IDP Rookie Rankings

[darin3]

Feel free to comment, or add your own top-whatever list.

 

1. Mason Foster (TBB): Ruud is all but gone and we've seen what the Tampa MLB and WLB are capable of, fantasy-wise.

2. Nate Irving (DEN): Von Miller is the name you already know, but Irving is the name you should have on your mind. He'll have a shot at a middle spot in Denver's 3-4. EDIT: After further review, it appears as if HC John Fox has all but committed to running the 4-3, which will give the highly-touted Irving a shot at the middle. Joe Mays and Mario Haggan will be given a shot as veterans, but Irving probably has just as much of a shot if not more.

3. Colin McCarthy (TEN): Similar to Foster, he's in line for at least a shot at a good producing spot with a vet likely bolting in free agency.

4. Greg Jones (NYG): A highly productive tackler in college will only have to beat out two average prospects to gain the MLB spot for a good D.

5. Von Miller (DEN): We'll put him here since there may be a shot he lands on the weak side or at very least is able to put up respectable numbers on the strong side (think Aaron Curry).

6. Bruce Carter (DAL): Could easily be top-3 here given the fact that the Denver rookie LBs are, in fact, in a 3-4 that usually only has one producing LB and one (or more) of Foster, McCarthy and Jones could potentially flop. Carter's in line for a middle spot in Dallas. We've seen both Bradie James and Keith Brooking put up nice numbers in this scheme.

7. Jonas Mouton (SDC): Big-time tackle potential here as a candidate to start in the middle for the Bolts. Not much ahead of him here.

8. Quan Sturdivant (ARI): Could pair up with Daryl Washington in the middle. Paris Lenon is a journeyman and Sturdivant is the future.

9. Martez Wilson (NOS): Great for Wilson, not so great for fantasy owners. He gets to play for one of the best teams in the NFL and for an aggressive DC, but he'll be lining up on the strong side. The Saint SLB has actually produced alright numbers, so we'll add him in the top-10.

10. Casey Matthews (PHI): He'll have a shot at the MLB spot if Stewart Bradley can't stay on the field and Jamar Cheney fizzles.

Edited May 23, 2011 by darin3

[Brent]

Its well documented Denver is changing to a 4-3 D.

 

But these are much better than the ones originally posted on the site, that had Nate Irving on the bottom tier before.

[Sturphy]

Feel free to comment, or add your own top-whatever list.

 

1. Mason Foster (TBB): Ruud is all but gone and we've seen what the Tampa MLB and WLB are capable of, fantasy-wise.

2. Nate Irving (DEN): Von Miller is the name you already know, but Irving is the name you should have on your mind. He'll have a shot at a middle spot in Denver's 3-4.

3. Colin McCarthy (TEN): Similar to Foster, he's in line for at least a shot at a good producing spot with a vet likely bolting in free agency.

4. Greg Jones (NYG): A highly productive tackler in college will only have to beat out two average prospects to gain the MLB spot for a good D.

5. Von Miller (DEN): We'll put him here since there may be a shot he lands on the weak side or at very least is able to put up respectable numbers on the strong side (think Aaron Curry).

6. Bruce Carter (DAL): Could easily be top-3 here given the fact that the Denver rookie LBs are, in fact, in a 3-4 that usually only has one producing LB and one (or more) of Foster, McCarthy and Jones could potentially flop. Carter's in line for a middle spot in Dallas. We've seen both Bradie James and Keith Brooking put up nice numbers in this scheme.

7. Jonas Mouton (SDC): Big-time tackle potential here as a candidate to start in the middle for the Bolts. Not much ahead of him here.

8. Quan Sturdivant (ARI): Could pair up with Daryl Washington in the middle. Paris Lenon is a journeyman and Sturdivant is the future.

9. Martez Wilson (NOS): Great for Wilson, not so great for fantasy owners. He gets to play for one of the best teams in the NFL and for an aggressive DC, but he'll be lining up on the strong side. The Saint SLB has actually produced alright numbers, so we'll add him in the top-10.

10. Casey Matthews (PHI): He'll have a shot at the MLB spot if Stewart Bradley can't stay on the field and Jamar Cheney fizzles.

I guess the question is where Ruud lands, and what that means to any of these guys. Would be nice to know where the FA's are going to land!

[darin3]

Its well documented Denver is changing to a 4-3 D.

 

But these are much better than the ones originally posted on the site, that had Nate Irving on the bottom tier before.

