How does your league handle stat changes that affect outcome of a H2H match?

[Grits and Shins]

Does that include weeks in which there is a Thursday or Saturday game? Or is it the first game on Sunday?

 

I'm planning to add this language to my League's Rules so I just want to make sure I have it right. Thanks for all the help, people.

 

First kick off ... whether it be Thursday, Saturday or Sunday. Once that kick off has occurred no more stat changes.

[montster]

You present it to your league owners as an unresolved issue and trust them to act like adults when deciding the right thing to do going forward. Focus on the fact that this might pop up again, and they might be the recipient when it really counts. That Boldin one a couple of years ago ended up knocking one of our owners out of the Championship game that year - he was NOT a happy camper but voted against himself because it was the right thing to do given the timing.

 

Don't tell them who's involved (they might already know) but rather present it as "if it happens to you how do you want it handled?" It's an official stat change, it changes the result of the game, and nothing has been done that can't be undone in the interim (has it? do you have early pickups/trades already processed?) so they need to decide what the right thing is for the league, not for the two owners involved.

 

Because I don't know what's going to happen when the stat changes go through (I'm fairly confident nothing will be changed, and any stat changes will have to be applied manually), I'm going to alert the league. I'm not going to make them guess -- I'll tell them about the Nicks catch and how it affected my matchup, and that we don't have a rule that addresses this. Then we'll go from there. If someone says, "There's no rule, therefore the original score stands," then it ends there. Most likely, this will end with the original score standing and the league drafting a rule to address this next season.

 

Edit: Regardless of what happens, waivers wouldn't be affected because we have "rolling" waivers, so the order remains the same regardless of record.

Edited September 22, 2011 by montster

[flemingd]

Does that include weeks in which there is a Thursday or Saturday game? Or is it the first game on Sunday?

 

I'm planning to add this language to my League's Rules so I just want to make sure I have it right. Thanks for all the help, people.

We lock it at waiver run since a stat change could affect the WW order.

 

We only do one pickup per week so they are pretty valuable, and it's salt in the wound to get a loss after you've gone late in the waiver order and could have gotten a better guy.

[osu1322]

I still think it's complete BS that the "catch" is being ruled a catch.

 

First off the officials ruled it incomplete (therefore it shouldn't be a catch)

 

Second there was a penalty on the play, which was accepted and therefore negates any yardage, catch or other stat on the play. (if a player catches a 5 yd pass but pass interference is called and the team take the penalty. The player doesn't get credit for the catch and 5 yds does he???)

 

Third Even if it should have been a catch cause he got both feet inbounds, the stat people shouldn't be able to add a catch/yardage due to replays.... Stats record and measure, they don't judge.

[pokerboss]

Hover For Commissioners, click Statistics Changes. Along the top of this menu reads:

 

Check this box to automatically apply all stat changes for all weeks of the season on Thursdays at 10:00am ET

 

Two issues with this:

 

1. This will NOT recalculate your weekly results, so if a win/loss changes as a result, you need to do that manually, which MFL supports.

2. The NFL has no official policy on stat changes. They are usually issued before this, but might not be. Additionally, more change might happen later. They can, officially, issue stat changes at any time days/weeks later.

 

Our league policy is the owner has until the following Waiver Run to request a stat update and change to win/loss result since the waiver run is the first official action in the league affected by standings. This must be owner issued, it is not the responsibility of the commissioner to execute or even notify other owners if he's aware of changes. After Waiver Run standings are official, but stat changes can still be requested and executed as points scored affect other things like tie-breakers in waivers/playoff seedings etc.

 

 

our standings changed automatically

[flemingd]

our standings changed automatically

Interesting, and nice to know. Last time this was relevant for us was 2009 with Boldin and Warner in the playoffs and it didn't at that time. They have probably updated it since, thanks for the info.

[lkirc]

Fantasy Football is based on stats. Whatever official stats the NFL decides on should be the stats that you use for your fantasy league. I can't see, as a commish, wanting to try to determine if those stats are correct or not. A very slippery slope indeed.

 

The timing of the official stats being released is another issue, but not a new one. Run your waivers after the stat corrections come out if possible and you have no issues.

[montster]

our standings changed automatically

 

Nothing has changed in our league. Unless the other 11 owners beg me to please give myself the win, I don't see us changing anything.

