arnoldg3 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I read DMD's sleeper tightend article today. Gresham is being drafted 21 among tightends and DMD says that he's not high on him. I checked Huddles performance cheet sheet. He is ranked 14th. In Huddle PPR he is ranked 11. Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUMbotron Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 1. Bo Scaife 2. Gresham nicked with undisclosed injury last week 3. Bengals 4. Bengals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoldg3 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I was questioning the contradiction between the sleeper list and the cheat sheet recommendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 He tells you the contradiction. The Sleeper article isn't opinion-based, it's taken from MFL's actual draft order. Â Using the average draft results as of 8/20/11 at MyFantasyLeague.com, below are the tight ends that are being drafted from #9 to #28. This is not my ranking or yours, it is the combined results of hundreds of drafts so it is about as close to what you can expect in your league as you can reasonably find. Â He never said he's not high on Gresham. Quite the opposite, he identifies players on that list in blue he's "cooll" on and Gresham isn't in that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAYER Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I was questioning the contradiction between the sleeper list and the cheat sheet recommendations. reading usually helps. the sleeper lists are from mfl's adp ratings and if you are questioning DMD not liking him that's a personal thing and has nothing to do with his job of ranking players for the masses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Well, in fairness to the OP, while not coded blue, the write-up is hardly flattering, so one would not assume that DMD thinks he's a value as the 21st TE drafted. And if DMD has him as 14, you'd think he would. Â My guess is that, not unlike the weekly projections and sit/start articles that don't always jibe, this is an example of the fact that the Huddle, like virtually every other Fantasy website is a collection of guys who don't always see eye to eye on every player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 that the Huddle, like virtually every other Fantasy website is a collection of guys who don't always see eye to eye on every player. DMD wrote both, which is why I'm sure the OP is asking  I'm guessing that the difference between the #14 TE and the #21 TE, whatever the context of the article, isn't a big huge thing to track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efi4eye Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Bo Scaife, really? I don't see him being a threat to Gresham, whatsoever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoldg3 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I would assume that since DMD wrote the sleeper tight end article and also compiled the cheat sheet rankings that different people being involved would not be the case here. Although, if Tuvey had ranked him alot higher than DMD, and had a bigger role in ranking him there, that would explain the contradiction. By the way, in response to someones earlier remark about not liking DMD. First of all I have the utmost respect for his ability. I wouldnt have subscribed to his site if that were not the case. His writings, as well as the writings by the other staff members are both enjoyable and extremely well written. That being said, this is a great format to have an open and honest dialogue. Personal feelings have nothing to do with it. Difference of opinion is one thing. Contradictions are another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 DMD wrote both, which is why I'm sure the OP is asking  I'm guessing that the difference between the #14 TE and the #21 TE, whatever the context of the article, isn't a big huge thing to track. If that's the case, then the OP has a point. Mind you, a somewhat random point, because we're talking about a guy not rated high enough to even get drafted in many leagues.  However...  Gresham carved out 52-471-4 between TO and Ochocinco; now he'll be playing in a TE-friendly West Coast offense, flanked by an inexperienced group of wideouts. Even the prospect of a rookie quarterback shouldn't dampen expectations of Gresham stepping up his productivity in 2011.  While yes, lots of people like Gresham as a sleeper type, I see him more as a Bengal with no QB. He had 52-471 and four scores with Carson Palmer last year. That has to be a ceiling with inexperienced QB's and an all-around worse team.  That doesn't sound like the same guy describing the same player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2v Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I don't know that I'm significantly higher on Gresham than DMD; I like him at the top of Tier 3 or sneaking into Tier 2 in a PPR league. He's my starting TE in the 14-team Sirius XM experts draft we just finished. Got him in Round 9, took him ahead of Gonzo, used my last pick on Shiancoe as a backup. Was one pick away from Witten in R5 and a couple away from Winslow in R7, but after that I figured there was no difference between the guys that would go off the board in that area so I waited. Scaife doesn't worry me. The upside of a WCO with no proven wideouts suggests he'll be a solid PPR contributor. Â 2V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Gresham carved out 52-471-4 between TO and Ochocinco; now he'll be playing in a TE-friendly West Coast offense, flanked by an inexperienced group of wideouts. Even the prospect of a rookie quarterback shouldn't dampen expectations of Gresham stepping up his productivity in 2011. Not sure where that's from, but it's not from what the OP is questioning I don't think? Huddle's performance cheat sheet doesn't have comments, just the TE rankings with Gresham at 