WaterMan Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_...?urn=nfl-wp2212 Fans not buying Goodell’s ‘Fans want 18 games’ rhetoric By Doug Farrar NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has been saying for months that the fans of the game want an 18-game regular-season schedule, and for months, actual fan reaction to the idea has run almost exactly counter to Goodell's claims. What fans really seem to want is for preseason games to cost less than regular-season games, and Goodell appears to have taken that to mean something altogether else. He says that fans are practically running up to him on the street and begging for more regular-season games. Sounds unlikely at this point; I'd imagine that if fans are talking to him on the street, they're begging for an end to the lockout and perhaps using words one wouldn't use in polite company. But in a recent conference call with Tennessee Titans season-ticket holders (part of Goodell's continued mission to win hearts and minds), Goodell kept the message up: "We do think it is attractive to season-ticket holders," he said. "I hear that all of the time from our season-ticket holders. We have not abandoned our position on that. We do think it is the right thing for the game. It improves the quality of what we do, and it improves the value for you as season-ticket holders. … We do think it is a benefit for everybody, but we want to do it the right way, and we want to do it responsibly. That includes the players' perspective.'' Do you think the NFL should go to an 18-game schedule? Yes Votes: 14% No Votes: 86% 6466 Total Votes What I found interesting about this particular statement is that I have never heard or read any fan saying or writing that an 18-game regular season would be preferable in the abstract. Having listened in on one of Goodell's season-ticket calls and having read summaries of others, I cannot, for the life of me, remember even one of these season-ticket holders saying anything to the effect of, "Mr. Commissioner, we have got to have more regular-season games!" What I do hear, over and over, is Goodell's contention that the 18-game season is somehow a balm for the fans … when in truth, the fans aren't particularly interested in the idea. Where I sense that Goodell is getting a positive read on the 18-game idea is if he frames the question to get the answer he and the owners want — something to the effect of, "If you had to choose between four preseason games and a 16-game season, or two preseason games and an 18-game season, which way would you go?" In that case, I can't imagine anyone preferring the current system, especially for the same price. And that's where I think the NFL is being disingenuous — the fans are saying that it's a ripoff to pay full price for preseason games, and the league is morphing that concept into something different to meet its own agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) Where I sense that Goodell is getting a positive read on the 18-game idea is if he frames the question to get the answer he and the owners want — something to the effect of, "If you had to choose between four preseason games and a 16-game season, or two preseason games and an 18-game season, which way would you go?" In that case, I can't imagine anyone preferring the current system, especially for the same price. And that's where I think the NFL is being disingenuous — the fans are saying that it's a ripoff to pay full price for preseason games, and the league is morphing that concept into something different to meet its own agenda. Agree 100% with this analysis. Edited May 29, 2011 by Jackass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby's Hubby Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Waters down the value of divisional games Season tickets get more expensive b/c 2 added games to buy driving away the middle class from the stadium The only reason they want to add games is for more revenue. They could care less what the fans want, or probably anyone else for that matter. 2 more games per year will be minimally necessary for International Expansion - which would be yet another disconnect to fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 They could care less what the fans want, or probably anyone else for that matter. This goes for the NFLPA as well as the NFL. Neither care about you, me or any other fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby's Hubby Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) This goes for the NFLPA as well as the NFL. Neither care about you, me or any other fan. believe me, I meant the whole lot of them when I said 'they'. Goodell is just trying to get more ammo with fan polling, etc. I hope he will just believe the numbers instead of eventually spinning the poll questions just so he can get his desired result. Speaking of polls, poll every NFL player and ask him if he is really upset about his contract or the current structure of the league as far as salary caps, free agency, etc. The representatives from each side would never share the truth with each other and it is a shame because the very people who make money the longer this drags on (lawyers) are the very people who hold the solution and could end this mess. Edited May 29, 2011 by Scooby's Hubby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) I'm wholly opposed to an 18 game regular season schedule and firmly believe that a 16 game schedule is about the limit that players as a whole can take. Fatigue becomes pretty obvious as the season winds down, and the players take a tough enough beating right now. I also think it is unconscionable of owners to charge full price for preseason tickets when the product being put on the field for that price during preseason games is unquestionably well below optimal. They have the TV package in place and so there is no loss of revenue there, and the income from marketing product sales won't drop during preseason. How much revenue loss would there be if they charged