 

Interestingly, in my CBS league, the change occurred automatically. The rule in that league states that "official stats will be determined by the CBS Sportsline Web site." I actually played the Nicks owner in that league, but I blew him out, so the score change didn't matter.

 

Next year, when I put in the new rule about scoring changes, I GUARANTEE YOU that I will lose a game because of that rule change.

[Azazello1313]

in this instance, as commish, I think you have to roll with whatever the league site does by default, since it's never been addressed before. the best option, as others have opined, is to have the midweek stat changes applied automatically.

[delusions of grandeur]

Wow, I can't believe how many people think you should just suck up the loss and not do anything. I'm a commish and I'd make the change in an instant, even if meant I ended up losing my own game. Fair is fair. Fantasy stats are based on NFL stats, so if an NFL stat changes, then why shouldn't the same stat be changed in fantasy? It's just common sense, and the fair thing to do. I don't even see what could possibly be debatable about that.

Well, there's a pretty simple reason why it's debateable... It's how the NFL does it, and for good reason. They can't take away your win after the fact because of a call that should have gone the other way, so just the same, some prefer their fantasy league to operate the same way without all of the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" that's much easier to see days after the fact.

 

That's the argument anyway. I do tend to agree that you should strive for getting the scores right, even if that means waiting for official word, but it should still be up to the league whether the game is truly over when it's over, bygones be bygones, or not; There's nothing wrong with doing it either way, and for the sake of simplicity and not causing unforeseen issues, it might even be more fair to go by what the officials scored at the time of the game.

Edited September 22, 2011 by delusions of granduer

[montster]

in this instance, as commish, I think you have to roll with whatever the league site does by default, since it's never been addressed before. the best option, as others have opined, is to have the midweek stat changes applied automatically.

 

Here was the reply from the guy I played against (who is a total stat junkie who barely watches the games at all):

 

Fantasy Football is about the stats. If the stats are wrong, they should be corrected and results adjusted accordingly.

 

But in this case, I disagree with myself.

[kevinkris]

Here was the reply from the guy I played against (who is a total stat junkie who barely watches the games at all):

 

Well really it should be up to the other league mates to decide imo. Obv you are going to want the stats changed, and he won't want them changed. I just assumed that by default it would follow what the nfl does because the stats are based on that, so if the nfl changes a stat, you should also.

[montster]

Well really it should be up to the other league mates to decide imo. Obv you are going to want the stats changed, and he won't want them changed. I just assumed that by default it would follow what the nfl does because the stats are based on that, so if the nfl changes a stat, you should also.

 

Without a rule the states the deadline for when stat changes can be applied, I can't do anything. As others have pointed out, the last thing I want is for someone to dig up some stat change from earlier in the season and say, "Hey, I should've gotten the win that week. You need to change the scoring for that game, too."

[osu1322]

Without a rule the states the deadline for when stat changes can be applied, I can't do anything. As others have pointed out, the last thing I want is for someone to dig up some stat change from earlier in the season and say, "Hey, I should've gotten the win that week. You need to change the scoring for that game, too."

 

 

I understand the slippery slope idea and I'm not harping for a change in my league. (I'm still complaining up a storm but I doubt I could get a majority of the league behind me. )

 

I understand stat corrections. Did MJD get 100 yds or 99 yds is very relevant. My complaint is that the stat keepers are making rulings that refs on the field should be making. Did they miss a call? yes but they should have went with the ruling. I'm curious how this situation would have turned out if they ruled it incomplete and there was no challenge. Would they have still given the pass and catch?? no way.

 

I think that this sets a terrible precedent and will only complicate future close calls like this.

[lkirc]

Well, there's a pretty simple reason why it's debateable... It's how the NFL does it, and for good reason. They can't take away your win after the fact because of a call that should have gone the other way, so just the same, some prefer their fantasy league to operate the same way without all of the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" that's much easier to see days after the fact.

 

That's the argument anyway. I do tend to agree that you should strive for getting the scores right, even if that means waiting for official word, but it should still be up to the league whether the game is truly over when it's over, bygones be bygones, or not; There's nothing wrong with doing it either way, and for the sake of simplicity and not causing unforeseen issues, it might even be more fair to go by what the officials scored at the time of the game.

 

Fair isn't part of the equation here. The official stats are the stats you have to use. Otherwise you are opening up Pandora's box. If a play ruled a forward pass at the time was really a lateral and the stats are changed to reflect that how can you ignore it. It is waht it is. Just because someone made a mistake doesn't turn a run into a pass.

