Bronco Billy Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Out shoveling horse #### for a couple of hours this morning (it's actually quite therapeutic) with the wife and had a great chance to think this whole labor disagreement through. I came to the following conclusions: I'm not angry that the players currently make so much money and are so well taken care of as employees of the league. I think it's great and a wonderful feature of the country we live in that some of these guys can drag themselves out of the abyss that they were raised in. There are some real success stories of players coming from dire poverty to make it in the NFL. I'm not pissed that some of these guys, despite a high school diploma and 3 to 4 years of college, can't spell or put together a coherent 8 word sentence if their life depended on it. Again, I find it highly commendable that despite their shortcomings that they have found a vocation where they can make more in 3 to 4 years than 50% of the people in this country can make in an entire lifetime of working. They have special skills and they have harvested those skills to make boatloads of money along with a superb pension system and an equally superb health care package. Hell, they even get paid large sums that can't be taken for any reason just for signing their names on a piece of paper before they have even proven they belong on the field with the other players. The percs in the league are second to none. I find all of this great for the players, and I'm glad they have the opportunity to reap the benefits of the league they have been fortunate enough to be allowede to participate in. What really rattles my cage is how little a lot of the guys appreciate exactly what they have. They are compensated extremely well, they have awesome benefits, they get a ton of time off, they get to do what they love for their vocation. They have been welcomed into an extremely lucrative world where everything has been established for them to do well and succeed grandly - established and run by others. They only need to focus on doing their jobs well enough that they get to continue playing the game as long as they are able. They are well taken care of at every turn. Yet they allow a weasel like De Smith to take charge of their union and listen to his anti-management rhetoric. He tells them how bad they have it, how they are being treated like dirt, how "they put their life on the line every day" (Yes, Smith actually said that. How offensive is that?). Smith hasn't earned #### in the NFL. He didn't do jack other than being a militant prick who has convinced these poor bastards that not only are they not employees but rather are partners in the NFL - they are not - and that they deserve not equal treatment as the owners of the business but rather that they are more imporatnt than the owners, and more important than the game itself. How can the players not look in the mirror each and every day and not thank everything that is important to them that they are have the position that they are in? How can they not realize how fortunate they are to have grabbed the brass ring and have reached the pinnacle? Instead they listen to and believe a piece of trash like Smith who does nothing but create chaos and attempt to tear down everything that has been built for these players to excel financially like they do? That's the only way a guy like Smith can achieve power in his position - by turning a great thing like the NFL upside down. Sure, some of the owners are despicable. Who hasn't had at least one boss in their lives who isn't? But what the owners garner financially from the NFL does nothing to diminish how incredibly fortunate the players are to be where they are, having the opportunity to set not only themselves up well financially for the rest of their lives, but also their children and in some cases their childrens' children. They get the chance to allow their kids to be born with a silver spoon in their mouths - all for playing the sport they love. Instead, what do we see? Almost 4 out of every 5 players piss away that golden opportunity within 2 years of being out of the league and are financially destitute. And now they are willing to get behind a scumbag like Smith who tells them that what they are getting isn't enough. That they have the "right" to more. It's downright sickening to see these opportunities squandered with such casualness, such disregard for the unbelievably rich situation they have worked their way into. I think that is what rankles a lot of people including myself. Not that the players do so amazingly well by themselves, but rather that they simply do not appreciate how fortunate they are, and how they allow themselves to be hoodwinked by a person with such nefarious motives. That said, I'm disengaing from all the arguments in all the other threads. They are pointless. If some people here actually think the NFL is screwing the players over there simply is no way to get them to see this rationally no matter how many facts are introduced. Venting ended. Have at it. Edited March 12, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I just want football! This sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
half_hennessy Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I actually couldn't agree more with what you have said other than shoveling crap, These players have been brain washed by a tool noone should be listening to unfortunately now it has gone to far for a simple fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddahj Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I just want football! This sucks! yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Good post, maybe Waterman will send it to D. Smith so he can say you're lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Maybe somebody could sprinkle some Franks Hot Sauce on that meat suit Smith is wearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 condescending much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Sorry BB didn't have the patience to read it all, but I'm sure it's a great rant. Course compared to the losers posting gibberish about that fag "sport" baseball, most anything would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) Man, that sounded really, really good. Other than being completely off base and out of touch with anything that resembles the reality of the situation, I thought it was an