half price for preseason tickets, and they'd likely fill the stands with people who would still buy spamshirts, drinks, and food. It would be a tremendous goodwill gesture towards the fans with a small change in income, IMO. Well worth the exchange given the gross revenues being generated right now. Edited May 29, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I still don't get the problem w/ moving the first two regular season games into late August / early Septmeber and adding a 2nd bye week in order to get an 18 game season? If players play an average of (say) three years ... from the time they turn 22 to the time they turn 25 ... adding two more games each season will add six more game checks ... a 12.5% increase to their total income during the period that is, most likely, the most lucrative period they'll ever have in their life. How is this a bad thing again? I hear people talk about injuries cutting careers short. Sure they do. HOWEVER, most guys lose their jobs when the offseason rolls around and GMs and coaches can really step back and look at their teams and decide that _______________________ really isn't cutting it any more. However, while the season is going on, if you're on the team you're going to keep your job. It is rare to see a guy get cut mid-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Season tickets get more expensive b/c 2 added games to buy driving away the middle class from the stadium The only reason they want to add games is for more revenue. They could care less what the fans want, or probably anyone else for that matter. I don't see this. The 2 games would replace the pre season games that are already being charged at full price. That said, I'm opposed to the 18 game season for the same reasons as Bronco Billy, plus there would be many more meaningless end of season games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I still don't get the problem w/ moving the first two regular season games into late August / early Septmeber and adding a 2nd bye week in order to get an 18 game season? If players play an average of (say) three years ... from the time they turn 22 to the time they turn 25 ... adding two more games each season will add six more game checks ... a 12.5% increase to their total income during the period that is, most likely, the most lucrative period they'll ever have in their life. How is this a bad thing again? I hear people talk about injuries cutting careers short. Sure they do. HOWEVER, most guys lose their jobs when the offseason rolls around and GMs and coaches can really step back and look at their teams and decide that _______________________ really isn't cutting it any more. However, while the season is going on, if you're on the team you're going to keep your job. It is rare to see a guy get cut mid-season. Muck, I don't think they get paid more. They just have to play more and the owners reap the benefits of a full stadium and more tv rights versus a un televised preseason game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 IIRC, players do not get a "full game check" for preseason games ... which is just one of a kajillion reasons veterans don't like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 If you look at the players as product, the owners want two more days of Michael Vick a year until he retires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Muck, I don't think they get paid more. They just have to play more and the owners reap the benefits of a full stadium and more tv rights versus a un televised preseason game. Good. I hope that's exactly the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Muck, I don't think they get paid more. They just have to play more and the owners reap the benefits of a full stadium and more tv rights versus a un televised preseason game. Preseason games get televised in Denver. Where do you live? Because of the attachment of preseason games to season tickets (something I think is deplorable - charging full season prices for game intentionally played at well below optimum product level - by the owners), preseason games also sell very well, so attendance is solid. This would give owners more leverage in the next TV package deals, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Preseason games get televised in Denver. Where do you live? Because of the attachment of preseason games to season tickets (something I think is deplorable - charging full season prices for game intentionally played at well below optimum product level - by the owners), preseason games also sell very well, so attendance is solid. This would give owners more leverage in the next TV package deals, though. You only get Broncos games televised by a local affiliate, right? Or can you get patriots/ravens preseason games as well? That is the point. you dont get widespread coverage of the NFL preseason, just the local game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 IIRC, players do not get a "full game check" for preseason games ... which is just one of a kajillion reasons veterans don't like them. I am pretty sure they get paid a flat amount per contract, no matter how many games are preseason versus regular season. Are you saying that if a guy signs a contract for 1 million, that he would somehow get paid MORE if there were 2 more regular seaosn games versus preseason games? Please elaborate . . . I am pretty sure he gets paid the 1 million, no matter how they are divided up during the year in paychecks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 IIRC, all players get the same amount for preseason games ... its only during the regular season that the game checks are different sizes ... and ... again, iirc, the plan I'd heard tossed around was to expand existing contracts by 2/16ths to cover the additional two games ... so a guy making $1.6 million is now making $1.8 million under a new 18 game schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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