detlef Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 In general? Well, regardless, here's your reminder. In amazing vintages like '09 and '07, there is so damned much great juice and so many lower appelations of the Southern Rhone (and in the case of '09, don't forget the north), that it's a bloody feeding frenzy for good wine. Also, there's barely any reason at all to buy the Chateau Neuf du Pape. Sure, they're effing great, but so are all the Gigondas, Vacqueras... hell even the better Cotes du Rhone Villages as well as Cotes du Rhone and even Cotes du Ventoux. Every time one of these vintages comes along, basically everyone bats 1.000 Only, here's the difference between the 2nd and 3rd tier stuff and the CnP. You pay a premium for the CnP in a vintage like this because Parker is giving it 97 pts or what not compared to the 91 or so it usually gets. None of the lower tiers costs a penny more than it typically does. So, the same Rasteau that is usually tasty enough and $12 is now effing amazing and now...$12. And many of those upper tier Rhone Villages or higher can certainly age and develop as well as the CnPs in a vintage like this. But again, at $15-$25 your cost instead of $35-$75 (or more). It's not as easy in the north, where I think there's a far bigger gap between the baller stuff like Cote Rotie, Hermitage, and Cornas and the lesser appelations like St. Joseph and Crozes Hermitage, but '09 seemed to be an impossible vintage to make anything but stellar juice. Case in point, the '09 Emmanuel Darnaud Crozes (which costs about $30 retail) is as stunningly rich, dark, and magnificent as about any Hermitage you'll find. And I haven't been shown an Hermitage that costs less than $50 retail in forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I understand almost nothing that you wrote above except 09 being a good year across the board for Rhone wines. So other than the two (Rasteau and Emmanuel Darnaud Crozes) you mention above, what are some names I should be on the lookout for that should be pretty widely available? By the way, are these red or white? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 26, 2011 Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 I understand almost nothing that you wrote above except 09 being a good year across the board for Rhone wines. So other than the two (Rasteau and Emmanuel Darnaud Crozes) you mention above, what are some names I should be on the lookout for that should be pretty widely available? By the way, are these red or white? I'm basically talking about red, though the whites are nice as well. But white Rhones are a bit different. At any rate, the point I'm trying to make is that there's no need to point out specific producers because it's like shooting fish in a barrel. So, the only names that matter are the names of the regions. Buy anything from these regions with confidence: 2007 or 2009 Southern Rhone: Gigondas Vacqueyras (sp?) Anything that says Cotes de Rhone However, if it says Cotes de Rhone Villages, expect to pay a bit more and it should be better still Cairranne Costiere de Nimes Rasteau At the very bottom end, there's Cotes du Ventoux, and even those are bound to be tasty in vintages like 07 and 09 In the North (basically 09) The lower tiered stuff will be St. Joseph and Crozes Hermitage. And these will be far better than normal and possibly as good as the far more expensive wines of Cote Rotie, Hermitage, and Cornas are in normal vintages. But still cost way less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 My local grocery store only has two Rhone wines. I just opened a 2009 Louis Bernard. It is a cotes du Rhone villages but was actually cheaper than the 2007 cotes du Rhone e. Guigal that I'll have tomorrow. The Bernard has a screw top which I was pretty leary of but due to your recommendation bought it. I must say it is very average. Drinkable but definitely nothing special. Hopefully the other one is better. These 2 bottles were around $13-$17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 My local grocery store only has two Rhone wines. I just opened a 2009 Louis Bernard. It is a cotes du Rhone villages but was actually cheaper than the 2007 cotes du Rhone e. Guigal that I'll have tomorrow. The Bernard has a screw top which I was pretty leary of but due to your recommendation bought it. I must say it is very average. Drinkable but definitely nothing special. Hopefully the other one is better. These 2 bottles were around $13-$17. The Guigal is great. Had it not long ago. Sorry you weren't thrilled by the Bernard. In fairness, I hadn't tried it but was just batting 1.000 on those I had tried from the vintage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 The Bernard has a screw top which I was pretty leary of ... Overall, I like the screwcaps. You miss the presentation a bit though. Get used to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Overall, I like the screwcaps. You miss the presentation a bit though. Get used to them. Boones Farm Strawberry Hill was one of the finest screw caps ever made...or at least he high school girls used to tell me that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh B Tool Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Overall, I like the screwcaps. You miss the presentation a bit though. Get used to them. Just like you will see craft beers go to cans over the next few years. They all have found out it is just as good when done right for much less money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 while i am a fiend for white rhones, i am luke warm on their reds (with a preference for the southern, grenache led wines) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 black Rhone http://caimages.collectors.com/psaimages/3...nieRhone319.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 So, I guess I've figured out I'm like Bier when it comes to red Rhones. I've tried 4-5 different ones and none of them blew me away. A couple of them were almost undrinkable. I don't think I'd ever sampled any before and since I like to venture out of our typical cabs and pinots, it wasn't a total loss. Thanks for the suggestions, Det, at least I now know it's not something I'm a huge fan of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Gotta give props to Det for the tip here. We've been entertaining a lot lately and I've been on a wine kick, just trying to pick out decent bottles to impress our guests. I know nothing about wine but every '07 and '09 Rhone I've picked out has been a winner. Everyone who has left our parties has been good and drunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big F'n Dave Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Everyone who has left our parties has been good and drunk. If that's your goal, I'd just go with Torada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I've decided to take det's advice but I'm going right to the source to find out if he's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 I've decided to take det's advice but I'm going right to the source to find out if he's right. Nice! Enjoy the trip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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