need advice on argument in league...

[Goopster24]

Thanks in advance for advice.

 

I'm commissioner of this league, has been in existence about 12 years, same guys for most part.

 

Keeper league with practice squads. One owner did not attend the live draft yesterday. I updated him via Google Spreadsheet. It was a pain in the ass for me as commissioner to both draft my team and update the spreadsheet for each pick.

 

We have rule in our league that full teams need to be drafted; so you cannot NOT draft a kicker and then wait until free agency starts to pick one up, later dropping a player. There is no penalty in place for not abiding by this rule. But the rule is on the books and I made it clear to everyone in attendance of the draft. It also has been in effect every year of the draft.

 

Owner A, the owner who did not attend draft, forgot this rule. He came to 18th round without having drafted a kicker. He drafted Aaron Hernandez. I missed this as I was doing multiple things at once, saying goodbye to people leaving, updating spreadsheet, drafting for myself, etc.

 

Owner B left the draft a round early because he had a long drive home to southern Illinois. I was in charge of picking his last pick. He wrote down for me to pick Aaron Hernandez. He picked directly after Owner A.

 

In the moment, I did not realize the mistake and gave a random player to Owner B. It wasn't until I was uploading rosters to Yahoo when I realized the mistake.

 

My belief is that Owner B should be awarded Hernandez and this was a mistake on my part. Owner A is complaining saying he should be able to choose any player he wants to drop; he wants to keep Hernandez.

 

This is unique because I was in charge of drafting for another team for last pick (mistake on my part) and was instructed to draft Hernandez; he technically should have been available if it wasn't for my mistake on not noticing Owner A did not draft a kicker. If I had noticed, he would not have been allowed to draft any player besides a kicker.

 

Someone proposed having both owners bid on the player using their FAAB but I think that's unfair to have them start at a disadvantage money wise before season even starts.

 

What should I do? Thanks again for the help.

[Jackass]

pretty clear IMO. Team A needed a kicker with the last pick. he shouldn't have been able to pick hernandez. he gets a choice of kickers. Team B gets hernandez.

[The 13ers]

Thanks in advance for advice.

 

I'm commissioner of this league, has been in existence about 12 years, same guys for most part.

 

Keeper league with practice squads. One owner did not attend the live draft yesterday. I updated him via Google Spreadsheet. It was a pain in the ass for me as commissioner to both draft my team and update the spreadsheet for each pick.

 

We have rule in our league that full teams need to be drafted; so you cannot NOT draft a kicker and then wait until free agency starts to pick one up, later dropping a player. There is no penalty in place for not abiding by this rule. But the rule is on the books and I made it clear to everyone in attendance of the draft. It also has been in effect every year of the draft.

 

Owner A, the owner who did not attend draft, forgot this rule. He came to 18th round without having drafted a kicker. He drafted Aaron Hernandez. I missed this as I was doing multiple things at once, saying goodbye to people leaving, updating spreadsheet, drafting for myself, etc.

 

Owner B left the draft a round early because he had a long drive home to southern Illinois. I was in charge of picking his last pick. He wrote down for me to pick Aaron Hernandez. He picked directly after Owner A.

 

In the moment, I did not realize the mistake and gave a random player to Owner B. It wasn't until I was uploading rosters to Yahoo when I realized the mistake.

 

My belief is that Owner B should be awarded Hernandez and this was a mistake on my part. Owner A is complaining saying he should be able to choose any player he wants to drop; he wants to keep Hernandez.

 

This is unique because I was in charge of drafting for another team for last pick (mistake on my part) and was instructed to draft Hernandez; he technically should have been available if it wasn't for my mistake on not noticing Owner A did not draft a kicker. If I had noticed, he would not have been allowed to draft any player besides a kicker.

 

Someone proposed having both owners bid on the player using their FAAB but I think that's unfair to have them start at a disadvantage money wise before season even starts.

 

What should I do? Thanks again for the help.

Since owner A selected him, he should be able to keep him. It's his fault he didn't know the rules.