Everything I read said the switch was "likely". Until it happens, I'll go off depth charts from trusted sources.

 

And the original "rankings", which weren't even rankings, were written the day of the draft. The writeup was done based on talent, where they landed and opinion. Things obviously change.

Edited May 22, 2011 by darin3

[darin3]

I guess the question is where Ruud lands, and what that means to any of these guys. Would be nice to know where the FA's are going to land!

I've heard that the Giants would be a possibility, which would stink for those that drafted Greg Jones. Hopefully this stinkin' lockout will end sooner rather than later so we can get a ton more clarity.

[Bronco Billy]

Pretty solid list.

 

Pretty "meh" LB class. The one bonfide sure-fire stud, Von Miller lands where he'll probabaly have to play SLB. His outrageous talent will get him numbers, but his upside won't be a LB1 because of his position. The other uber-stud in this class is Carter, and he would have been a top 15 pick this year if he hadn't hurt his knee. He's got Brooking and James impeding him at ILB, but by all accounts his knee will be healthy by the time training camp starts (or whenever the owners/players knock off this silly ####). If that's the case, he's got enough talent to push both those guys into backup roies and push Lee over to SILB. It will more probably take a year for him to have a throttle on the position, at which time he ought to put up LB1 numbers. In the meantime, he'll get some rotation that will likely get greater as the season wears on.

 

The unresolved labor situation has both Foster's and McCarthy's status up in the air. Foster could end up replacing Black instead of Ruud depending upon what Ruud's disposition is and whether his price is enough to match and let Black move on in FA instead. Tulloch may not be on the move either, as TEN has made it plain they'd like to resign him. Both Ruud and Tulloch have some limitations in their games (as do Foster and McCarthy) and it wouldn't be a huge surprise if NFL teams didn't run their price tags up too high for them to be resigned by their existing teams.

 

Irving is a bit of a wild card. The MLB position in DEN is a lot clearer than that in TB & TEN, and it looks like Elway/Fox have made a committment to taking this year on the chin to get their young guys some experience, meaning he would be willing to start 2 rookie LBs despite not having a lot of help with quality DLs in front of them. Still, there is Haggans who was very productive and could give Irving a run for his money at MLB, but I like Irving's chances to start at MLB, though his numbers may not be great simply because he won't have a DL to keep blockers off him while he's scraping.

 

I'm not impressed by Mouton or Matthews at all, and think they are both at most average NFL LBs, and could end up being depth. Mouton will get a shot to start at ILB for SD given his draft position, but I don't think he brings enough to the table to put up great numbers and he may not even bring enough to win a starting spot. Matthews is not equipped to play starting MLB in the NFL, and he's very limited on the edge. His motor is just as good as his brother's, but that alone doesn't win starting LBs spots. I see Matthews as a depth LB who will start in the event of injuries.

 

I like Sturdivant's ability meshing with the opportunity in AZ, and I like the exact same scenario with Jones in NY. Both guys have average or worse competition at the spot, and both guys were extremely productive in those positions in college. I think both these guys fit right in perfectly with their teams and both have the talent and ability to stick in those spots for years putting up LB2 numbers. You do worry about how FA will shake out though and whether guys like Ruud and Tulloch will put road blocks in their paths. NY seems more prone to signing a MLB, while AZ will be awfully young across the LB layer if they don't sign a vet in FA.

 

Martez Wilson will have to fight for his SLB spot, and he's not the most spectacular LB that he's a lock to win the spot. Even if he does, NO has enough depth there where he might lose snaps to rotation/situation, and SLB in NO is not condusive to good numbers.

 

I think some other guys to keep an eye on who have a good chance of putting up decent FF LB numbers are Ayers, A Smith, and Reed. Neither Ayers nor Reed has enough talent to move way up the board, and neither will be in a position to run up big numbers through attrition, but I see both these guys as being very competent LB3s for FF. Smith could end up as Manny Lawson's replacement because SF is looking for more pass rush ability out of that position, and Lawson isn't as a good a rusher as a cover LB. Smith could put up very solid LB3 numbers with some big games in leagues that put premiums on sacks.

