i_am_the_swammi Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Swammi: Say you were that guy and you were seemingly unaware that you had to take a kicker and were bold enough to assume that you didn't have to draft a complete team. So, you make your last pick of Hernandez and Goopster, being on it says, "Dude, you need a kicker. You can't take him." What would you do then? If we were all "live" and in the same room, and the mistake was caught on time? The commish would be correct in denying the pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 If we were all "live" and in the same room, and the mistake was caught on time? The commish would be correct in denying the pick. How does being live and in the same room have any bearing whatsoever on whether or not the rule was violated? Basically what you seem to be advocating is that it is ok to violate league rules (knowingly or unknowingly) and if you happen to get away with it, you should be rewarded. Next thing you'll be defending this guy and telling him it is fine if he can get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 If we were all "live" and in the same room, and the mistake was caught on time? The commish would be correct in denying the pick. So what's the difference? If you truly wanted to make a stink, I suppose you could demand to be able to choose any of the kickers taken after your pick, but that would seem rather petty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Seriously, are you just trying to drive me crazy? Not trying to drive you crazy...just trying to wrap my head around things. Like I said earlier, the only thing that Goop can do at this point is indeed reverse the pick and make him draft a kicker. I've said that numerous times. I just think its unfortunate for Owner A, and am trying to look at alternatives than to force him to miss out on a player who he felt he had every right to wait on....mistaken as that thought may have been, and avoidable had be just been present at the draft and privy to the chatter than everyone else was about the rules. Like I said before, he likely would have taken Hernandez a round earlier in round 17 to ensure he got him, had he been aware of the rule. I know, I know...every owner should know all the rules. But as Goop said, someone else asked about it earlier in the draft, so it was a rule that carried some ambiguity. It was cleared up for everyone earlier in the draft....everyone except Owner A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) the actual hard-ass solution would be dropping hernandez into the waiver pool for next week, just negating the illegal pick and not offering a replacement. guy rides this week with no kicker and everybody has an equal shot at hernandez through waivers. swammi's argument here, as I see it, fails for two reasons: 1) this is not a new rule, it's apparently a long-standing rule in this league, and it is in fact the default rule (that you have to draft a full legal lineup) more often than not. 2) the "loss" to the guy making the illegal pick is the EXACT same as if the commish caught it right away. the pick gets reversed and he has to take a kicker. he suffers no loss whatsoever beyond the player that he picked illegally anyway. Edited September 6, 2011 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Not trying to drive you crazy...just trying to wrap my head around things. Like I said earlier, the only thing that Goop can do at this point is indeed reverse the pick and make him draft a kicker. I've said that numerous times. I just think its unfortunate for Owner A, and am trying to look at alternatives than to force him to miss out on a player who he felt he had every right to wait on....mistaken as that thought may have been, and avoidable had be just been present at the draft and privy to the chatter than everyone else was about the rules. Like I said before, he likely would have taken Hernandez a round earlier in round 17 to ensure he got him, had he been aware of the rule. I know, I know...every owner should know all the rules. But as Goop said, someone else asked about it earlier in the draft, so it was a rule that carried some ambiguity. It was cleared up for everyone earlier in the draft....everyone except Owner A. I'll assume this was of his own doing and not because the rest of the league didn't invite him to the draft site, therefore it was a self-imposed limitation and he should most definitely live with the consequences, up to and including missing out on the draft day chatter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 How does being live and in the same room have any bearing whatsoever on whether or not the rule was violated? Basically what you seem to be advocating is that it is ok to violate league rules (knowingly or unknowingly) and if you happen to get away with it, you should be rewarded. Next thing you'll be defending this guy and telling him it is fine if he can get away with it. Of course the rule as violated...thats pretty apparent. What Goop is trying to figure out is the best way to handle it with a group of guys he has known for 12 years in the same league...not some anonymous online league where there is no room for understanding the facts and circumstances that led to the rule being broken, and the possibility of a compromise worked out that everyone would be OK with because they are all friends. And no, I wouldn't advocate any owner wishing to collude against other owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious_bass Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Not trying to drive you crazy...just trying to wrap my head around things. Like I said earlier, the only thing that Goop can do at this point is indeed reverse the pick and make him draft a kicker. I've said that numerous times. I just think its unfortunate for Owner A, and am trying to look at alternatives than to force him to miss out on a player who he felt he had every right to wait on....mistaken as that thought may have been, and avoidable had be just been present at the draft and privy to the chatter than everyone else was about the rules. Like I said before, he likely would have taken Hernandez a round earlier in round 17 to ensure he got him, had he been aware of the rule. I know, I know...every owner should know all the rules. But as Goop said, someone else asked about it earlier in the draft, so it was a rule that carried some ambiguity. It was cleared up for everyone earlier in the draft....everyone except Owner A. Period. End of story. I really cant believe there is even anything to think about here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Several thing seems clear to me in all this ... 