boltnlava Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 All this fighting over Billions between Millionaires seems petty in light of what has happened in Japan today. It would be fitting if they choose to decertify/lockout today of all days. Half the world sees us as money grubbing and callous already. This may seal it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Via Twitter richeisen Rich Eisen RT @MikeSilver: A good source just told me that management's offer "split the difference." The union hasn't countered   If this is true then I'm back in the middle. WORK THE DAMNED THING OUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 RT @MikeSilver: A good source just told me that management's offer "split the difference." The union hasn't countered  Play football! No excuses now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 Via Twitterricheisen Rich Eisen RT @MikeSilver: A good source just told me that management's offer "split the difference." The union hasn't countered   If this is true then I'm back in the middle. WORK THE DAMNED THING OUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 You should hear that big hippie az in the tailgate going on and on about how he loves him some unions. I mean seriously, I think he has an Obama tattoo or something. Darn crazy hippies. Â Â Yeah . . .Bronco couldnt have picked a worse guy to label Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 it seems the players aren't interested in negotiating. they just want to get in front of a favorable judge in hopes they'll get everything they want and they are happy to risk a lockout to that end. if this goes to decertification, I go from sort of on the owners side to all the way on the owners side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd Dobler Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Could it be that the plan all along from D. Smith and company has been to ask for the moon, and if they somehow got it from the owners, then great; but if not, they would prefer to take their chances in litigation before a historically pro-union judge? An all or nothing approach is great when it works out, but at this point if I were a player I would seriously be concerned that I had hitched my wagon to the D. Smith star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 "The union left a very good deal on the table," the NFL said in a statement. "It included an offer to narrow the player compensation gap that existed in the negotiations by splitting the difference; guarantee reallocation of savings from first-round rookies to veterans and retirees without negatively affecting compensation for rounds 2-7; ensure no compensation reduction for veterans; implement new year-round health and safety rules; retain the current 16-4 season format for at least two years with any subsequent changes subject to the approval of the league and union; and establish a new legacy fund for retired players ($82 million contributed by the owners over the next two years)" Â And that wasnt good enough? Ginsu them . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddahj Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 greedy bastages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 All this fighting over Billions between Millionaires seems petty in light of what has happened in Japan today. It would be fitting if they choose to decertify/lockout today of all days. Half the world sees us as money grubbing and callous already. This may seal it. AaronRodgers12 Aaron Rodgers Lots of stuff in the news today, but let's remember the people in Japan and keep them in our thoughts and prayers 14 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 AaronRodgers12 Aaron Rodgers Lots of stuff in the news today, but let's remember the people in Japan and keep them in our thoughts and prayers 14 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply  Just based on that tweet alone . . . . he is now elite to me . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddahj Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 AaronRodgers12 Aaron Rodgers Lots of stuff in the news today, but let's remember the people in Japan and keep them in our thoughts and prayers 14 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply   Just based on that tweet alone . . . . he is now elite to me . . . +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 So, I caught the coverage on ESPN last night. Dammit! I would be really nice if we had any idea at all who to believe. Â Dude from the NFL says the players have no intention of negotiating and that they've shown them everything you could expect someone to show. Â Then Smith comes on and says, they essentially showed us a list of who's making money and who's not. Â So, which is it? I wish there was someone who could call BS on which one of these guys is not telling the truth. Because, certainly one of them is not. Have the owners truly showed the whole picture and the players just don't like what they see? Or are the owners doing, as Smith says, just showing a list of who is losing money and telling them that they're just going to have to trust us on why they're losing money. Â What I saw was basically enough for anyone who was already convinced one way or the other to assume the other side is full of chight. Â I still believe that, considering the owners have already violated the spirit of the agreement with their side deal and the fact that they're claiming hardship in order to get a bigger piece of the pie, they should be required to open the books. This is very different than some group of employees just barging into their boss' office for no reason and demanding to see