405 replies to this topic

[gbpfan1231]

Pope Flick, on 8/9/11 10:21pm, said:

Where were you guys when the Republicans organized the recall of Governor Gray Davis?

Oh yeah..

Read some things about it and from what I read I would say the same for Gray Davis as all these in WI - wrong - boot him out in next election.

[bushwacked]

bpwallace49, on 8/9/11 8:29pm, said:

recalls are a big, big deal. There is a large threshold of signatures and procedure to complete.

you have to REALLY, REALLY piss people off enough to take it that far to a full recall.

This isnt like changing your mind about your netflix queue . . . it takes a lot of work to recall an elected official.

I guess that immediately going after collective bargaining, even after fiscal concessions werer all agreed to (right or wrong) pissed enough people off to really go the distance.

I'm shocked, absolutely shocked, the good people of Wisconsin are having buyer's remorse after watching implementation of a radical right wing agenda.

[tosberg34]

bushwacked, on 8/9/11 10:51pm, said:

I'm shocked, absolutely shocked, the good people of Wisconsin are having buyer's remorse after watching implementation of a radical right wing agenda.

Seems kind of premature considering there are 2 more Democrats up for recall next week.  I guess I'm NOT shocked with your inaccurate and knee-jerk (emphasis on JERK) reaction.

Edited by tosberg34, 10 August 2011 - 05:05 AM.

[tosberg34]

Azazello1313, on 8/9/11 10:42pm, said:

how much outside money has come in behind this effort?

About 31 million.

Associated Press said:

More than $31 million was estimated to have been spent on the nine recall elections, rivaling the $37 million spent on last year's governor's race.

[gbpfan1231]

bushwacked, on 8/9/11 10:51pm, said:

I'm shocked, absolutely shocked, the good people of Wisconsin are having buyer's remorse after watching implementation of a radical right wing agenda.

Have you been paying attention????  It has been working.  Try to keep up.

[bpwallace49]

gbpfan1231, on 8/9/11 10:42pm, said:

I guess I just still don't get it - so you piss off some people and they gather 20k of signatures and you can fire them for basically doing nothing wrong???  Yep I think this process works.

What specifically did these people do wrong?  What bad things have happened with what has been happening?

Don't give the lame excuse of "he did not tell everyone what he was going to do"  - all of the sudden if something happens that was not in your campiagn it is grounds to basically get fired?  Come on - did the Dems campaign on fleeing the state?  No they did not and even for them I don't think they should get recalled.  People can speak their mind at the next general election.

I know you don't agree (you would if it was 6 Dems and 2 repubs).

Your campaigning on leaving the state has to be the absolute worst straw man argumnet ever. seriously. Lets set that aside.

But there is a genuine movement against elected officials that have gone after the collective bargaining. Right wrong or indiifferent, that has polarized politics and turned WI into a frenzy. teachers (except for here at the huddle . . . where they are apparently hated for daring to be paid with . .gasp . .tax dollars!) can be sympathetic figures, especially if you have kids that have been aided by a special teacher.

This isnt like he decided to change his position on a non-binding resolution about walleye fishing by Lodi . . .  this is a big deal that directly affects thousands of teachers and families. When you make a choice like this that will effect so many constituents without even discussing the matter, then you WILL piss people off.

we all get it gbpfan . .  you are a die hard Republican, and bleed walker blue. Since the beginning I have said that Walker should have taken a softer stance with this. It was going to pass NO MATTER WHAT, so why not explain this in detail before forcing it through? Why turn adversarial? Why NOT choose to act like a magnanimous guy that already won instead of looking like a dick? The issue was already decided. By choosing to force everything through and look like imperial lords imposing their will on the peasants, the Republicans practically DARED this to happen.

Again . . . HE HAD ALREADY WON. Why not take a softer stance, explain it around the state and show how it saves money and defuse this self-righteous recalls before they can start? take the emotion out of the equation from the start? Act like a leader that doesnt want the state to tear itself apart along party lines?

