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The Orton/Tebow saga continues


tazinib1
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now it looks like Tebow is starting to whine. I guess it's easy to take the high road when you know all roads are paved just for you. Should be interesting to see if Tebow has the maturity to be the same guy he has been while playing the backup role for a year.

Not that it's any surprise that I'm a Tebow-hater, but that pretty much shows another big reason why... When things are going good, yes, he's a fine leader, but great leaders make their mark when they face adversity. Tebow cries and whines...

 

I'm sorry, but he's acting as if it's his God-given path to be a starting QB, not something he has to earn, as evidenced by that whiny quote about the starting job "being taken away from him"... Give me a break...

Edited by delusions of granduer
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You draft a QB in the first round to use him...just like any other player you draft in the first round.

 

In contract dynasty leagues people do their best to hit with a starter in the first round, and of course in every round...but as rounds go on you often draft for players that look good as developmental prospects. As a comparison, neither NFL teams or fantasy teams can afford to have that first round pick be a bust. It;s capital spent, and it needs to be capital well spent in order for a franchise to remain on top or to climb towards the top.

 

Denver needs to harness what Tebow brings to the table or to move past it. Anything in between is a waste of time.

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All I know at this point, is that the Broncos will be VERY interesting to watch in the Preseason. Toss in the chances that Quinn will get, and there will be lots of QB drama. Quinn has his own bag of drama to throw around. Orton basically cannot have a bad game in Denver, ever, going forward.

 

Also, watching how the front 7 on defense materializes should be fun to watch in preseason. Then there's the "can-Moreno-be-the-every-down-guy" question.

 

Very interesting team this year!

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Aaron Rodgers actually played QB, and not a RB/QB/FB hybrid in college. Different learning curve,

 

I remember people saying the exact same things about Steve Young and Steve McNair. Hell, Brees was considered a flop by many for 3 years.

 

Playing QB at a quality level takes time for the overwhelming majority of QBs in the NFL. Tebow is no different. He may be a flop, but the fact remains that Orton is definitely not the future for DEN at QB - no team in the league would even give up a 2012 3rd rounder for him. Orton's 3rd down numbers, 4th quarter numbers, and red zone numbers were atrocious.

 

DEN had better figure out whether Tebow can play the position or not, and then determine a direction in next year's draft based upon their decision. Tebow sitting on his arse will determine nothing.

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I remember people saying the exact same things about Steve Young and Steve McNair. Hell, Brees was considered a flop by many for 3 years.

 

Playing QB at a quality level takes time for the overwhelming majority of QBs in the NFL. Tebow is no different. He may be a flop, but the fact remains that Orton is definitely not the future for DEN at QB - no team in the league would even give up a 2012 3rd rounder for him. Orton's 3rd down numbers, 4th quarter numbers, and red zone numbers were atrocious.

 

DEN had better figure out whether Tebow can play the position or not, and then determine a direction in next year's draft based upon their decision. Tebow sitting on his arse will determine nothing.

 

That is the question that needs answering, and the most valid part of your post. McNair sat for a year, but also had stability at offense so he could develop his game for the NFL. Tebow has not had any stability. Denver needs to pony up for a real QB coach to see if he can be turned into a NFL caliber QB, and his learning curve is steeper than most.

 

The difference between many other QB projects is that Tebow really has some basic flaws to overcome before he can make the basic NFL throws that he needs to make on a regular basis. 5 yard outs shouldnt be a cross your fingers and hope for the best, it should be automatic.

 

I think Tebow has the work ethic, but he definitely needs some more time getting coached if he is going to succeed, IMO. Notice I didnt say "start", but really succeed. He could start now, but it doesnt mean he will actually do well.

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I remember people saying the exact same things about Steve Young and Steve McNair. Hell, Brees was considered a flop by many for 3 years.

 

Playing QB at a quality level takes time for the overwhelming majority of QBs in the NFL. Tebow is no different. He may be a flop, but the fact remains that Orton is definitely not the future for DEN at QB - no team in the league would even give up a 2012 3rd rounder for him. Orton's 3rd down numbers, 4th quarter numbers, and red zone numbers were atrocious.

 

DEN had better figure out whether Tebow can play the position or not, and then determine a direction in next year's draft based upon their decision. Tebow sitting on his arse will determine nothing.

 

Mcnair was picked 3rd in the draft and i don't believe that was unexpected. Tebow was picked at the bottom of the first round by a team, when many thought he was closer to a 3rd rounder. So while the draft isn't everything, my point is that many more people saw mcnair as having the skills to play qb in the nfl. He also threw for like a million yards in college and earned the nickname "Air" Mcnair. I don't think anyone's going to be calling Tebow "Air" anything anytime soon.

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One negative moment after some disappointing news. It may be indicative of character or it may just be a bad day. They do say character is revealed under adversity, but I am reserving judgement here.

 

BTW I think he is going to be a bust, but I am willing to give a hard worker more development time than he has had. My judgement will come at the end of next year or the beginning of the fourth year. It will not come this year unless he absolutely produces or absolutely implodes.

 

Josh McDanials was an idiot for using a first round draft choice on a development project who is also a lightening rod in the culture wars. The Broncos could have used a player who could give immediate impact.

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What if he simply needs a couple of years, like Aaron Rodgers?

Possible. Remember when Tebow was being scouted and drafted? Even the optimists thought it would be 2 years at the minimum before he would be ready to be a starting QB. He's quite obviously not ready yet. I personally don't think that he ever will be, but in going by that 2-year timeline, this would be the year that they start Orton until they're out of contention and then bring in Tebow for the second half of the season. The QB in front of him really doesn't matter, so you trade Orton if you can because you don't need him and he probably isn't leading you to the playoffs, but I don't think Tim Tebow being an opening day QB in year two is in the best interest of anybody involved.