the books. Â I mean, if Detroit if claiming that they're losing money and then it shown that the entire extended Ford family is on the payroll for millions to do basically nothing, then I think the players have every right to call BS on the fact that the owners are just scraping by. Â And yes, I realize that the players could easily skew the info however they want, but there has to be some way to guard against this. And, that suspicion, in and of itself is not grounds to refuse transparency because you're basically demanding that they trust you because you don't trust them. I mean, call the players on their bluff. Show them the books, have the mediator present as you go through the numbers, and call BS on any silly claims the players make. Â But they should, however, be able to say, "OK, I see you paid this guy $2 million. What does he do? What about this guy?" And if, it turns out that you seem to have a bizarrely high amount of money going to executive bonuses and salaries, then the mediator should realize that as well. Â Also, keep in mind, that besides what the owners get to scoop off the top, plus their cut of the remaining shared revenues, there's a bunch of sources of revenue, I believe, that they don't have to share. Like concessions, and parking. I wonder where PSL's fit into it? There's no reason why that should be removed from the financial picture because it is absolutely money the teams are making by virtue of being in the business of selling football. I mean, would you go pay $20 to park your car and $40 a person on bad food if you weren't there to watch a game? Â And if the owner is truly a working owner, say like Jerry Jones, he should absolutely expect to pay himself a very good salary in addition to what he makes off the top. A salary in line with what it would cost to hire a guy to do that job instead. But if a team has a GM, and a president, and a bunch of other officers and then the owner pays himself a ton for some undisclosed executive position, I'm sorry, but that should be considered bottom-line profits. Because he's basically paying himself for being the owner, which is what profits should be for. And if he's already delegated (and paid for) every job that needs to be done and just parties in the owner's box... Â I mean, don't get me wrong, it's his business and he can work it out however he wants, right up until he causes a work stoppage and bases that on the fact that he can't make any money given the current scheme. At that point, I think he owes it to the labor to actually show that he's not just pretending to be losing money. And if that's the case. If these guys simply can't make a fair return on their investment and pay the players what they've been getting paid, so be it. I would hope the players would be reasonable and back off. Â Mind you, it would be the height of irony for the players to truly take a fine comb through the financial reports and scrutinize the efficiency with which these teams are being operated, considering how pathetically bad so many of them are with their own money. I mean, this should not be about, "Couldn't you save a little bit here or a little bit there, because if you did, I could continue getting paid a bunch and blow almost all of it on watches and furs." The only thing I think they should be looking for is egregious efforts to hide profits. Situations where they pay $5 a hot dog to a company that just happens to be owned by the owner of the team or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcmast Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) But they should, however, be able to say, "OK, I see you paid this guy $2 million. What does he do? What about this guy?" And if, it turns out that you seem to have a bizarrely high amount of money going to executive bonuses and salaries, then the mediator should realize that as well. Same could be said for plenty of players, no? Plenty of them get hugh $ and do squat. Edited March 12, 2011 by kcmast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I voted for ownership. My Dad, who just retired, is a union guy (pilot) and said he is torn on this issue. He has always said to me that a union exists because of bad management. I don't know that the NFL has bad management. Â Anyway, we were talking about the inflated prices of plumbers and how he hates the fact they charge so much for some very mundane work (albeit, I can appreciate the expertise they have when the crap hits the fan) and I said one word..."union". He was like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Owners. I don't find the players arguments persuasive. They are well-compensated. Ain't nothing special about them because they play professional football. Â We pay our employees what we pay our employees. They know up front. They are free to apply somewhere else after they interview if they think that they are worth more money. We don't pay them more in a good year, but we don't pay them less is a bad year. Some of us make more than 150x what some of our employees make. The employee doesn't like it - good luck at your new position at your new company. Â You want to see our books? You gotta be kidding me. Â If Drew Brees doesn't like whats going on in the NFL, he can do what at every other worker can do in this country - try to find another job. Â If Jerry Jones or whoever wants to risk his franchise - that's his business. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 With the vote being 60/40, I don't see why there aren't more people defending the players on this board. I guess they have too much work to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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