Just a thought . . .

[tosberg34]

gbpfan1231, on 8/9/11 10:56pm, said:

Have you been paying attention????  It has been working.  Try to keep up.

Ahhh...he's not very bright.  I also don't think he realizes 2  vulnerable Democrats are up for recall next week which makes his comment even more uneducated.

Edited by tosberg34, 10 August 2011 - 05:05 AM.

[tosberg34]

bpwallace49, on 8/9/11 11:00pm, said:

Your campaigning on leaving the state has to be the absolute worst straw man argumnet ever. seriously. Lets set that aside.

But there is a genuine movement against elected officials that have gone after the collective bargaining. Right wrong or indiifferent, that has polarized politics and turned WI into a frenzy. teachers (except for here at the huddle . . . where they are apparently hated for daring to be paid with . .gasp . .tax dollars!) can be sympathetic figures, especially if you have kids that have been aided by a special teacher.

This isnt like he decided to change his position on a non-binding resolution about walleye fishing by Lodi . . .  this is a big deal that directly affects thousands of teachers and families. When you make a choice like this that will effect so many constituents without even discussing the matter, then you WILL piss people off.

we all get it gbpfan . .  you are a die hard Republican, and bleed walker blue. Since the beginning I have said that Walker should have taken a softer stance with this. It was going to pass NO MATTER WHAT, so why not explain this in detail before forcing it through? Why turn adversarial? Why NOT choose to act like a magnanimous guy that already won instead of looking like a dick? The issue was already decided. By choosing to force everything through and look like imperial lords imposing their will on the peasants, the Republicans practically DARED this to happen.

Again . . . HE HAD ALREADY WON. Why not take a softer stance, explain it around the state and show how it saves money and defuse this self-righteous recalls before they can start? take the emotion out of the equation from the start? Act like a leader that doesnt want the state to tear itself apart along party lines?

Just a thought . . .

I think you're giving it more importance than it really deserves.  All of the outside money that was poured in to these recall efforts did not make this a "people of WI" thing.  This is being run by major outside interests, with help from the Obama campaign as well.

You're comment, "But there is a genuine movement against elected officials that have gone after the collective bargaining" is inaccurate because it implies that this is mostly coming from WI residents.  I disagree (as stated above).

[bpwallace49]

Now darling surges ahead . . . close race, but I would be shocked if darling doesnt win. She has a very very conservative district.

[tosberg34]

Democrats are now alleging vote tampering (in Darling's district) because Waukesha delayed their votes in order to ensure an accurate count due to the SC race earlier this year.  

Is anyone surprised?  Now trying to cast doubt because it appears they are going to lose.

Edited by tosberg34, 09 August 2011 - 11:16 PM.

[gbpfan1231]

bpwallace49, on 8/9/11 11:00pm, said:

Your campaigning on leaving the state has to be the absolute worst straw man argumnet ever. seriously. Lets set that aside.

But there is a genuine movement against elected officials that have gone after the collective bargaining. Right wrong or indiifferent, that has polarized politics and turned WI into a frenzy. teachers (except for here at the huddle . . . where they are apparently hated for daring to be paid with . .gasp . .tax dollars!) can be sympathetic figures, especially if you have kids that have been aided by a special teacher.

This isnt like he decided to change his position on a non-binding resolution about walleye fishing by Lodi . . .  this is a big deal that directly affects thousands of teachers and families. When you make a choice like this that will effect so many constituents without even discussing the matter, then you WILL piss people off.

we all get it gbpfan . .  you are a die hard Republican, and bleed walker blue. Since the beginning I have said that Walker should have taken a softer stance with this. It was going to pass NO MATTER WHAT, so why not explain this in detail before forcing it through? Why turn adversarial? Why NOT choose to act like a magnanimous guy that already won instead of looking like a dick? The issue was already decided. By choosing to force everything through and look like imperial lords imposing their will on the peasants, the Republicans practically DARED this to happen.

