Steeltown Dre Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I was blown away when I heard Jim Harbaugh, Ravens HC, state of Joe Flacco: “Statistically, he’s one of the best third-year quarterbacks in history of football,” Harbaugh said. “I don’t think we should ever lose sight of the fact that this guy is as good a third-year quarterback as has played in the history of this game so far. And I believe in him. He’s my quarterback, he’s our quarterback, he’s going to be our quarterback, and we’re going to win championships with this guy.” Now Derrick Mason is saying that teams are scared of Flacco because of how good he is. Joe Flacco has the height and build that make him look like a prototypical QB. And this season it was politically correct to think Joe Flacco is a solid, dependable and possibly a great QB. I disagree wholeheartedly and it’s my prerogative to feel that way until Flacco proves me wrong. He has a big arm, he has a big body, he throws a good deep ball. But he chokes in big games, he is not a leader that proves it on the field and his passing under pressure is miserable. But I’m not the only one who sees his limitations: Otherwise, though they would never say different, why would Flacco’s GM/Owner/Coach make such unprecedented moves before the 2010 season? As we all know, the Ravens build through the draft, they groom their own. But they realized the severe limitations of their QB, so they knew they had to help him. So this season, they added Anquan Boldin, TJ Houshmandzadeh and Dontae' Stallworth. Despite already having a great former Pro-Bowl possession receiver in Mason (great hands and routes) a former Pro-Bowl TE in Heap plus Pro-Bowler Ray Rice out of the backfield. If they had a QB they could trust to win big games, they wouldn't have needed to add all these weapons. Their run game was huge in 2009 so they certainly didn't need to add WRs to help the run game. They had Mason already, another former Pro Bowler, and could have added one other WR if they saw the opportunity. But they didn't. They added three. This was a team that, in 2010, brought in 2 Pro-Bowl receivers to add to the 1 Pro-Bowler they already had. Does this sound like a team that trusts they have an all-star QB? No. This team, when going 3 wide, felt they needed to have 3 Pro-Bowl WRs starting together at the same time. Forget about the Miami Heat or the NY Knicks stacking talent, that’s what the Ravens tried to do with their WR position in 2010. Did Belichick, when Brady was his young QB, go out in FA and bring in a ton of Pro Bowl WRs? No, Brady won 3 SBs w/ Troy Brown, David Patten and Deion Branch. When Big Ben was a young QB w/ the Steelers, did Cowher go out in FA and buy a bunch of Pro Bowl WRs? No, Ben won Super Bowls w/ Hines Ward and Randle El, and then another w/ an older Hines Ward and a young, homegrown Santonio Holmes. None of these guys were FAs, they were drafted by the Steelers. In fact, let’s look at all the younger QBs of the last few years: Matt Ryan, Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, Eli Manning, Alex Smith, Philip Rivers When these guys were budding in the league, struggling at times, did any of the teams they played on, even the ones who didn’t have great run games and great defenses, bring in multiple proven and veteran Pro-Bowl WRs for their QB to use? Absolutely not. So why would the Ravens feel they needed to add such talent if they love their QB so much, and already had a great run game and defense? You would think Flacco would be able to win with Pro Bowl options Mason and TE Todd Heap, as well as leading pass receiver and Pro Bowler Ray Rice out of the backfield catching passes. I will tell you why they knew he couldn’t get it done: It’s because the Ravens front office is one of the best in the NFL and they knew Flacco and his limitations. They also knew how he struggled on the road and late in the season. On the road from December onward, Flacco has a QB rating of just 68.8, has thrown 12 TDs and 12 Ints in 13 total games, and is throwing for just 5.7 ypa in his 3 year career. I said early in the season last year that Flacco was bound to do better in 2010, because he couldn’t do much worse than he did in years 1 and 2. And he did produce better statistically overall. But now we have his head coach claiming there is no better 3rd year QB in NFL history? First let’s just look at just year 3, then we’ll look at years 1-3 as a package. Let’s compare Flacco to all 3rd year QBs in NFL history to see if Harbaugh is right or wrong that he is the best all time: Long article w/ stat analysis, click for more: https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/Joe_F...o_Analysis.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trots Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 this looks familiar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeltown Dre Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 this looks familiar... Haha - yes, I had to laugh when I read this past Thursday about Derrick Mason and his comments. I'm not saying Flacco won't ever be good, and I certainly don't think teams overlook him. But I really think the Ravens organization is on some type of "Confidence Boosting Mission" when it comes to him. Saying things clearly not true to get him to feel good, I'm not really sure what is going on there. What do you think of him Trots, being a fan of the team? Is he one of the best 3rd year QBs? If not, why would Harbaugh say he is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I think this would be a much more compelling argument if it was actually popular opinion that Flacco is all that. But it's not. His own coach is saying he's great. Not exactly news when a coach lays it out for his franchise QB. It's not like everyone is slobbering all over the guy and this revelation just