14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2v Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Not sure where that's from, but it's not from what the OP is questioning I don't think? Huddle's performance cheat sheet doesn't have comments, just the TE rankings with Gresham at 14. Â If that's from the player profile, 2011 outlook, that was likely me. So I guess I'm an optimistic 11 and DMD is a pessimistic 14 on Gresham. I don't recall a heated argument over where we had him ranked, so we couldn't have been that far apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Not sure where that's from, but it's not from what the OP is questioning I don't think? Huddle's performance cheat sheet doesn't have comments, just the TE rankings with Gresham at 14. It's from the TE rankings page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoldg3 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Perhaps DMD has reevaluated his position.Thats fine, and actually vital to keeping the rankings updated properly. All I'm saying is that this change of heart should be reflected in the actual rankings. If I draft Gresham late in my ppr league, as my backup tight end, because he is ranked 11th, I dont want to read an article by the owner of the site, the same day, that says he cant even justify picking him as the 21st best tight end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Oh I thought OP meant TE cheat sheet  haha  J2V you kind of made my point, the diff from #14 to #21 isn't exactly monumental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Perhaps DMD has reevaluated his position.Thats fine, and actually vital to keeping the rankings updated properly. All I'm saying is that this change of heart should be reflected in the actual rankings. If I draft Gresham late in my ppr league, as my backup tight end, because he is ranked 11th, I dont want to read an article by the owner of the site, the same day, that says he cant even justify picking him as the 21st best tight end. Are you really not understanding that #21 isn't DMD's ranking, it's from the ADP list on MFL? Edited August 23, 2011 by flemingd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2v Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Are you really not understanding that #21 isn't DMD's ranking, it's from the ADP list on MFL? Â I think what OP is saying is that if The Huddle rankings have him at 11 or 14 or wherever, then if his ADP is 21 he should be considered a value--and DMD's sleeper article doesn't necessarily treat him that way. I would suggest that the rankings are based on our projections while "sleeper" and this article in particular are more based on a gut feel than hard numbers. Â And again, I think there's a big glut of TEs in this range where the difference between the expected numbers from #12 through #20 is negligible, at which point gut feel comes more into play. Â 2V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUMbotron Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 13 User(s) are reading this topic (6 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users) 7 Members: JUMbotron, Big John, j2v, skinsfan827, Atlas, CaP'N GRuNGe, Detfed91 Â We need football to start.... BAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I think what OP is saying I'm just going by what he posted: Â I dont want to read an article by the owner of the site, the same day, that says he cant even justify picking him as the 21st best tight end. Â Jumbo is right though, we need the season to start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoldg3 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 In response to j2v's comment. If your gut feeling is that much different than your rankings, then I think the rankings need to reflect that. According to the sleeper article, DMD doesnt seem to like Gresham at all. As far as there not being much difference between the 11th ranking and 21st, According to Huddle PPR projections, Gresham will get 156 points. The 21st ranked tight end is projected to get 123. I would say that this represents a very big difference, as well as the need then to choose a higher rated tight end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 There are several dynamics at play. The ranking via ADP that shows Gresham at 21 is one that probably changes daily as drafts occur and is only the average of hundreds of drafts. My writeup of Gresham noted that lots of people see him as a sleeper but I don't because of his QB situation. I did not say I was cool on him, I am just not hot on him. I have seen Gresham going in drafts far earlier than 21 lately too. I have him ranked 14th and oddly enough he went 14th in the Sirius XM draft I was in today. Rankings are born of projections which indicates the most likely scenario I see for a player but by no means all scenarios or can it take into account risk, consistency, etc. I don't like CIN offense much at all this year and so far have avoided all their players but I rank them all of course. Â And again - I did not call him a bust or code him blue as a guy I am down on. I just am not high on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 And another thing, if I was in a draft that followed ADP closely, I would not take Gresham at 21 because I like Watson more (ranked 15th) but he is 25th ADP. I like Lance Kendricks more too (ranked 18th with ADP of 20) and he rarely ever goes before Gresham in any of my drafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoldg3 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 So then if I understand you correctly, you still rank Gresham as the number 11th ranked tight end in ppr, despite everything else you have just said to the contrary concerning the Bengals poor team etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAYER Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Amazing, simply amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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