Edited by Seahawks21
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So we can all agree that the Bronco's will suck this year?

 

Yes?

 

It's funny you should say that, because I would tend to agree with you. However, if all the "experts" agree that Orton is unquestionably the superior qb and should be starting, then are they saying that should give the Broncos a good chance of making a playoff run? Sounds like it to me. Oh, but you don't hear them predicting the Broncos to win the division if Orton starts. Hmmm, I wonder why? So, the Broncos would be idiots not to have Orton as the starting qb for a team that has little to no shot of the playoffs. Meanwhile, Tebow will be sitting on the bench "learning and improving."

 

Sounds like a great plan to me! :wacko:

 

Good luck selling any tickets Mr. Bowlen when your team starts 1-5 with Orton.

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So we can all agree that the Bronco's will suck this year?

 

Yes?

 

Probably, but they'll be markedly better than last year. The D for one will improve significantly. They'll run the ball more and shorten games, so they should be more competitive. They still don't have a RB who can keep the chains moving, or a QB who can make big plays in the clutch if they commit to Orton. Maybe 6 wins, 8 if things really break right for them.

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Imagine if we hadn't traded down for tebow and demaryius and took pouncey instead?

 

I believe I speak for all Denver fans outside of the state of Colorado when I say that we are extremely dissappointed in the locals that you did not tar and feather McD on his way out of town.

 

Would have loved to get Pouncey, or <shockingly> a defensive player!

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I remember people saying the exact same things about Steve Young and Steve McNair. Hell, Brees was considered a flop by many for 3 years.

 

Playing QB at a quality level takes time for the overwhelming majority of QBs in the NFL. Tebow is no different. He may be a flop, but the fact remains that Orton is definitely not the future for DEN at QB - no team in the league would even give up a 2012 3rd rounder for him. Orton's 3rd down numbers, 4th quarter numbers, and red zone numbers were atrocious.

 

DEN had better figure out whether Tebow can play the position or not, and then determine a direction in next year's draft based upon their decision. Tebow sitting on his arse will determine nothing.

This.

 

You need to remeber they made a Hugh investment in this young man. And it's not Fox or Elway money, it's Bowlen's.

 

I believe Orton is 1 bad game away from becoming a Raider or a Chef.

 

The defense is much improved. I think the team will produce better than expected.

 

I suppose this is why they play the game. :wacko:

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Do you remember before John Elway had a running game i.e. Terrel Davis he could not win a super bowl either.......

 

There may be a little bit of a difference between competent NFL QB and Superbowl winning QB.

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Do you remember before John Elway had a running game i.e. Terrel Davis he could not win a super bowl either.......

 

I think that also had allot to do with the absolute horrific defense Denver had in each of those losing super bowls. Granted, TD was absolutely pivitol. Not taking his ability away by any means.

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I remember people saying the exact same things about Steve Young and Steve McNair. Hell, Brees was considered a flop by many for 3 years.

Curious, I never met any of these people. Both Young and McNair threw the ball all over the yard in college. Were there question marks? Of course there were, like there always is. But there was nowhere near the level of doubt with them as there is with Tebow and they both seemed to live up to their billing. Tebow, by stark contrast, was never asked to throw the ball around the yard. That's not his fault, but the game he played in college did not prepare him for the NFL as well as most others.

 

I don't know about "many" in terms of Brees, but I was pretty surprised when SD decided to go after a QB in the draft they took Rivers in. Obviously Rivers ended up being nice, but I was puzzled, none the less, that they were giving up on Brees. He'd been injured and/or playing on a really crappy team for his first few years. And it seemed like the jury was very much out on him.

 

Listen, I tend to agree that they may as well find out what they have. But let's not pretend that there aren't plenty who know the position well who have raised legitimate questions about Tebow's skill set. And, had McDaniels not reached for him and he'd gone where he should have, there'd be so much less pressure on Denver. Because then he'd just be another QB drafted in the 2nd round or later who may or may not pan out. Then he'd be like all the other "athletes" who played QB in college but were drafted to play other positions.

 

We've gone through this before, but those who question whether this kid can do it are not the ones who are biased. They're the rational ones, because the data points to Tebow likely not working out. He's a gamble, plain and simple. It's the ones who assume that anyone who thinks he's not going to make it has come to that conclusion because they can't handle his goodness that are missing the point. Guys like Turf Smurf who are convinced he'll be amazing and is prepared to accuse anyone who doubts him as a baseless hater. Based on what? A three game stretch last year where he went 1-2? Not saying that's bad enough to bury the kid, but that's not what everyone is basing their concerns on. Based on the fact "he's a winner"? Great, first he needs to "win" the starting job.

 

Because the concerns are based on the fact that most of us did not see his game translating. Sure, there have been others who overcame this, but they're few and far between. And now those concerns are furthered by the fact that it appears he's battling Quinn for #2 rather than Orton for #1.

 

Again, I tend to agree that they should give him a shot and see what they have. But he has to meet them halfway. And it may be too much to ask for Fox to throw his first season away and play a guy who he seems to feel is not up to the job.

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I am not saying that Orton is a super bowl q.b. or not the same for Tebow.But the fact remains if you can not keep the defense off balance by just passing no one will be successful,you have to be able to run the ball.And yes you must have a solid defense to win,look at the ravens with Dilfer if not for the defense they never would have won.To early to say if Tebow is the man or not it is only his second season,and Orton at best is a journeyman q.b. that most of the time can produce just well enough to win,but not under pressure.If you remember under Shanahans system the broncos had numerous thousand yard plus r.b.s that when they went elsewhere did not do much.

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