comes flying out of left field. Rather, he's a guy that rarely gets mentioned among the league's elite but also doesn't get dogged (rightfully so) because he's certainly not a bust. So, the take away for most of us is that, he's about as good as we think. Signs of being a solid starter for years or maybe better, but not exactly lighting the world on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeltown Dre Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 I think this would be a much more compelling argument if it was actually popular opinion that Flacco is all that. But it's not. His own coach is saying he's great. Not exactly news when a coach lays it out for his franchise QB. It's not like everyone is slobbering all over the guy and this revelation just comes flying out of left field. Rather, he's a guy that rarely gets mentioned among the league's elite but also doesn't get dogged (rightfully so) because he's certainly not a bust. So, the take away for most of us is that, he's about as good as we think. Signs of being a solid starter for years or maybe better, but not exactly lighting the world on fire. Agree 100% - I think much of the public would agree too (didn't set up a poll). Which is why its peculiar that so many of the Ravens feel the need to publicly over-the-top praise him. Has me thinking its a confidence campaign but that's the best I've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Agree 100% - I think much of the public would agree too (didn't set up a poll). Which is why its peculiar that so many of the Ravens feel the need to publicly over-the-top praise him. Has me thinking its a confidence campaign but that's the best I've got. Wait a minute. Didn't you write that article? You have that website in your profile, so I assumed it was yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Wait a minute. Didn't you write that article? You have that website in your profile, so I assumed it was yours. Oh snap. . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeltown Dre Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Wait a minute. Didn't you write that article? You have that website in your profile, so I assumed it was yours. Yes, that was me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeltown Dre Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Oh snap. . . . . . I don't get it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Yes, that was me. OK, sorry but, my point was that your article was not that interesting for the reasons I gave. In short, 1) It is not news to me that Flacco is not the greatest young QB of all time and 2) That I'm pretty sure this is not the first time I've heard a coach or WRs giving mad props to their young QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 greatest third year QB? No, but he has an awesome and bright future ahead of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Anyone else not seeing Flacco progressing through his learning curve as quickly as a lot of the great ones have? I think kid has some talent, but he seems limited also. I see this guy as a startable QB for a decade who will always just come up short and disappoint. He'll keep BAL drooling waiting to see him unleash his untapped potential until they finally tire of him as the guy who can't get them over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeltown Dre Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 OK, sorry but, my point was that your article was not that interesting for the reasons I gave. In short, 1) It is not news to me that Flacco is not the greatest young QB of all time and 2) That I'm pretty sure this is not the first time I've heard a coach or WRs giving mad props to their young QB. The overall point of the article was to show how wrong the coach's comments were. He made a very specific statement. Not "Joe Flacco will be a great QB", not "Joe Flacco is the best QB the franchise has ever had". Hell, he didn't even just say: "He’s one of the best third-year quarterbacks in history of football". He said "Statistically, he’s one of the best third-year quarterbacks in history of football". Which is extremely easy to prove based in statistics whether he's right or wrong, and he's so wrong it's not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Mark Sanchez is better in the post season, and that's what matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I haven't seen anything of Flacco that makes me think he'll be anything special. The thing I notice most is that he couldn't hit snow if he fell off a ski lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 The overall point of the article was to show how wrong the coach's comments were. He made a very specific statement. Not "Joe Flacco will be a great QB", not "Joe Flacco is the best QB the franchise has ever had". Hell, he didn't even just say: "He’s one of the best third-year quarterbacks in history of football". He said "Statistically, he’s one of the best third-year quarterbacks in history of football". Which is extremely easy to prove based in statistics whether he's right or wrong, and he's so wrong it's not even close. I expect Flacco to end up a top 10 QB this year or higher. Not too much of a leap, I'd say. Seeing as how all coaches have coach speak, do you think that being a Steelers fan is what made you lock on to this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeltown Dre Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) I expect Flacco to end up a top 10 QB this year or higher. Not too much of a leap, I'd say. Seeing as how all coaches have coach speak, do you think that being a Steelers fan is what made you lock on to this? Actually I am a fan of no team. Don't let my username fool you. I also envision Flacco improving this season. Again, he will get better, he can't get much worse... I'm