1) Owner A violated a rule by not drafting a kicker 2) Under NO circumstances should Team A be allowed to keep Hernandez as this was an illegal move. I reverse illegal moves in my league all the time - this is not unusual. The only open discussions should be around the following questions: 1) Should Team A be allowed to pick up a kicker? I see no reason not to allow the owner to acquire a kicker. However, if waivers are frozen and the league raises a stink about it then I have no problem telling the owner he is SOL and will have do without a PK until normal waivers. 2) Should Team B be awarded Hernandez? This one is a bit stickier. My first thought is to award him to Team B. This does have a trickle down effect though as each subsequent team to draft should have the opportunity to draft players that were previously drafted but are now available do to the change (BUT NO OTHER PLAYERS). It is hard to penalize Team B because Team A made an illegal move and the commissioner didn't immediate enforce the rule. However, should the league raise a stink about this move then I might just push Hernandez into the first waivers and let the chips fall where they may. This is the firckin 18th round we are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 This is the firckin 18th round we are talking about. Which makes the whole stink particularly amusing. Yet, every-freaking-year, someone is arguing that this is some make or break pick that they're being screwed out of. Hernandez, who is now so coveted that there's an uproar. Yet, he was also so coveted that, depending on the league size, somewhere north of 170 players were chosen before anyone bothered to call his name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Thanks in advance for advice. I'm commissioner of this league, has been in existence about 12 years, same guys for most part. Keeper league with practice squads. One owner did not attend the live draft yesterday. I updated him via Google Spreadsheet. It was a pain in the ass for me as commissioner to both draft my team and update the spreadsheet for each pick. We have rule in our league that full teams need to be drafted; so you cannot NOT draft a kicker and then wait until free agency starts to pick one up, later dropping a player. There is no penalty in place for not abiding by this rule. But the rule is on the books and I made it clear to everyone in attendance of the draft. It also has been in effect every year of the draft. Owner A, the owner who did not attend draft, forgot this rule. He came to 18th round without having drafted a kicker. He drafted Aaron Hernandez. I missed this as I was doing multiple things at once, saying goodbye to people leaving, updating spreadsheet, drafting for myself, etc. Owner B left the draft a round early because he had a long drive home to southern Illinois. I was in charge of picking his last pick. He wrote down for me to pick Aaron Hernandez. He picked directly after Owner A. In the moment, I did not realize the mistake and gave a random player to Owner B. It wasn't until I was uploading rosters to Yahoo when I realized the mistake. My belief is that Owner B should be awarded Hernandez and this was a mistake on my part. Owner A is complaining saying he should be able to choose any player he wants to drop; he wants to keep Hernandez. This is unique because I was in charge of drafting for another team for last pick (mistake on my part) and was instructed to draft Hernandez; he technically should have been available if it wasn't for my mistake on not noticing Owner A did not draft a kicker. If I had noticed, he would not have been allowed to draft any player besides a kicker. Someone proposed having both owners bid on the player using their FAAB but I think that's unfair to have them start at a disadvantage money wise before season even starts. What should I do? Thanks again for the help. this is the only post I'veread in this thread. Owner A keeps hernandez and plays without a K this week.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thews40 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 The rule is that every team must draft a kicker. He did not draft a kicker. Doesn't get any simpler than that does it? +1. If he can't submit a line up because he can't make a legal one, then he's going to get zero for the week. It's a rule, it was an honest oversight, and there really is no question which move to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Unbelievable this thread is 4 pages long - on several levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 Agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) Wrote a lengthy email to everyone explaining my decision to give Hernandez to Owner B. Used arguments from here. Everyone appreciated the thought process and Owner A accepts reasoning. Thanks guys for your help! Edited September 7, 2011 by Goopster24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.K.Trey Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Glad that headache is over for you Goop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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