass is if they kick the ball out of the endzone, which, from 25 yards, would require an amazing feat of lameness. Well, I guess it would also suck if they booted it and OSU recovered it in the endzone because then they'd just get 2 pts and the ball somewhere on their own 30-40 yard line.

 

Even if they somehow kick the ball out of bounds in the field of play, it's still their ball given the 4th down nature. However, considering that every OSU player is likely facing the opposite direction at the time of the block. Dude could probably have literally stopped, carefully picked up the ball, and proceeded on his way.

 

And I don't think there's a team alive that would rather have the "luxury" of taking more time off the clock over the sure TD. If it was a 2 pt game, maybe, but not one where you needed a TD. Saying nothing of the fact that they could have made it a 3 pt game with a 2 pt conversion. Giving a team who you've held to 3 pts in the half a bit over a minute and two time outs to gain about 50 yds and then convert a long FG? I'd take that every day.

Edited by detlef
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Yep, the only way possible that this comes back to bite them in the ass is if they kick the ball out of the endzone, which, from 25 yards, would require an amazing feat of lameness. Well, I guess it would also suck if they booted it and OSU recovered it in the endzone because then they'd just get 2 pts and the ball somewhere on their own 30-40 yard line.

 

Even if they somehow kick the ball out of bounds in the field of play, it's still their ball given the 4th down nature. However, considering that every OSU player is likely facing the opposite direction at the time of the block. Dude could probably have literally stopped, carefully picked up the ball, and proceeded on his way.

 

And I don't think there's a team alive that would rather have the "luxury" of taking more time off the clock over the sure TD. If it was a 2 pt game, maybe, but not one where you needed a TD. Saying nothing of the fact that they could have made it a 3 pt game with a 2 pt conversion. Giving a team who you've held to 3 pts in the half a bit over a minute and two time outs to gain about 50 yds and then convert a long FG? I'd take that every day.

Yeah, I'm not saying that's what the kid was thinking, and I agree with everything you just said. It did cross my mind, though, at the time... OSU stood a better chance of scoring themselves, if Arkansas scored quickly (rather than a few plays later). But, you definitely don't take anything for granted, on either side, so you have to score when you get the chance. Of course, the very next play was an INT... game over. No matter how you slice it, the guy who picked up the blocked kick should have made an effort to score. It was such a strange play, I immediately wondered (and posted) whether or not the ball COULD have been advanced. Clearly, he didn't have time to think about it, and just dove on the ball. Once his knee hit (which I agree is an annoying rule, compared to the NFL), he was down, and it was too late to do anything about it. But, that does go back to preparation from the special teams coach... those players, in that situation, need to know what to do in every scenario, ahead of time (so it doesn't become a situation of "he didn't know the rule" or "he didn't have time to think about it"). If you go through every scenario, enough times, in practice, it becomes second nature (which it clearly wasn't, or he would have picked it up and ran like his life depended on it).

 

Could be worse... Like the KSU player who got penalized for saluting the crowd, therefore making the 3-yard 2-poin conversion (to tie the game) an 18-yard attempt. :wacko:

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Fortunately or unfortunately, he's won more big games than he's lost with the python approach. Doesn't make it any more easier to watch as a fan, and I personally wouldn't do it that way; but then again, I haven't won 6 of 9 BCS bowl games...

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. But, I think that some of the reason OSU (and the Big 10) gets a bad rap is due to the fact that they manage to win some close bowl games, but lose others very badly. It would be nice to see OSU blow somebody out (other than my Gophers) for once.

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But, it almost cost him. Why stop trying to score, with a full two quarters to play, when you know the opposing team's offense is capable of scoring as quickly as pretty much anybody in the country (except maybe the two teams we will see next Monday)? That's the part that I don't get, and let's be real here, that mentality has cost Tressel big games in the past. So, to say it worked out this time is fine, but it's a bit short-sighted to say that they won because of his coaching. Like I said, they may have gotten out to such a big lead (in the first half) because of some of his play-calling, but it's just as apparent (at least to me) that they held on (in the second half) DESPITE some of the calls he made. Not necessarily specific calls (I don't have that big of a problem with the 4th down call... it just surprised me a little bit), but that conservatism in general. Playing not to lose, rather than playing to blow out an opponent that you are leading 28-3. Works sometimes, but it's also been one of the things that Tressel has been criticized for the most.

 

As for my four quarters comment, I was being a bit facetious... Obviously, football is always only four quarters, so it's not like he really got "lucky." But, it just felt to me that the longer the game went on, the more likely it was that Arkansas would catch up or take the lead (hence the six quarters thing). You could say that Tressel managed the game the way he did, knowing exactly how long the game was going to be, but it just seemed like his conservative play-calling made the game a lot closer than it might have needed to be.

 

I can understand your point and Tressel has taken years off of my life. But that is his style. They dont call him the senator because of his free wheeling lifestyle. But it works. Outside of getting his ass kicked by Florida in the NC and being in a NC against LSU, with a team that had no business being in a NC, he has been wildly successful. I understand the Big 10 is down, but how can you argue with what he had done. Not saying you are arguing but just making a general statement.

 

And for the record my comment on the 4 quarters thing was just busting balls. I knew you were being facetious.

Edited by Cameltosis
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Yeah, but the Hog receivers didn't exactly give Mallet much help with all those drop balls.

 

And will you at least admit the Arkansas player should have continued to try and pick up the blocked punt instead falling on the ball and relying on Mallet and his suspect receivers to win the game?

 

I admit that, ideally, he should've tried to pick it up and run, but that's with the benefit of hindsight. I read some of the coverage, and the kid who recovered it is just a freshman, and, even though they obviously practice the punt block all season, it was Arkansas' first punt block in a game all year. So while he blew a chance to be the hero, I think it's excusable, given he's an 18- or 19-year-old freshman in the Sugar Bowl, and Arkansas hadn't blocked a punt all year. Calling him dumb and acting like he cost his team the Sugar Bowl is a bit over the top, in my opinion.

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Yeah, I hear what you're saying. But, I think that some of the reason OSU (and the Big 10) gets a bad rap is due to the fact that they manage to win some close bowl games, but lose others very badly. It would be nice to see OSU blow somebody out (other than my Gophers) for once.

Believe me, if I (and every last Buckeye fan) had a choice between pulling my hair out in a 5-pt squeaker vs. a 3 TD SEC beatdown, I'm choosing the latter. So I'm totally there with you..That's not just how the Vest rolls though..I believe Tressel-ball requires near-perfection from the team and it puts a lot of pressure on the players. He doesn't have to ditch it, just adjust it a tad, for the love of God...but he's very stubborn, and it's unlikely he changes his core beliefs on how to win games

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