 

I'd place them like this for FF, knowing that FA may change some situations dramatically:

 

1) Carter - 2011 LB3 with late gain, going to LB1 in 2012 and beyond

2) Miller - LB2

3) Irving - LB2/LB3

4) Sturdivant - LB2/LB3

5) Jones - LB2/LB3

6) Foster - LB1 upside with potential of LB3 or worse numbers if Ruud doesn't move (if Ruud moves he goes to #2 on the list)

7) McCarthy - LB1/LB2 upside with little value if Tulloch doesn't move (if Tulloch moves he goes to #4 on the list)

8) A Smith - LB3 if Lawson moves on, LB4 if he doesn't because he'll have a few big games in big play leagues.

9) Ayers - LB3

10) Mouton - LB2/LB3 upside with a chance of little value as a depth/ST contributor

11) Wilson - LB3

12) Reed - LB3

13) Matthews - LB4 with some downside

Edited May 23, 2011 by Bronco Billy

[darin3]

Irving is a bit of a wild card. The MLB position in DEN is a lot clearer than that in TB & TEN, and it looks like Elway/Fox have made a committment to taking this year on the chin to get their young guys some experience, meaning he would be willing to start 2 rookie LBs despite not having a lot of help with quality DLs in front of them. Still, there is Haggans who was very productive and could give Irving a run for his money at MLB, but I like Irving's chances to start at MLB, though his numbers may not be great simply because he won't have a DL to keep blockers off him while he's scraping.

Good reply and list. Appreciate the well-thought out response.

 

So I'm assuming from this that the Denver switch to the 4-3 is done. Perhaps I need to re-evaluate the sources I'm using for depth chart info.

[Bronco Billy]

Good reply and list. Appreciate the well-thought out response.

 

So I'm assuming from this that the Denver switch to the 4-3 is done.

 

DEN going to a 4-3 was a done deal within a day or two of Fox being hired - and they were very candid about it.

[darin3]

DEN going to a 4-3 was a done deal within a day or two of Fox being hired - and they were very candid about it.

 

Broncos likely to switch to 4-3

By Bill Williamson

 

The Denver Broncos just officially announced the hiring of New Orleans secondary coach Dennis Allen as their defensive coordinator.

 

Denver also hired linebackers coach Richard Smith and linebacker coach Ron Milus. Both Smith and Milus were with John Fox in Carolina. Fox has now brought five of his Carolina coaches with him to Denver. The pair both coached in Denver under Mike Shanahan and Smith was a defensive coordinator in the NFL.

 

Allen, 38, is beginning his first stint as an NFL defensive coordinator. He is considered one of the bright young defensive minds in the league and in addition to Smith, Allen can also rely on Fox –- a defensive specialist -- as he grows into his new job. The Broncos hope Allen will bring stability to a unit that has had six different coordinators in six seasons. They were last in the NFL in 2010 in total defense and points allowed under coordinator Don Martindale.

 

Fox has previously said he was open to running either a 4-3 or a 3-4 defensive front scheme. Fox ran a 4-3 in Carolina and Allen has been coaching a 4-3. Denver has used a 3-4 defense for the past two seasons and team will likely add a lot of players on the defensive line and linebacker, so a switch to the 4-3 would matter much.

 

The key to the switch will be finding to effectively use Elvis Dumervil. Shanahan drafted Dumervil and the fifth-year linebacker flourished in a 3-4 defense in 2009. Dumervil, who was given a huge contract last summer, led the NFL with 17 sacks in 2009 but missed the entire 2010 season with a pectoral injury. He will probably be moved back to a rush end spot in the 4-3.

 

With Allen being hired, there are now two key coaching openings remaining in the AFC West. Kansas City needs an offensive coordinator and Oakland needs a defensive coordinator.

[Sturphy]

DEN going to a 4-3 was a done deal within a day or two of Fox being hired - and they were very candid about it.

This is what I recall as well. I became excited about Robert Ayers again... who I almost cut from my taxi squad last season.

[Brent]

Pretty solid list.

 

Pretty "meh" LB class. The one bonfide sure-fire stud, Von Miller lands where he'll probabaly have to play SLB. His outrageous talent will get him numbers, but his upside won't be a LB1 because of his position. The other uber-stud in this class is Carter, and he would have been a top 15 pick this year if he hadn't hurt his knee. He's got Brooking and James impeding him at ILB, but by all accounts his knee will be healthy by the time training camp starts (or whenever the owners/players knock off this silly ####). If that's the case, he's got enough talent to push both those guys into backup roies and push Lee over to SILB. It will more probably take a year for him to have a throttle on the position, at which time he ought to put up LB1 numbers. In the meantime, he'll get some rotation that will likely get greater as the season wears on.