 

You know what SHOULD have happened, but it didn't. Hernandez wasn't available. End of discussion. Team A should have no K the first week.

 

I feel if an owner is too dumb to know the rules, then they should suffer the consequences. It's just too bad it comes at the expense of another team.

[delusions of grandeur]

Since owner A selected him, he should be able to keep him. It's his fault he didn't know the rules.

 

You know what SHOULD have happened, but it didn't. Hernandez wasn't available. End of discussion. Team A should have no K the first week.

 

I feel if an owner is too dumb to know the rules, then they should suffer the consequences. It's just too bad it comes at the expense of another team.

If he was only hurting his own team, then that's one thing, but the fact that the illegal move came at the expense of another team is precisely why you should rectify the situation... Not to mention it's an illegal move, which by definition means you can't let it stand. It's illegal according to the rules.

 

I agree with Jackass, you should force player A to draft a remaining kicker as is required, and award him to Owner B... Though be sure to explain to your leaguemates that that you are only rewarding him to B because they picked back-to-back and he had Hernandez penciled in... If that had not been the case, and there were more owners who missed out on the opportunity because of the illegal move, then really you're only option then would have been to release him as an FA for bidding.

 

(ETA: and if they give you any trouble, feel free to send them over here and we'll help you slap some sense into them )

Edited September 6, 2011 by delusions of granduer

[detlef]

pretty clear IMO. Team A needed a kicker with the last pick. he shouldn't have been able to pick hernandez. he gets a choice of kickers. Team B gets hernandez.

This. Simplest, tidiest, and most fair way to go.

 

ETA: Watch Hernandez go for 200 yds and 2TDs for the year and be waiver-bait come week 4. How many times has something like this become a lightning rod issue and the dude doesn't even end up being worth the trouble.

Edited September 6, 2011 by detlef

[No Quarter]

This. Simplest, tidiest, and most fair way to go.

 

 

Yep, pretty straight straight forward as these things go. An accidental illegal move do to unusual circumstances. Team A is required to take a kicker and Team B gets Hernandez. Shouldn't even be a problem in my opinion.

[Goopster24]

This. Simplest, tidiest, and most fair way to go.

 

ETA: Watch Hernandez go for 200 yds and 2TDs for the year and be waiver-bait come week 4. How many times has something like this become a lightning rod issue and the dude doesn't even end up being worth the trouble.

 

Ha I hear ya. It's funny because Owner B has been involved in multiple fiascos, basically being the one arguing in other instances. This time, I think he's on the right side.

[CurlyDumps]

There's no consequence for breaking the rule, but I'm assuming you would have disallowed the pick had you realized Team A hadn't taken a kicker, yet? If that's the case, I agree w/ Jackass. You made an understandable mistake. Owner A should stop whining. Also, I'd be partial to the guy who made it to the live draft. Especially since it sounds like he travelled pretty far to be there. if someone plays in a league that has a live draft, and he doesn't attend, he runs the risk of stuff like this happening, and definitely shouldn't be rewarded for it.

[Grits and Shins]

Under no circumstances does Team A get to drop any player he wants. The way I see it there are two options

 

1) Rosters are frozen and Team A goes without a kicker in week 1

2) The illegal pick of Hernandez is reversed, Hernandez is awarded to Team B and Team A picks up a kicker

 

Since I believe the pick of Hernandez never would have been allowed at the draft had everybody been paying attention I think option 2 is the way to go.

[westvirginia]

I'm w/everyone else. Team A has to drop his LAST player drafted and take a K.

[Ursa Majoris]

Yep, pretty straight straight forward as these things go. An accidental illegal move do to unusual circumstances. Team A is required to take a kicker and Team B gets Hernandez. Shouldn't even be a problem in my opinion.

Agreed

[marcheese]

My league has similar rules. We always drop the last player drafted by the illegal roster in order for them to make their roster legal. If owner B had Hernandez penciled in, then I would award Hernandez to Owner B. Negligence of the rules is not a defense. He must have a valid roster after the draft. Owner A didn't.