excellent read. The reality of the situation is that the players have finally figured out that they are the entire reason that any of the owners make any money whatsoever, and they're sick and tired of making some wealthy guy a wealthier guy at their expense, before being spit back out and forgotten about. They not only have a right to more, but somebody should be thrown in jail for allowing 32 rich guys to profit so ridiculously off of the blood, sweat and sacrifice of the heroes of the children, young and old alike. Players are finally starting to wake up and smell the coffee. The owners have been able to say "here's your million bucks, now go shorten your life for me and bang some hookers while you're at it" for 80 years now. Now the players are finally getting the guts to put their foot down. Kudos. I wish the rest of us had the balls to be so bold to the owners that we make obscenely rich off of our livelihoods as well. Edited March 13, 2011 by Seahawks21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricrelish Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Instead, what do we see? Almost 4 out of every 5 players piss away that golden opportunity within 2 years of being out of the league and are financially destitute. And now they are willing to get behind a scumbag like Smith who tells them that what they are getting isn't enough. That they have the "right" to more. I'm pretty sure that the NFL owners backed out of the last labor agreement. The players were content to keep the current deal in place, so they weren't asking for more. They simply asked what's wrong with the current agreement. The NFL owners said we're losing money, and no you don't get to see any real proof of that because we don't think you know how to read a revenue chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Maybe it's the ammonia smell induced logic on this but a fair and honest assessment none the less, BB. On the other hand, there is a ton of money to be made in the NFL. It is an entertainment business. Justin Bieber probably doesn't deserve all the money he gets and certainly doesn't deserve to have his political views taken as gospel either but that can be for another day. Do the owners deserve the billions of dollars anymore than the players? Probably not, although they bought their teams and probably did so because of various reasons, including making money or just because they can. The past few days it looked like the owners were the ones willing to deal, so if that continues it could be a majority of Huddlers moving to your side of the table on the issue. Like I said before, if a settlement would be reached tomorrow, nobody here would give a rattsass (sorry rattsass) on which side came out ahead on any of this. Everybody wants football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HutOne Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 The reality of the situation is that the players have finally figured out that they are the entire reason that any of the owners make any money whatsoever, and they're sick and tired of making some wealthy guy a wealthier guy at their expense, before being spit back out and forgotten about. . But isn't that the case in any employee / employer relationship ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Man, that sounded really, really good. Other than being completely off base and out of touch with anything that resembles the reality of the situation, I thought it was an excellent read. The reality of the situation is that the players have finally figured out that they are the entire reason that any of the owners make any money whatsoever, and they're sick and tired of making some wealthy guy a wealthier guy at their expense, before being spit back out and forgotten about. They not only have a right to more, but somebody should be thrown in jail for allowing 32 rich guys to profit so ridiculously off of the blood, sweat and sacrifice of the heroes of the children, young and old alike. Players are finally starting to wake up and smell the coffee. The owners have been able to say "here's your million bucks, now go shorten your life for me and bang some hookers while you're at it" for 80 years now. Now the players are finally getting the guts to put their foot down. Kudos. I wish the rest of us had the balls to be so bold to the owners that we make obscenely rich off of our livelihoods as well. This is hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Man, that sounded really, really good. Other than being completely off base and out of touch with anything that resembles the reality of the situation, I thought it was an excellent read. The reality of the situation is that the players have finally figured out that they are the entire reason that any of the owners make any money whatsoever, and they're sick and tired of making some wealthy guy a wealthier guy at their expense, before being spit back out and forgotten about. They not only have a right to more, but somebody should be thrown in jail for allowing 32 rich guys to profit so ridiculously off of the blood, sweat and sacrifice of the heroes of the children, young and old alike. Players are finally starting to wake up and smell the coffee. The owners have been able to say "here's your million bucks, now go shorten your life for me and bang some hookers while you're at it" for 80 years now. Now the players are finally getting the guts to put their foot down. Kudos. I wish the rest of us had the balls to be so bold to the owners that we make obscenely rich off of our livelihoods as well. I honestly don't think I've disagreed with anything I've read in my time here at the Huddle more than I've disagreed with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 This is hilarious. I'm pretty sure he's 100% serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) Bronco, I mention this only to ease your troubled mind. Much is made about the players squandering "enough money to set them and their children up for life". However, this 80% figure includes anyone whose signed an NFL contract. And for every guy who cashed in, there's a guy who's made the minimum for one year. Which, while a nice sum of money( though much smaller once dude pays his taxes and his agent and whatever draft prep specialist he hired pre-combine), is hardly enough to set up a guy for life. Moreover, many of these kids are a product of a system where men at every step of the