Big John Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I commented on a thread a while back (don't remember where or when) that I missed Gene Upshaw. http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=3391014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=3391014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The players are hoping the American public sides with them? Please. They are so out of touch with the reality in this country its laughable. They seriously think the American public will side with players that are incredibly coddled and paid extraordinary amounts of money? I don't think the players give a monkey's f*** what the great American public thinks. They only have to persuade one judge is all. As for the rest of your diatribe, I completely agree. Any sense of proportion, of reality, of perspective long since packed up and left town. The current rookie minimum ($400,000?) is nearly ten times the median wage in this country. Ten EXTRA weeks off??? Jesus, many people only get ten DAYS off and some of those folks don't even get paid for that. Originally I was on the side of the players but their pronouncements (slavery? ) and total blindness to the state of the rest of the nation's population has me not caring about the outcome of this at all. I can't support the owners because they are mostly just as greedy and stupid as the players but the players are slashing their own throats. Again, a pox on both groups. Bah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I don't think the players give a monkey's f*** what the great American public thinks. They only have to persuade one judge is all. As for the rest of your diatribe, I completely agree. Any sense of proportion, of reality, of perspective long since packed up and left town. The current rookie minimum ($400,000?) is nearly ten times the median wage in this country. Ten EXTRA weeks off??? Jesus, many people only get ten DAYS off and some of those folks don't even get paid for that. Originally I was on the side of the players but their pronouncements (slavery? ) and total blindness to the state of the rest of the nation's population has me not caring about the outcome of this at all. I can't support the owners because they are mostly just as greedy and stupid as the players but the players are slashing their own throats. Again, a pox on both groups. Bah. Exact opposite for me... Every time I start going to the middle in all this, someone on the other side spouts off a gross stereotype about how all of the players are "overpaid thugs", "out of touch", and talk about AP's ignorant personal analogy like he's supposed to have any credibility on the subject and is somehow speaking for the players' side (when in reality several players have already called his statements "misinformed"). None of this has anything to do with negotiations over a billion dollar industry, but it does continue to reveal a pure animosity here from some folks that these guys have been fortunate enough to have a highly specialized and sought talent that's enabled them to have big success and leverage to be able to do the same as what the owners are seeking to do (work out a deal that favors them)... This is not to say that they haven't been led astray by lawyers and guys like De Smith, and may even be bordering on greedy for all we know, but let's not make this something it's not... The situation, very simply, is a negotiation involving alot of money on the table. I think the lottery analogy in another thread was a good one, that everyone is going to have their hand out and have a differing opinion of what a "fair" dispersal over the large sum of money is (especially when no one but the owners have access to the books involved). This isn't to say that the owners should have to show it to them, but it adds another wrinkle to a very complicated dispute that we're all trying so hard to oversimplify and point fingers about... So until there actually is no football played, then I think Ursa's sarcastic response actually rings true; They shouldn't give a f' about the fans when it comes to their internal labor negotiations. The only matter of our concern should be that there's a product in time for the 2011 season, which I guess we'll have to wait and see about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 They should care cuz if they piss off enough fans, then the owners will feel even more empowered to do whatever they want for as long as they want. True, the "court of public opinion" is a whole other matter, which is of course the reason both sides are spinning the story every day, and why I believe they'll ultimately get a deal done this year. No doubt public opinion is a factor, but I guess my point is that, up until that point where there actually isn't football, it really shouldn't be any of our business. Our business is whether we choose to support and buy into it, not how they agree to divvy up the associated revenues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Wow, this issue is complicated. The NFL's legal team will argue that the "sham" argument can be brought up because the 1993 agreement is only valid if the union decertified after the Stipulation and Settlement Agreement (SSA). expired. The players union decertified before the SSA expired. Now, if you ask the players' legal team, they will have a different interpretation., so it all comes down to how the judge sees it. I just think the players are treading on dangerous ground when the general public believes it is a sham. If the judge does too, then the players may have made a huge mistake. Info Source I brought up this point in a thread a week or so ago, and yes, I do think the "before" part of the de-certification is indeed what the NFL will suggest is the sham part and demonstrates a ploy in an effort to not negotiate at the table, but rather through the courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) and talk about AP's ignorant personal analogy like he's supposed to have any credibility on the subject and is somehow speaking for the players' side (when in reality several players have already called his statements "misinformed"). I purposely left AP's grossly negligent statement out of my post. But, with one utterance of ignorance, he unpurposely help sway public opinion away from the player, not that it needed any more help. That said, I will no longer comment on perhaps the single, most offensive and grossly ignorant statement ever uttered by a professional athlete Edited March 18, 2011 by tazinib1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Nice to see the commish of football pulling this miracle of bypassing Smith and talking to the players. How he did such a feat, we will never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffraff Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) Players respond with 4 page letter to Goodell... on NFLPA letterhead paper? http://www.nfllockout.com/2011/03/19/the-players-respond/ Edited March 19, 2011 by Riffraff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) Players respond with 4 page letter to Goodell... on NFLPA letterhead paper? http://www.nfllockout.com/2011/03/19/the-players-respond/ Oh my. Objective successful by Goodell. I'm wondering if De Smith was aware of this letter. If he wasn't, I'm damn sure he is now I mean really, what is the point in responding? On NFLPA letterhead at that?? Dumb. Edited March 19, 2011 by tazinib1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffraff Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6227522 Two minor players sign with the AFL. With the league in a lockout, NFL players aren't permitted to use team facilities and are working out on their own. Two players will try to stay in football shape by playing the game -- in the Arena Football League. Cleveland Browns receiver Rod Windsor signed with the AFL's Arizona Rattlers on Wednesday. He follows the path taken by Dallas Cowboys receiver Troy Bergeron, who signed with the Cleveland Gladiators earlier this week. Both players were on the practice squads of their respective NFL teams last season and played in the AFL before joining the NFL. They remain under contract with their NFL teams but are allowed to sign with other pro leagues because there is no current collective bargaining agreement. Teams are not permitted to contact their players about anything during the lockout. "We assumed there would be players that would join the AFL. We are not sure how big the influx will be," AFL commissioner Jerry B. Kurz said in a statement. "We are confident that the NFL issues will be resolved and they will play this season. We work well in conjunction with the NFL and they have supported us and our players greatly." With the Rattlers last season, Windsor was the league's rookie of the year after 193 catches for 2,372 yards and 47 touchdowns. Bergeron played for the AFL's Georgia Force in 2005, 2007 and 2008. He was the league's rookie of the year in 2005. Others looking at other opportunities to stay in shape or compete: Tennessee Titans defensive end Jason Babin told The Tennessean Wednesday that he has received "feelers" from both the United Football League and the Canadian Football League. He also plans to start mixed martial arts training and might enter some competitions. "I know those leagues would love to grow their awareness and if they got a certain amount of high-profile guys to join in, the money would go from the NFL pool to the CFL or UFL pool and maybe they could negotiate a TV deal," Babin told the newspaper. "Now that would scare the [stuffing] out of the NFL owners if they could pull something like that off, you know? "So the NFL owners are fighting two fights. They are fighting a lockout fight, and they could be fighting the rise of the other leagues. They make themselves vulnerable the longer this lockout goes on." The 18-team AFL kicked off its 24th season last weekend. The season ends Aug. 12 with the ArenaBowl. The five-team UFL begins play in early August and the eight-team CFL begins play June 30. Some NFL players are involved in sports other than football during the lockout. Baltimore Ravens safety Tom Zbikowski won a professional boxing match last week and has another bout scheduled. "I wanted to get the ring rust off in this fight," he said after his win in Las Vegas. "Right now this isn't a second career for me. It's a first career." Minnesota Vikings defensive end Ray Edwards also has been training in the boxing ring and might make his fight debut in early April if the lockout drags on. "Right now, it all depends on where I am at in my career," Edwards, who is a free agent, told ESPN Mobile about a future in boxing. "If the lockout goes to August and I'm moving up in the ring, then different things can happen. There is a lot of money in boxing, just as there is in football. It becomes a numbers game after that." Cincinnati Bengals receiver Chad Ochocinco has a tryout with Major League Soccer's Sporting Kansas City scheduled for next week. "Due to the NFL lockout, I'm excited to be able to follow my childhood dream of playing for a Major League Soccer team," Ochocinco said Wednesday in a statement announcing the tryout. Edited March 19, 2011 by Riffraff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Babin is an idiot in about 7 different ways if he's serious in what he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) "So the NFL owners are fighting two fights. They are fighting a lockout fight, and they could be fighting the rise of the other leagues. They make themselves vulnerable the longer this lockout goes on." This is turning into a wrestling story line fast. If Eric Bishoff doesn't pay Hulk Hogan, then he's going to the WWE. Edited March 19, 2011 by WaterMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 "Right now, it all depends on where I am at in my career," Edwards, who is a free agent, told ESPN Mobile about a future in boxing. "If the lockout goes to August and I'm moving up in the ring, then different things can happen. There is a lot of money in boxing, just as there is in football. It becomes a numbers game after that." Yep...a numbers game. Pretty much sums up everything right there Ray. Thanks for clarifying that. And I thought it was about rings and the love of the game Silly me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I commented on a thread a while back (don't remember where or when) that I missed Gene Upshaw. I got blasted for that How many of you guys that blasted me then feel the same way now? That man was a HOF PLAYER, a man who had spend his entire life in the game that he fought for. I had respect for that. I felt the players plight when he spoke up for them. I feel nothing but finding myself being falsely led by a man who is an outsider, trying to convince me I must feel sympathy for a group of highly paid young men that are being in the middle of a gross injustice. Smith...you my friend, are the sham. You are the catalyst behind what could be perhaps the biggest sports let down of all time. It will be YOUR face that people will point to when asked what happened to the game of football in 2011. Yours Smith....just you. The nostalgia for Upshaw is interesting given your antipathy for the players. It was, after all, Upshaw who with a departing Tagliabue set up this mess with a CBA that the owners now hate thanks mostly due to revenue sharing. By 2006, Upshaw and Tagliabue had presided over a long period of labor peace. At that point they also presided over a pretty significant expansion in the league's popularity. As popular as it was in 2006, it pales in comparison to now as is evident in the TV deals and financing, public and private, for some ridiculously expensive stadiums. TV deals alone increased over $1B per year after 2006. There was pretty much zero talk at the time regarding concussions and health care and other issues facing the league today. Can't blame Upshaw or Tagliabue or the owners for a CBA that turned out to be pretty lousy, really. But you seem to have a negative opinion of the NFLPA and Smith when Upshaw employed a lot of the same zero-sum rhetoric and strategy... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2387218. Owners, for obvious reasons, opted out of the CBA that Upshaw negotiated. Both sides are leveraging the situation for maximum personal benefit. If that makes any of them villains, then they're all villains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 The nostalgia for Upshaw is interesting given your antipathy for the players. It was, after all, Upshaw who with a departing Tagliabue set up this mess with a CBA that the owners now hate thanks mostly due to revenue sharing. By 2006, Upshaw and Tagliabue had presided over a long period of labor peace. At that point they also presided over a pretty significant expansion in the league's popularity. As popular as it was in 2006, it pales in comparison to now as is evident in the TV deals and financing, public and private, for some ridiculously expensive stadiums. TV deals alone increased over $1B per year after 2006. There was pretty much zero talk at the time regarding concussions and health care and other issues facing the league today. Can't blame Upshaw or Tagliabue or the owners for a CBA that turned out to be pretty lousy, really. But you seem to have a negative opinion of the NFLPA and Smith when Upshaw employed a lot of the same zero-sum rhetoric and strategy... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2387218. Owners, for obvious reasons, opted out of the CBA that Upshaw negotiated. Both sides are leveraging the situation for maximum personal benefit. If that makes any of them villains, then they're all villains. My disdain for Smith is more than my love affair for Upshaw. I could respect Upshaw as a former player. This Pied Piper is leading things down a path of zero football in 2011. Are the owners just as guilty? You bet your ass they are. I'm to the point now where I really don't give a rats ass. I hope they cancel the entire Ginsuing season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 My disdain for Smith is more than my love affair for Upshaw. I could respect Upshaw as a former player. This Pied Piper is leading things down a path of zero football in 2011. Are the owners just as guilty? You bet your ass they are. I'm to the point now where I really don't give a rats ass. I hope they cancel the entire Ginsuing season. Buck up, chap, it's a lockout. You knew these things get ugly and never end quickly going into it. We're still in the first quarter. There isn't a person involved, be it fans, players, owners or employees that don't want to have a football season. I've basically picked a side and forgotten about it. Just trying as much as I can to avoid the whole situation and instead focus on the draft, my homer team, and any other football related story. This isn't going to be over anytime soon, and we're going to watch football in the fall. I still just basically hope the players get more money. I tend to think the players do a lot more to generate and earn the money than the owners do, while at the same time taking the majority of the risk, and I think they deserve the majority of the pie. At the end of the day, whether or not they get it, I'm going to care just about none. I have a feeling the retired players are going to get taken care of either way, which is really the only thing I could possibly lose sleep about. If there is a full football season, most fans will forget this ever happened. Just get it done and I end up angry at nobody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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