Brent Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 What are the pros and cons to an auction draft vs a regular snake draft. What is the best salary cap to use, for say a 10 man league How does the process work? Does someone nominate a player, and what if 2 people both say the next number at the same time to get the player. Is there an order to who can up the bid? If you pass on an order to up the bid, can you still bid later, before the player closes? It seems a league I have joined is considering an Auction, and since Ive never done one, I wanted to know the pitfalls, and what kind of strategy most use in terms of collecting talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I honestly do not see a pro for holding a regular snake draft over an auction. My local (entering our 17th season) switched to an auction 8 years ago and we've never looked back. Head to head bidding, managing your cap, making trades during the auction...there's nothing like it. There is more planning that goes into an auction...and more often than not, you watch that plan go out the window because you blew up your cap or because other teams snagged your cornerstones. The heat of the bidding, trying to keep your cool while all else around you is spiraling out of control...what could be better! You can have any player you want. Think about that. If you are willing to spend more than another and have the cap, you can have any player. Can't say that about a snake draft! If you can do it live, in person, do it and don't look back. You cannot conduct an auction over the phone (even with one person calling in and all others present). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 So how does the process work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 In my excitement over auction pros, I neglected to answer the rest of your question! We have one person who is not in the league (important) who acts as auctioneer. Draft board pinned has all owners listed in order of arrival. First name nominates first player. Must give player name, team, and bid (whole dollars only). Minimum bid is $1. Bidding continues till...going once, going twice...sold! The nanosecond the auctioneer starts to say "sold," bidding ends. Too late to get a bid in at that point. In the event of a dual bid for the same amount, usually the guys in the room will say who said it first, or one of the bidders will immediately reup. If two owners want to talk trade, they can cease the auction (but the auction NEVER ceases while actual bidding is taking place) for a few mins to go off and talk alone. Too many times trade talk took place in front of the other owners and invariably they added their own biases. As commish, I keep track of all bids using Excel. With formulas already built in, I know how much all have to spend. Every couple of passes thru nominating, I give out # of players remaining and $$$ remaining. This is important as owners near completion of their rosters...they can never need more players than they have actual auction dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliaz Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I can say this with all honesty (and i believe I speak for about 80% of the FF community here) that both are freaking awesome but the auction draft is much more engaging and fun and you really do get to set strategies and try to screw people over. Basically, the difference is the same as having sex with a condom and then without a condom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Basically, the difference is the same as having sex with a condom and then without a condom. If I had this comparison at my disposal, my league would have ALWAYS been an auction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby's Hubby Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I love auction leagues! The best format , IMO. The strategy includes making others bid on guys you do not want. You will usually overpay for the best but it is those players that you get later when everyone is low on money that really makes the difference. Much more strategy involved, owners must remember to tuck some cash back to bid on those late rounds. Money spent per position, money spent on reserves and money spent per player, there are many ways to break down your available money and what you want to spend it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 What are the pros and cons to an auction draft vs a regular snake draft. Auctions give you a ton more control over your team makeup. You're only getting CJ2K in a snake if you draft 1-3. In an auction all owners have a shot at him but in an auction you get to spend as much as you want. There are also huge consequences for being wrong. In a snake if your 1st is a bust you lose one guy. In an auction, you spend 60% of your money on one guy you can't afford a 2nd or even 3rd round caliber player so that $60 bust kills you. What is the best salary cap to use, for say a 10 man league It's irrelevant what you use as everyone starts the same. The larger your rosters the more you want - say $200 - to allow some differentiation between top tier and lower tier players but aside from that it doesn't really matter. How does the process work? Our owners tossing players out with a starting price and bidding just goes until there's a pause. At this point someone (for us it's usually the drunkest) give a going ...... going ..... gone! count and the player goes to the highest guy. You might want someone neutral doing this but it's never been an issue for our league of adults. I throw out Shonn Greene for $4 5 7 11 12 ... ... going ... 13 14 ... going ... going ... gone! Shonn Greene to Cleveland Steamers for $14 Does someone nominate a player, and what if 2 people both say the next number at the same time to get the player. There's rarely an issue here, as one owner will generally be willing to go the extra buck to break the tie. It's also pretty difficult for this to be a true jinx - again, having someone neutral or a group of people you trust to do the right thing makes this pretty much a non-issue. Is there an order to who can up the bid?If you pass on an order to up the bid, can you still bid later, before the player closes? Would be an interesting twist, but would extend the length of the draft a lot. Have the commish spin like a top and when he points to you you bid or pass, etc. Until the word GONE is uttered all bids are fair game. We have quite a few people that let bids settle into the going going part before they throw in their bid. It seems a league I have joined is considering an Auction, and since Ive never done one, I wanted to know the pitfalls, and what kind of strategy most use in terms of collecting talent. By far the biggest pitfall is getting caught with your pants down trying to bid someone up that you don't want "to make him waste his money". If you don't like him, don't bid. There is nothing worse than getting stuck with Beanie Wells for $21 because you were sure the OSU homer would go $22. You now have a horrible RB, are short $22, and still have to fill your RB