Again . . . HE HAD ALREADY WON. Why not take a softer stance, explain it around the state and show how it saves money and defuse this self-righteous recalls before they can start? take the emotion out of the equation from the start? Act like a leader that doesnt want the state to tear itself apart along party lines?

Just a thought . . .

I will give you that WALKER did it the wrong way but I still don't think that it is then OK to recall other senators for the way WALKER did things.

Again - we disagree.  

Also again you say things (I think implying me) that nobody here has said.  who said they hate teachers???????

We all get it BP you love capital letters.

[bpwallace49]

gbpfan1231, on 8/9/11 11:18pm, said:

I will give you that WALKER did it the wrong way but I still don't think that it is then OK to recall other senators for the way WALKER did thing

But didnt all those republicans directly implement and force through the bill?  Pretty sure that is a legislative matter there big fella . . .

what I think is hilarious is that Kathy Nickolaus still has her job, and is in charge of counting votes in the darling election. How on earth is she still in control over any election at all? Didnt anyone see a potnetial conflict with her at all? It doesnt matter if the votes were 95% for darling, becasue she is involved it would be challenged.   Great . . .more controversy.

[gbpfan1231]

bpwallace49, on 8/9/11 11:23pm, said:

But didnt all those republicans directly implement and force through the bill?  Pretty sure that is a legislative matter there big fella . . .

what I think is hilarious is that Kathy Nickolaus still has her job, and is in charge of counting votes in the darling election. How on earth is she still in control over any election at all? Didnt anyone see a potnetial conflict with her at all? It doesnt matter if the votes were 95% for darling, becasue she is involved it would be challenged.   Great . . .more controversy.

We finally agree - she should have been fired.

[bpwallace49]

gbpfan1231, on 8/9/11 11:28pm, said:

We finally agree - she should have been fired.

Holy christ . . . hell is gettin frosty . . .

[Ditkaless Wonders]

The Democrats not having campaigned on their leaving the state argument leaves me flat for the following reason.  How could they campaign on a reaction to an initiative that had not yet been raised?

Oh, I think the move was childish and sets a very bad precedent, but the argument in this thread seems to lack merit.  I am certain one could find promises they backed out on, or actions undertaken that they did not promise, since that seems true of all politicians.  The specific argument, seems to me, however, to lack some merit.

I would save recalls for teason, sedition, major felonies, perhaps.  I am willing to consider changing the system to accomodate them on very specific and explicit pledges as well, but this effort, this is a very destructive development that is sure to escalate destructive partisan politics.  IMO

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders, 09 August 2011 - 11:55 PM.

[bpwallace49]

How much you want to bet thatthe really close races (Or any where Kathy incompetent Nickolaus is involved) will end up going to recount?



and the clusterf*ck in wisconsin continues . . .

[Azazello1313]

so....2 out of 6, and now some dems on the hot seat next week?  not sure george soros and big labor are going to like that return on investment.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Are the winners of these elections going to hold up WWF championship belts too?

[gbpfan1231]

Azazello1313, on 8/10/11 12:38am, said:

so....2 out of 6, and now some dems on the hot seat next week?  not sure george soros and big labor are going to like that return on investment.

That is almost $200 per Democratic vote - and that does not even count the cost of free Bar B Q and raffle prizes that were illegally done to cast votes that did not get them the win.

Good Day in Wisconsin.

[Yukon Cornelius]

gained 2 seats in some of the reddest counties in Wisconsin which is a really good indicator for what will happen to Walker when his time comes.

[Azazello1313]

Yukon Cornelius, on 8/10/11 10:42am, said:

gained 2 seats in some of the reddest counties in Wisconsin

your spin is inaccurate:

Quote

In the 32nd district, nestled in the southwestern corner of the state, Kapanke lost to state Rep. Jennifer Shilling. This is unsurprising. Kapanke’s district is Democratic, giving Justice Prosser only 42 percent of the vote, and John McCain 38 percent in 2008. With an engaged Democratic electorate and a quality opponent, it was only a matter of time before Kapanke lost.