way make a nice living by training these kids to do one thing and one thing only while sheltering them from the sort if life lessons the rest of us get. Because, as a coach of a high profile school, you stand to profit more by getting that kid on the field than you do by sending him a message that actions have consequences. So, just like it is foolish to assume that these guys should not have a stronger stance to negotiate a better deal than the typical working stiff, it is also foolish to expect that these kids, pushed through the system and sheltered from all the lessons you and I may have gotten, are all of a sudden going to look at $500k (but again, likely less) the same way you or I might. This is not, mind you, an attempt to absolve these players from any or all responsibility. Rather an attempt to dispel some of the exaggerations you made, either intentionally or because you simply got it wrong, that the plight of the players is nothing more than not knowing how not to squander the millions they all make. ETA: I was actually mistaken. The types of guys who are in and out in one year don't make nearly as much as I thought. Rookie minimum is about $300K (and was less than that when many of the people undoubtedly in this 80% figure played). So, these guys are supposed to enrich the lives of themselves and their children on a one time payday of less than $300K minus taxes, minus agent fees, minus whatever other costs they incurred in trying to build their draft status. Basically, I'm guessing about $100K when it's all said and done. Which, don't get me wrong, is far more than I had when I was 22. Then again, I also had the luxury of facing the cold slap of reality coming up through life so I already figured out how not to be an idiot by the time I was living on my own dime. You know, simple stuff like getting a job. By the time I could no longer afford to get fired from a job (because I was paying rent and such), I'd already learned what sort of stupid stunts would get me fired, because I'd already had it happen when I was 16. One could argue that, for a kid growing up on the wrong side of the tracks, being a gifted athlete could be the worst thing that ever happened to him. Guys are going to seek him out and groom him because it's in their best interest. As long as enough guys like him pan out, they don't care if he actually does. So, lacking a strong family, this guy becomes like a father figure, only he's not looking out for the kid in general, he's just trying to keep him on the field. And it's up to some 16 year old kid to realize that this is all wrong. I know I did stupid things when I was that age and I'm not sure how I would have turned out if, every time I did, someone was there to brush it under the rug. At any rate, if this kid does actually turn out to be one of the very, very few who do make it, that's great for him. But if he almost makes it he's completely hosed. Even if he makes it but for just one year and gets one nice check, he's still thrown out into the world with a completely useless skill set and an effed up perspective of what it takes to survive in this world. Edited March 13, 2011 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennykravitz2004 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 For me, I'm having a difficult time deciding if the NFL is a "real" business or not. Terms like "what the market will bear", "partnership", and others have me a bit confused to what (I see) as a "real" business. Sports in general do not seem to follow very many "real" business models. Even in other industries where unions exist, I'm having trouble making sense of this NFLPA stance. How different would this be if the NFL had 32 public traded companies, where true stakehoders have a vested "public interest" in ROI? Sure, we'd have public disclosure of the books, which may or may not clear this up. If this were a more typical ("real"?) business, would the public support these salaries the players make if they owned 1000 shared of the Steelers? Would the stakeholders get dividends, or would the escalating salaries eat into my investment as a shareowner? Would these players still play in this business environment, if salaries were half (for example) of what they are now? Personally, I do side with the owners, but not at an unfair expense of their workforce. I see this, and I think about how I would feel as a business owner. Whether or not I earned all the money to buy a team, or inherited a team as a 3rd generation owner, being told by by my workers what their pay should be sounds incredulous. Ironically, I'm getting my own annual review this week. If my boss were to come in and say, "we're cutting your salary 10%", I'd be pissed, especially based on my performance. This based on knowing about the "extras" the home office people routinely are given, and seeing how they throw money around at things like needless travel. Quite honestly, I am bracing for no merit increase at all, nor a cost of living increase. Not to toot my own horn, I'm a very valuable to asset to my company, just as many (if not all) players feel. However, if my money management skills rivaled the NFL players' own money management "skills", that is my own problem/fault, NOT the owners. Half these guys (total guess, maybe more of an idiom) come into the league with monster debt as it is - based on where they think they'll be drafted, they take out loans for houses, cars, etc. In addition to that, these guys went to college. If they make a choice - their own choice - to not finish and get a degree, that's on them. They're looking short term at the money they get, and don't think about what may happen if they blow out a knee. What are they going to fall back on after they're done? Do "real" businesses today help the employees who are let go (in the NFL, retire or just not signed) after they're gone? VERY rare, if at all. Is it the responsibility of the owners to make sure their employees are managing their money and prepared for an exit from the league? Obviously, my main issue stems around compensation. And the general inability of players to manage that aspect in their own lives. I would like to see the negotiations continue. However, move the meeting to a local veterans or women's homeless shelter. Have the people staying there be part of the negotiations. Have the owners and players look these people in the eye when they're bitching and moaning about