definitely waiting for him to produce a clutch performance in a significant game, especially on the road... I keep having flashbacks of his MNF game in GB w/ 1 TD, 3 Ints and a 27 rating in 09, and his 0 TD, 2 Ints, 48 rtg game in Indy in the playoffs that season. He played much better last season on the road in big games, which is to be expected by being surrounded by so much greater talent. You can make any player better by buying tons of FA weapons. His struggles are even more evident when you look at one stat I didn't include: When the Ravens are losing after the 3rd quarter, they are 1-13 in all games since Flacco came to town. And its not as if those games were blowouts - they are 0-6 when trailing by 6 or fewer points after the third quarter, and 0-4 when trailing by 2 or 3 points after the 3rd quarter. It illustrates his lack of being "clutch" in these spots or willing his team to victory. Contrast that w/ Josh Freeman, who last year alone went 3-5 when trailing after the 3rd quarter, including a remarkable 3-1 when trailing heading into the 4th by 5 or fewer points. ETA: In the 2 years prior to Flacco coming to town (06 & 07), the Ravens were actually 3-5 when trailing by 11 or fewer points entering the 4th quarter. And if you only look at Steve McNair, when he was on the team in 06, they went 3-2 when trailing by 11 or fewer points entering the 4th. Edited July 19, 2011 by Steeltown Dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Yeah, your user name did infact mislead. It honestly seemed like you were letting your homerism get the better of you on this one, but I guess this is not the case. I like Flacco. He seems to be a high character guy with with a pretty solid skill-set. Is he all world? No. But I do think that he will continue to get better and end up being at least as good as somebody like Matthews, hopefully even better. He came from a small school there is going to be a learning curve. The magic number for wides seems to be around three years, but it can take a little more with QBs. I don't know if I buy the whole surrounding him with FAs thing because all teams do that. If they don't than their coach needs to be fired. Its not like Baltimore is known as a defense poor team, so where else are they going to spend their money? Whatever the case - I am pulling for the kid and I've a sigline bet for anybody willing to take it that he'll end up at least in the top 10 QBs at the end of the year. I understand though that you are disputing that, but rather the best third year QB aspect to things. Whatever the case, coach speak is coach speak and I am pulling for the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeltown Dre Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Yeah, your user name did infact mislead. It honestly seemed like you were letting your homerism get the better of you on this one, but I guess this is not the case. I like Flacco. He seems to be a high character guy with with a pretty solid skill-set. Is he all world? No. But I do think that he will continue to get better and end up being at least as good as somebody like Matthews, hopefully even better. He came from a small school there is going to be a learning curve. The magic number for wides seems to be around three years, but it can take a little more with QBs. I don't know if I buy the whole surrounding him with FAs thing because all teams do that. If they don't than their coach needs to be fired. Its not like Baltimore is known as a defense poor team, so where else are they going to spend their money? Whatever the case - I am pulling for the kid and I've a sigline bet for anybody willing to take it that he'll end up at least in the top 10 QBs at the end of the year. I understand though that you are disputing that, but rather the best third year QB aspect to things. Whatever the case, coach speak is coach speak and I am pulling for the kid. I like the Ravens because they have been good to me when betting. I like predictable, and that's what they've been. Some examples since Flacco/Harbaugh took over: On the road after a loss - 6-2 ATS On the road after a big win - 1-5 ATS At home off a win and favored by over 4 - 7-2 ATS, 9-0 SU, Unders 7-2 At home on any total over 40 - Unders 6-1 At home in 2nd of back2back home games - Unders 5-1 I like Ray Lewis and his motivational skill set and for whatever reason its been easy for me to read this team, as in, where their motivation and head is at, when they stand a good chance to cover and when they could put out a softer performance. Actually Baltimore could use some help on defense, as they are getting older and not getting pressure on the QB like they used to do. Ranked 27th in the league last year in sacks and allowed 225 passing ypg, 21st in the league and very "un-Baltimore" like. One reason they took a CB high in the draft this year. Flacco seems like a good kid, that is certain. His teammates love his "joe cool" flair, which is kind of like Eli Manning's style. Many criticize both guys, however, and prefer the Tom Brady/Peyton Manning/Phillip Rivers "fire" and leadership they bring to the position and team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Anyone else not seeing Flacco progressing through his learning curve as quickly as a lot of the great ones have? I think kid has some talent, but he seems limited also. I see this guy as a startable QB for a decade who will always just come up short and disappoint. He'll keep BAL drooling waiting to see him unleash his untapped potential until they finally tire of him as the guy who can't get them over the top. Spot on. I thought big things were going to happen with the Raven offense, and it didn't happen. Will it finally happen this year? Doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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