The 18th district is more heavily Republican -- McCain scored 47 percent of the vote there, and Prosser won 53 percent. But the incumbent’s estranged wife claimed that he lived outside of the district with his mistress (and she actually joined the recall effort -- along with the family housekeeper). In addition, Hopper faced the same opponent who had come less than a half point from unseating him in 2008, before the scandal broke.

so one of the pickups is in a very blue district, and the other knocked off a d00shbag embroiled in a sex scandal.  $31 million just doesn't buy what it used to.

[bpwallace49]

This is maybe the best possible outcome for Wisconsin. Not for partisan politics on either side, but for WISCONSIN.

The Dems pick up two seats, and the Republicans maintain control by a slight margin. If the Repubs would have swept, then the right could see it as a mandate to completely ignore and steamroll the minority without recourse. It could have led to another fleeing the state situation. If the Dems picked up more seats, then insta-gridlock at the capital. Nothing would get done.

But by losing two seats to the Dems, now walker can still proceed, but use it as an opportunity to reach out and try to calm the crazy emotions on both sides. If he does do this, then it takes all the air out of a Walker recall, which has a very very high threshold  (540,000 signatures) to initate. It will marginalize the entire recall effort, and get back to running the state.

Instead of hyper partisans saying "yeah, screw the dems, screw the unions, they all buy votes   " and "Walker eats babies and teachers and gave the Koch brothers a Boxflex yesterday  " hopefully this can be a time of mending fences and actually letting some of the policies come to fruition.

If Walker has an ounce of political self-awareness, he should be avoiding gloating or snappy sound bites. Just quietly state how the people have spoken, lets get to work TOGETHER, and actually listen to the opposition.

[bpwallace49]

Azazello1313, on 8/10/11 11:50am, said:

$31 million just doesn't buy what it used to.

You DO realize that 31 million was the total spent for BOTH sides . . right?  For Republicans AND Democrats?  

[tosberg34]

bpwallace49, on 8/10/11 1:23pm, said:

This is maybe the best possible outcome for Wisconsin. Not for partisan politics on either side, but for WISCONSIN.

The Dems pick up two seats, and the Republicans maintain control by a slight margin. If the Repubs would have swept, then the right could see it as a mandate to completely ignore and steamroll the minority without recourse. It could have led to another fleeing the state situation. If the Dems picked up more seats, then insta-gridlock at the capital. Nothing would get done.

But by losing two seats to the Dems, now walker can still proceed, but use it as an opportunity to reach out and try to calm the crazy emotions on both sides. If he does do this, then it takes all the air out of a Walker recall, which has a very very high threshold  (540,000 signatures) to initate. It will marginalize the entire recall effort, and get back to running the state.

Instead of hyper partisans saying "yeah, screw the dems, screw the unions, they all buy votes   " and "Walker eats babies and teachers and gave the Koch brothers a Boxflex yesterday  " hopefully this can be a time of mending fences and actually letting some of the policies come to fruition.

If Walker has an ounce of political self-awareness, he should be avoiding gloating or snappy sound bites. Just quietly state how the people have spoken, lets get to work TOGETHER, and actually listen to the opposition.

Lost two seats but they are going to pick up at least one seat next Tuesday.  Possibly two if the momentum sticks.  Also, so you don't think this loss to take back the Senate doesn't take ALL of the air out of the Walker recall now?  And on top of that, with the Budget actually WORKING, you think people are still going to recall him?

That recall is as dead as Elvis Presley.

Edited by tosberg34, 10 August 2011 - 05:16 PM.

[tosberg34]

Yukon Cornelius, on 8/10/11 11:42am, said:

gained 2 seats in some of the reddest counties in Wisconsin which is a really good indicator for what will happen to Walker when his time comes.

Apparently, De Nile is not just a river in Egypt.