 

The unresolved labor situation has both Foster's and McCarthy's status up in the air. Foster could end up replacing Black instead of Ruud depending upon what Ruud's disposition is and whether his price is enough to match and let Black move on in FA instead. Tulloch may not be on the move either, as TEN has made it plain they'd like to resign him. Both Ruud and Tulloch have some limitations in their games (as do Foster and McCarthy) and it wouldn't be a huge surprise if NFL teams didn't run their price tags up too high for them to be resigned by their existing teams.

 

Irving is a bit of a wild card. The MLB position in DEN is a lot clearer than that in TB & TEN, and it looks like Elway/Fox have made a committment to taking this year on the chin to get their young guys some experience, meaning he would be willing to start 2 rookie LBs despite not having a lot of help with quality DLs in front of them. Still, there is Haggans who was very productive and could give Irving a run for his money at MLB, but I like Irving's chances to start at MLB, though his numbers may not be great simply because he won't have a DL to keep blockers off him while he's scraping.

 

I'm not impressed by Mouton or Matthews at all, and think they are both at most average NFL LBs, and could end up being depth. Mouton will get a shot to start at ILB for SD given his draft position, but I don't think he brings enough to the table to put up great numbers and he may not even bring enough to win a starting spot. Matthews is not equipped to play starting MLB in the NFL, and he's very limited on the edge. His motor is just as good as his brother's, but that alone doesn't win starting LBs spots. I see Matthews as a depth LB who will start in the event of injuries.

 

I like Sturdivant's ability meshing with the opportunity in AZ, and I like the exact same scenario with Jones in NY. Both guys have average or worse competition at the spot, and both guys were extremely productive in those positions in college. I think both these guys fit right in perfectly with their teams and both have the talent and ability to stick in those spots for years putting up LB2 numbers. You do worry about how FA will shake out though and whether guys like Ruud and Tulloch will put road blocks in their paths. NY seems more prone to signing a MLB, while AZ will be awfully young across the LB layer if they don't sign a vet in FA.

 

Martez Wilson will have to fight for his SLB spot, and he's not the most spectacular LB that he's a lock to win the spot. Even if he does, NO has enough depth there where he might lose snaps to rotation/situation, and SLB in NO is not condusive to good numbers.

 

I think some other guys to keep an eye on who have a good chance of putting up decent FF LB numbers are Ayers, A Smith, and Reed. Neither Ayers nor Reed has enough talent to move way up the board, and neither will be in a position to run up big numbers through attrition, but I see both these guys as being very competent LB3s for FF. Smith could end up as Manny Lawson's replacement because SF is looking for more pass rush ability out of that position, and Lawson isn't as a good a rusher as a cover LB. Smith could put up very solid LB3 numbers with some big games in leagues that put premiums on sacks.

 

I'd place them like this for FF, knowing that FA may change some situations dramatically:

 

1) Carter - 2011 LB3 with late gain, going to LB1 in 2012 and beyond

2) Miller - LB2

3) Irving - LB2/LB3

4) Sturdivant - LB2/LB3

5) Jones - LB2/LB3

6) Foster - LB1 upside with potential of LB3 or worse numbers if Ruud doesn't move (if Ruud moves he goes to #2 on the list)

7) McCarthy - LB1/LB2 upside with little value if Tulloch doesn't move (if Tulloch moves he goes to #4 on the list)

8) A Smith - LB3 if Lawson moves on, LB4 if he doesn't because he'll have a few big games in big play leagues.

9) Ayers - LB3

10) Mouton - LB2/LB3 upside with a chance of little value as a depth/ST contributor

11) Wilson - LB3

12) Reed - LB3

13) Matthews - LB4 with some downside

 

 

Another guy to keep an eye on is kelvin sheppard out of LSU, in Buffalo. He has more talent than more than half the guys on this list, and could have an opportunity to start for Buffalo inside this season.

[darin3]

Another guy to keep an eye on is kelvin sheppard out of LSU, in Buffalo. He has more talent than more than half the guys on this list, and could have an opportunity to start for Buffalo inside this season.

FWIW, Sheppard would have been one of the next couple to make my list. He's a tackling machine that should fit right in with the Bills.

[Bronco Billy]

Another guy to keep an eye on is kelvin sheppard out of LSU, in Buffalo. He has more talent than more than half the guys on this list, and could have an opportunity to start for Buffalo inside this season.