starting spot. This leads to compounded mistakes - paying $12 for a hurt Kevin Smith, for example, just because you are desperate to get another RB. Second would be keeping track of all other owners' bids. If you're sleeping on a LeGarrette Blount, for example, your bid on the next quality TE or WR is going to change depending on who has money left and needs RB's. Third is that every dollar counts. Every single one. Getting Kolb for $14 instead of $15 is huge. The primary reason is the Dollar Derby (when everyone can only bid $1 due to being over cap). If John is in Dollar Derby and tosses out Beanie Wells for $1 but you aren't, you can snipe him for $2. The opposite is also true - if you post Beanie for $1 John can't come over the top since he's capped out. Every year a couple of studs come out of the dollar derby - off the top of my head in my auction draft are CJ2K, DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Every year a couple DOZEN studs come out of the 2-8 range by those that played it well. Never ever ever up the bid by more than $1. I can't believe how many times I have seen people go "I toss Orton for $1" "2" "3" "11" ... going ... going ... gone. Yes, you won him, but how much did you overspend? This leads to .... Know your deep roster. Teams will hit the dollar derby early on. In my league our owners average 5.3 min-bid players on a 15 spot draft. This means if they bid $1 and another guy bids $2, they are out for that guy. If you were the donkey that bid 11 on Orton above and can't scramble to put 3 up for Blount you're going to hate yourself. I have a tendency to overbid by a few bucks on a select few guys I really like because I'm confident I can skip the middle-round pitfalls and evaluate the deep talent and get bargains later. For example last year I paid $19 for Jamal Charles while avoiding Grant for 18, Ronnie Brown for 18, Reggie Bush for 15, and this left me with a Forte for $7 bid much later on - a huge bargain given his output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby's Hubby Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 There is alot of poker played. Just like fleming is talking about pause and only upping bids by the minimum, your face can tip your hand. And try to leave yourself at least $2/player b/c at the end most owners only have $1 per player so you can get your ch0ice if you leave yourself a little for the end and you will have only spent an extra buck or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satelliteoflovegm Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I honestly do not see a pro for holding a regular snake draft over an auction. My local (entering our 17th season) switched to an auction 8 years ago and we've never looked back. Head to head bidding, managing your cap, making trades during the auction...there's nothing like it. There is more planning that goes into an auction...and more often than not, you watch that plan go out the window because you blew up your cap or because other teams snagged your cornerstones. The heat of the bidding, trying to keep your cool while all else around you is spiraling out of control...what could be better! You can have any player you want. Think about that. If you are willing to spend more than another and have the cap, you can have any player. Can't say that about a snake draft! If you can do it live, in person, do it and don't look back. You cannot conduct an auction over the phone (even with one person calling in and all others present). It is very possible to conduct an auction over the phone. Not ideal I will agree. I did one a couple years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osu1322 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I honestly do not see a pro for holding a regular snake draft over an auction. My local (entering our 17th season) switched to an auction 8 years ago and we've never looked back. Head to head bidding, managing your cap, making trades during the auction...there's nothing like it. There is more planning that goes into an auction...and more often than not, you watch that plan go out the window because you blew up your cap or because other teams snagged your cornerstones. The heat of the bidding, trying to keep your cool while all else around you is spiraling out of control...what could be better! You can have any player you want. Think about that. If you are willing to spend more than another and have the cap, you can have any player. Can't say that about a snake draft! If you can do it live, in person, do it and don't look back. You cannot conduct an auction over the phone (even with one person calling in and all others present). My biggest problem is that leagues I'm in there is always 1 or 2 people that can't make it to the online draft.... Anyways I like the concept of an auction draft but would have a problem finding a group of guys that could actually meet up and be able to do it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 It is very possible to conduct an auction over the phone. Not ideal I will agree. I did one a couple years ago. Ugh...we had to one year due to a medical emergency and it took nearly 5 hours (as opposed to 3). Having (then) 11 guys huddle around a speaker phone and straining to hear the dude on the other end above the din was brutal. We are not a 16 team league and all owners know that if they are unable to attend, they have to send someone to cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 My biggest problem is that leagues I'm in there is always 1 or 2 people that can't make it to the online draft.... Anyways I like the concept of an auction draft but would have a problem finding a group of guys that could actually meet up and be able to do it... Work at it...I am telling you it is worth it. You guys will never go back. Are there owners who are out of state? We have 3 guys in North Carolina and another in Florida who fly up every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osu1322 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Work at it...I am telling you it is worth it. You guys will never go back. Are there owners who are out of state? We have 3 guys in North Carolina and another in Florida who fly up every year. Yes actually we have a couple guys from Pittsburgh in our league (we're in the Akron, Oh area) but the real issue is more people having to work or have an event that they can't avoid (family, vacation, etc) Also I'm curious how is FA done with a salary cap??? If there is a player that went undrafted and blows up week 1 and 3 different team want to pick him up how would that play out? do they bid for him and whoever bids the highest wins? Also is there any sort of priority to picking up FAs??? Edited July 14, 2011 by osu1322 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Pimp Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 We draw a name to start off the auction by nominating the first player. The person who nominated that player becomes the auctioneer for that player. Whoever then wins the bid on that player gets to nominate the next player and then takes