Edited September 6, 2011 by marcheese

[bizkit34]

pretty clear IMO. Team A needed a kicker with the last pick. he shouldn't have been able to pick hernandez. he gets a choice of kickers. Team B gets hernandez.

 

+1

[Goopster24]

Hi guys, thanks for all the responses. Seems pretty unanimous. Please chime in still if you feel one way or the other, I like being able to go back to my league and say "experienced" fantasy footballers all agree with me.

 

Is drafting complete lineups a common thing? I would think so and it prevents people from drafting extra players, only to them cut people on their terms when they get an extra player.

[delusions of grandeur]

Is drafting complete lineups a common thing? I would think so and it prevents people from drafting extra players, only to them cut people on their terms when they get an extra player.

 

Not sure what the problem is there... If someone wants to use an extra roster spot on another position, then fine, they'll just have to drop someone later to pick up a kicker or whoever... I guess it could prevent position-hoarding, but if they're doing that then they're sacrificing a spot somewhere else, and again would have to either drop someone or take a zero if they don't pick up a kicker ... If anything it actually gives owners added flexibility if they aren't as sure about a position, and can decide better what dead-weight later to drop.

 

I've heard of other leagues doing position requirements/limits, but most leagues are of the mind that you let owners manage their teams as they see fit.

Edited September 6, 2011 by delusions of granduer

[Outshined]

Hi guys, thanks for all the responses. Seems pretty unanimous. Please chime in still if you feel one way or the other, I like being able to go back to my league and say "experienced" fantasy footballers all agree with me.

 

Is drafting complete lineups a common thing? I would think so and it prevents people from drafting extra players, only to them cut people on their terms when they get an extra player.

 

 

Yeah - we were drafting live last weekend, but using the online draft room as a draft board. The roster requirements were set up and one owner tried the same hing. It would not let him draft a player he wanted because he still needed a kicker. He was probably trying the same tactic.

 

I agree with reversing the pick. Some have said he should keep Hernandez and go without a kicker. I would not go down that road of making up new rules. Maybe look at clarifying this rule or add to it.

[Goopster24]

I plan on clarifying the rule and adding a clear penalty. Since we normally do live drafts, this situation might come up again, but hopefully not because I will catch it.

 

I like the idea that a team cannot start a kicker week 1. I would go even further to say maybe week 2 as well; the reason being an owner might not view a one week subtraction of kicker points that big of a deal if it means they can grab an extra sleeper and take a gamble.

 

Is that a stretch?

Edited September 6, 2011 by Goopster24

[i_am_the_swammi]

I'm gonna disagree with most here.

 

If you are going to make Team A have a kicker on their squad, they should be allowed to drop whomever they wish. Why would it default to their last pick? Seems arbitrary. Point is, they could have drafted a kicker with any of their 18 draft picks, and if you are going to enforce the rule and make them select a kicker, they should consequently be allowed to drop any of those 18 draft picks to get one.

 

If you are not going to enforce the rule, then the cleanest thing, IMO, is to make them go without a kicker in Week 1....ample penalty for them opting not to draft one. After week 1, normal drop/add rules should dictate whether they want to add one for week 2.

Edited September 6, 2011 by i_am_the_swammi

[Goopster24]

I do see both sides of the argument for the most part. There are two main problems that complicate the issue:

 

1. There is no penalty in place.

 

and

 

2. I was in charge of drafting for the next team and was instructed to pick Hernandez.

 

The reason (in my mind) it would default to last pick is if you get to 18th round (last round in our draft), you are required (by rules) to have a kicker on your squad, forcing you to pick a kicker. That in itself makes sense, according to the rule "on the book." No? If we were using computer software, Owner A would not have been allowed to pick anyone besides a kicker with his last pick.

[Goopster24]

What also bugs me is everyone knew the rule. It was stated at the draft. Granted, Owner A was not present physically at draft. BUT this rule has been in place for the last 12 years. It has been talked about.

 

Also what bugs me is he says he was "waiting" on Hernandez; he was targeting him in the last round. This guy had no intention of drafting a kicker. That is against the rules.