 

Sheppard's got the size, speed, and the pop to play ILB for BUF. I think what will hold him back and may keep him as nothing more than a backup/ST player is that he struggles to make quick diagnoses of plays - and you'll see him taking stutter steps to keep his feet moving as he tries to work through the play - and that he has a really difficult time disengaging from blocks once he's been locked on. The guy is a flat-out missile once he's got the play figured out and he's free to line up his target, though

[darin3]

Sheppard's got the size, speed, and the pop to play ILB for BUF. I think what will hold him back and may keep him as nothing more than a backup/ST player is that he struggles to make quick diagnoses of plays - and you'll see him taking stutter steps to keep his feet moving as he tries to work through the play - and that he has a really difficult time disengaging from blocks once he's been locked on. The guy is a flat-out missile once he's got the play figured out and he's free to line up his target, though

I saw him play plenty at LSU and what I gather is that he's an awesome run-stopper but probably below-average in pass coverage. Based on what the Bills have/need, he might make a pretty immediate impact.

[Brent]

I saw him play plenty at LSU and what I gather is that he's an awesome run-stopper but probably below-average in pass coverage. Based on what the Bills have/need, he might make a pretty immediate impact.

 

so wouldnt you think he deserved to be ranked then?

 

and ahead of many of those on these lists.

 

Just sayin....

Edited May 25, 2011 by Brent

[darin3]

so wouldnt you think he deserved to be ranked then?

 

and ahead of many of those on these lists.

 

Just sayin....

If I thought he should have been ranked, he would have been ranked. Feel free to offer up your own list rather than come in here and pick at others' opinions.

[tazinib1]

Justin Houston is another guy you can get pretty late in the draft that might have some nice upside in 2 years or so.

[Bronco Billy]

so wouldnt you think he deserved to be ranked then?

 

and ahead of many of those on these lists.

 

Just sayin....

 

I gave you my reasons for not ranking him. I don't think he can start consistently at the NFL level. His flaws outweigh his tremendous talent, IMO.

 

And I've sure been wrong enough times to know that I could very well be wrong here too.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Bronco Billy

[darin3]

And I've sure been wrong enough times to know that I could very well be wrong here too.

[detlef] You don't say... [/detlef]

 

[tazinib1]

[detlef] You don't say... [/detlef]

 

 

[Brent]

If I thought he should have been ranked, he would have been ranked. Feel free to offer up your own list rather than come in here and pick at others' opinions.

 

 

 

I saw him play plenty at LSU and what I gather is that he's an awesome run-stopper but probably below-average in pass coverage. Based on what the Bills have/need, he might make a pretty immediate impact.

 

 

 

I didnt come in here to pick anyones list apart, I simply mentioned watch out for this guy, but if you think this above, why isnt he in your list. How many people do you think of the same way, awesome run stopper, and may make an immediate impact. BTW, in a 3-4 D, both ILB dont need to be able to cover.

 

Im not even saying he will make an immediate impact, or Id have him in my top tier, though I have him ranked as my 5th LB.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Brent

[darin3]

I didnt come in here to pick anyones list apart, I simply mentioned watch out for this guy, but if you think this above, why isnt he in your list. How many people do you think of the same way, awesome run stopper, and may make an immediate impact. BTW, in a 3-4 D, both ILB dont need to be able to cover.

 

Im not even saying he will make an immediate impact, or Id have him in my top tier, though I have him ranked as my 5th LB.

Pretty simple concept; either I'm of the opinion that the ten above him are a] better LBs, b] are slightly better in slightly better situations or c] about the same and are in better situations. I did say that he would have been one of the next ones ranked. And I also said he "may" make an immediate impact, not that he most certainly would. In fact, the ten ranked above him all have a chance to "may"be make an immediate impact.

[Brent]

Pretty simple concept; either I'm of the opinion that the ten above him are a] better LBs, b] are slightly better in slightly better situations or c] about the same and are in better situations. I did say that he would have been one of the next ones ranked. And I also said he "may" make an immediate impact, not that he most certainly would. In fact, the ten ranked above him all have a chance to "may"be make an immediate impact.

 

 

fair enough.

[Bronco Billy]

[detlef] You don't say... [/detlef]

 

 

 

I swear to God, if I said the sky was blue, he would adamantly vow it was green.

[Brent]

 

I swear to God, if I said the sky was blue, he would adamantly vow it was green.

 

 

we all agree on something. Detlef will argue just for the sake of arguing, and even change his stance to argue something else, and when you go, hey, you know agree with what I said before, he then argues that.