over the responsibility of auctioneer. It works perfectly because there's no way we're getting a neutral person to commit spending 3 hours of their time to supervise our auction night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osu1322 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 We draw a name to start off the auction by nominating the first player. The person who nominated that player becomes the auctioneer for that player. Whoever then wins the bid on that player gets to nominate the next player and then takes over the responsibility of auctioneer. It works perfectly because there's no way we're getting a neutral person to commit spending 3 hours of their time to supervise our auction night. Would the auctioneer be able to bid on the player that they nominate???? Cause I could see an auctioneer rushing a once twice sold to get himself a deal or a player he likes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Also I'm curious how is FA done with a salary cap??? If there is a player that went undrafted and blows up week 1 and 3 different team want to pick him up how would that play out? do they bid for him and whoever bids the highest wins? Also is there any sort of priority to picking up FAs??? Not sure if you're talking a true salary cap or just auction style format league. For our auction only league, we have a separate $ pool from the draft $ for FA once the season begins. You use and budget this money to last the entire season + playoffs. Our league is kinda lame in that if you bid to zero you can still pick guys up after that for $1; I would rather you be locked out - in other words, be more responsible what you do in the early season. The price of the FA bid is also the carry-over price for keeper purposes in our league. This is a fun by-product of auction drafting - you kinds of get a year-long secondary draft. Do you pay $50 in week 1 for that FA RB that just went for a buck-twenty? Would you rather just pick up 4-5 guys in the $10 range over the next couple weeks that are in RBBC and might break out or that are emerging your WR/RB like Woodhead? This system works best with smaller roster limits - making sure interesting guys are in the pot and there's a consequence for doing a FA move are important. Having to drop Manningham to add Woodhead who's playing Buffalo isn't quite such an easy decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satelliteoflovegm Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Ugh...we had to one year due to a medical emergency and it took nearly 5 hours (as opposed to 3). Having (then) 11 guys huddle around a speaker phone and straining to hear the dude on the other end above the din was brutal. We are not a 16 team league and all owners know that if they are unable to attend, they have to send someone to cover. We were all on the phone, all 12 on a conference call. It went fine enough, took forever and if a couple owners paid better attention it would have gone that much better. After a few auctions you get into a groove an recognize all the voices. We used a google spread with subtraction formulas in it that everyone could share on line as I entered the winning bids, the owners were "view only" so no well intentioned owner would enter repeat or wrong info. It did take many hours, but so does a real auction. or it can. It was an auction to start-up a dynasty league. So we just did it once. We are currently doing a message board auction to add IDP to that same league. It is scheduled to take a couple months, so you have to plan it ahead of time. That, in my opinion is working very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satelliteoflovegm Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Also I'm curious how is FA done with a salary cap??? If there is a player that went undrafted and blows up week 1 and 3 different team want to pick him up how would that play out? do they bid for him and whoever bids the highest wins? Also is there any sort of priority to picking up FAs??? In our salary cap league you need to save some money of your total to blind bid on players during the season. You can also cut players to make cap room, but there is a 25% hit for the contract length remaining. So the initial round of waivers is blind bids. Then anyone not bid on is a FCFS free agent available for the league minimum salary of $2 $1 for rookies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonsoxandy Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Try a mock auction draft on ESPN. That way you can really see what it is like (keep in mind its a MOCK, and chances are your bidding against mostly bots-maybe a few people. But still you'll get the idea) Or even try a real live auction draft on ESPN. That way you can play against a full room of people who are going a lot harder than in a mock Mock Link: http://games.espn.go.com/ffl/mockdraftlobby Live Link: http://games.espn.go.com/ffl/livedraftlobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Pimp Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Would the auctioneer be able to bid on the player that they nominate???? Cause I could see an auctioneer rushing a once twice sold to get himself a deal or a player he likes..... Yeah the auctioneer can bid too. We're all there live so there is no rushing the deal to get one over on the other owners. If someone does that we just tell him it was too fast and quit trying to pull that. It's never been an issue. We have a $200 bank for the auction night to fill our 18 roster spots and you cannot have less than 18. For FA's we have another $200 bank roll and have blind bidding from Monday at midnight until Wed midnight and then first come first served for any available players for $1 from Thursday morning until kickoff. Once you're out of money you can no longer make pickups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Yeah the auctioneer can bid too. We're all there live so there is no rushing the deal to get one over on the other owners. If someone does that we just tell him it was too fast and quit trying to pull that. It's never been an issue. We have a $200 bank for the auction night to fill our 18 roster spots and you cannot have less than 18. For FA's we have another $200 bank roll and have blind bidding from Monday at midnight until Wed midnight and then first come first served for any available players for $1 from Thursday morning until kickoff. Once you're out of money you can no longer make pickups. Until we got a non-owner to be the auctioneer (we pay for his food and drink for the day), an owner always ran the auction and we never had an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Thanks for the tips guys. This will be the first time for all of us doing the auction, so it should be interesting to say the least. In fact its my first draft with any of these guys, so I have no idea who even likes who. Which Im hoping will be helpful in not overbiding for players I dont want, Ill let someone else be that sucker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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