[BearBroncos]

Lets just hope Team A isn't Taz.... :shutters: That's 2 or 3 weeks of threats of quiting the league..

 

Just kidding my brother! Or am I?

[delusions of grandeur]

I'm gonna disagree with most here.

 

If you are going to make Team A have a kicker on their squad, they should be allowed to drop whomever they wish. Why would it default to their last pick? Seems arbitrary. Point is, they could have drafted a kicker with any of their 18 draft picks, and if you are going to enforce the rule and make them select a kicker, they should consequently be allowed to drop any of those 18 draft picks to get one.

 

If you are not going to enforce the rule, then the cleanest thing, IMO, is to make them go without a kicker in Week 1....ample penalty for them opting not to draft one. After week 1, normal drop/add rules should dictate whether they want to add one for week 2.

The problem with letting him drop whichever player he wants opens up a huge can of worms, when many others could say "well I would have drafted player X there if he hadn't"... In this case, you only have 1 disgruntled party to deal with, and because he was directly behind the player who made the illegal move (note that the move was not illegal until the 18th round), then the situation is easily rectified... I agree that if circumstances were more ambiguous, then you'd have to use discretion, but this is the best solution for this clearcut circumstance...

 

 

But again, maybe the OP can explain better why this is such an important rule to you to the point of punishing a team with 1 less player in their lineup over what could be an honest oversight... I've not drafted kickers both on purpose and on accident because I had my eye on other players, and I really don't see an issue if I wait until later to drop my 18th, 17th, 16th, etc., to do so, rather than being required to then... Not trying to second guess your rules, but I guess I don't see the reasoning in making it a requirement that you draft a position that tends to be a dime-a-dozen anyway (or any position for that matter. You pay your entry, you manage your roster as you see fit)...

Edited September 6, 2011 by delusions of granduer

[i_am_the_swammi]

Also what bugs me is he says he was "waiting" on Hernandez; he was targeting him in the last round. This guy had no intention of drafting a kicker. That is against the rules.

 

If he as targeting him in the last round, it sounds to me as if he completely forgot about the "must have a kicker" rule. Likely a by-product of him not being able to be present at the draft. Had he been there, I am sure it would have been noticed by someone, and likely mentioned at some point a few rounds earlier in passing...which then would have given him the chance to adjust his strategy if indeed he really wanted Hernandez.

 

Tough spot for sure.

 

Question: in Week 2, is it illegal to not have a kicker? Or could a team opt to go without one?

[Goopster24]

The problem with letting him drop whichever player he wants opens up a huge can of worms, when many others could say "well I would have drafted player X there if he hadn't"... In this case, you only have 1 disgruntled party to deal with, and because he was directly behind the player who made the illegal move (note that the move was not illegal until the 18th round), then the situation is easily rectified... I agree that if circumstances were more ambiguous, then you'd have to use discretion, but this is the best solution for this clearcut circumstance...

 

 

But again, maybe the OP can explain better why this is such an important rule to you to the point of punishing a team with 1 less player in their lineup over what could be an honest oversight... I've not drafted kickers both on purpose and on accident because I had my eye on other players, and I really don't see an issue if I wait until later to drop my 18th, 17th, 16th, etc., to do so, rather than being required to then... Not trying to second guess your rules, but I guess I don't see the reasoning in making it a requirement that you draft a position that tends to be a dime-a-dozen anyway (or any position for that matter. You pay your entry, you manage your roster as you see fit)...

 

I guess I've never really thought about "why" the rule is in place; it just makes sense to me and most in the league. Again, I see both sides of the argument. But I tend to side with the thinking you shouldn't be allowed to "hoard" players, even though it's only one extra player.

 

I don't know for sure whether this was an honest oversight or on accident. I do know what he told me: that he was waiting to draft Hernandez in the 18th. That leads me to believe he had no intention of drafting a kicker, which (agree or disagree with the rule) is a rule.

[marcheese]

The rule is that every team must draft a kicker. He did not draft a kicker. Doesn't get any simpler than that does it?