slicing up $9 billion dollars, while they're looking at a homeless vet with one leg blown off by a mine. Or a mother of three who lost her job due to the economy, forced to live (or the best alternative to living on the streets) in a shelter. I don't know what to think about it anymore, I just know I'm tired of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I don't know what to think about it anymore, I just know I'm tired of it. Which is why I'm siding with the side that was working on an agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 The reality of the situation is that the players have finally figured out that they are the entire reason that any of the owners make any money whatsoever, and they're sick and tired of making some wealthy guy a wealthier guy at their expense, before being spit back out and forgotten about. I am so sick and tired of this lame rationale. Please name me one business where the employees aren't the reason a business makes money...just one. If I were the owners, I'd let these overpaid obese momos sit for a year...give them a real good opportunity to realize how good they have it while 1 of their prime years of playing swirls down the drain. The owners of movie studios pay actors hugh money so they can make even bigger money on the film itself. As a hotel owner, we pay big money to great GMs to execute our business plan so we can make even more money on our investment. NFL owners pay these guys big money so they can make big money. Is the spread bigger than the other businesses, and dynamics somewhat different? Sure. But so what? These owners were savvy enough to buy/own the teams, so they get the benefits of being an owner, and that's to line your pockets with $$$$. You wanna piss and moan, Mr. NFL player? Feel free to shop you talents anyplace else on the planet if you don't want to work under our very generous payment plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Pimp Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 The reality of the situation is that the players have finally figured out that they are the entire reason that any of the owners make any money whatsoever, and they're sick and tired of making some wealthy guy a wealthier guy at their expense, before being spit back out and forgotten about. The owners are also businessmen and I'm pretty sure they can find many other ways to continue to make money in the business world. Good luck to the players on finding other means to make millions of dollars besides playing football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 HELLOOOOOO!! THE NFL IS NOT BURGER KING!!!! We're talking about hundreds of guys that we are all familiar with. How many people do you know of from any other business on the planet?? If I see another argument trying to compare the NFL to any other business on the planet, I'm gonna go nuts. You guys just can't be that ignorant. Peyton Manning is just a replaceable product. Kinda like Urkel-O's. Now I'm wanting there to be a lockout. I want the players to leave and they can bring in replacement players, and guess what, the NFL will fold in five years because the product would be XFL quality. It is starting to sound like that is what you want. Kick the players out. Tell them to get lost. We don't need 'em. Just be careful what you wish for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 If I see another argument trying to compare the NFL to any other business on the planet, I'm gonna go nuts. You already are. Business is business. Whether you are unique or a franchise. Whether you are a corporation or a Mom & Pop store. Business is business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 HELLOOOOOO!! THE NFL IS NOT BURGER KING!!!! We're talking about hundreds of guys that we are all familiar with. How many people do you know of from any other business on the planet?? If I see another argument trying to compare the NFL to any other business on the planet, I'm gonna go nuts. You guys just can't be that ignorant. Peyton Manning is just a replaceable product. Kinda like Urkel-O's. Now I'm wanting there to be a lockout. I want the players to leave and they can bring in replacement players, and guess what, the NFL will fold in five years because the product would be XFL quality. It is starting to sound like that is what you want. Kick the players out. Tell them to get lost. We don't need 'em. Just be careful what you wish for. HELLLLLOOOOOO - YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS ARE YOU????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) Man, that sounded really, really good. Other than being completely off base and out of touch with anything that resembles the reality of the situation, I thought it was an excellent read. The reality of the situation is that the players have finally figured out that they are the entire reason that any of the owners make any money whatsoever, and they're sick and tired of making some wealthy guy a wealthier guy at their expense, before being spit back out and forgotten about. They not only have a right to more, but somebody should be thrown in jail for allowing 32 rich guys to profit so ridiculously off of the blood, sweat and sacrifice of the heroes of the children, young and old alike. Players are finally starting to wake up and smell the coffee. The owners have been able to say "here's your million bucks, now go shorten your life for me and bang some hookers while you're at it" for 80 years now. Now the players are finally getting the guts to put their foot down. Kudos. I wish the rest of us had the balls to be so bold to the owners that we make obscenely rich off of our livelihoods as well. Edited March 13, 2011 by BeeR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archiebonker Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Decide not to buy there products, watch there games and stop sending them your hard erned money. Watch another league in the mean time and forget about them until they realize that we are the ones in charge, not those greedy greedy bastards (both players and owners). Watch the CFL and play football with your kids or friends in the mean time. I love the NFL and all football. But it makes me sick to think that the lot of us can't punish them all in someway and make our lives better by waiting them out in the mean time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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