 

The only way thing to do is to use the official stats. That way there is no gray area and therefore no debate. As a commish you can't deal in gray. It has to be black and white because every owner has their own best interests in the back of their mind as they pick sides in a debate.

 

It sucks to lose like this, but you can't argue against using the NFL's official stats. This may seem like the first time this has happened but it happens every year.

[Azazello1313]

if I was commish and it didn't affect me, I would apply the stat corrections. FF is supposed to be based on real stats. what's reported live is a preliminary guesstimate. what's reported on monday morning is a slightly more accurate estimate. what comes out on thursday is official. IMO, there is no sound argument why an early estimate should take priority over the actual stats that go "in the book".

 

but in your case, since you are commish, unilateral action will be seen as self-serving. a league vote with a clear rule going forward would be appropriate. otherwise I guess you just have to eat it.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Azazello1313

[delfamdelfam]

if I was commish and it didn't affect me, I would apply the stat corrections. FF is supposed to be based on real stats. what's reported live is a preliminary guesstimate. what's reported on monday morning is a slightly more accurate estimate. what comes out on thursday is official. IMO, there is no sound argument why an early estimate should take priority over the actual stats that go "in the book".

 

but in your case, since you are commish, unilateral action will be seen as self-serving. a league vote with a clear rule going forward would be appropriate. otherwise I guess you just have to eat it.

I don't get why there has to be a rule in place, stats are stats, if the nfl says they are official why should you not apply them?

[delusions of grandeur]

Fair isn't part of the equation here. The official stats are the stats you have to use. Otherwise you are opening up Pandora's box. If a play ruled a forward pass at the time was really a lateral and the stats are changed to reflect that how can you ignore it. It is waht it is. Just because someone made a mistake doesn't turn a run into a pass.

 

The only way thing to do is to use the official stats. That way there is no gray area and therefore no debate. As a commish you can't deal in gray. It has to be black and white because every owner has their own best interests in the back of their mind as they pick sides in a debate.

 

It sucks to lose like this, but you can't argue against using the NFL's official stats. This may seem like the first time this has happened but it happens every year.

Like I said, I tend to agree with you, but I don't think it's absurd at all to want to stick with the scores that are given to the players at the end of the game.

 

Isn't it also opening up a Pandora's box and making for a mess if this happens during or right before the playoffs when there's a Thursday night game? If it's not readily apparent upon instant replays whether it was a lateral or whatever, then I guess I don't see anything wrong with being at the mercy of those who scored the game. Refs don't get redos later to get it right, and scorers do get it right 99% of the time...

 

No I don't want to be the guy who gets screwed by that 1% of the time, but I also don't know that I'd be happy with having a win taken away because they get to scrutinize it for days to see if there may be some tiny error or not. I can see it both ways...

[Azazello1313]

FYI, the written rule in one league I commish:

 

Scoring will be based on official NFL stats. If the official NFL stats differ from the preliminary stats reported on the [League name] site scoring reports, the official stats hold sway. However, if any disparity between exists between the preliminary stats and the official stats, it must be brought to the attention of the league and/or corrected before the first kickoff of the following week's NFL games, or the preliminary result will remain in effect

[montster]

if I was commish and it didn't affect me, I would apply the stat corrections. FF is supposed to be based on real stats. what's reported live is a preliminary guesstimate. what's reported on monday morning is a slightly more accurate estimate. what comes out on thursday is official. IMO, there is no sound argument why an early estimate should take priority over the actual stats that go "in the book".

 

but in your case, since you are commish, unilateral action will be seen as self-serving. a league vote with a clear rule going forward would be appropriate. otherwise I guess you just have to eat it.

 

I'm on the record in our league as being firmly against making new rules after the season has started. I think we did it once, early in the first year, when there was a pretty glaring oversight, and we put it to a vote. I don't remember what it was, though. In this case, though, I can't do anything because the rule change would directly benefit me. I'd rather take the loss than have people start questioning my fairness.

 

I don't get why there has to be a rule in place, stats are stats, if the nfl says they are official why should you not apply them?

 

Like I said above, I don't want someone digging up an old correction from weeks earlier and saying his loss from that week should be a win.

[Azazello1313]

If it's not readily apparent upon instant replays whether it was a lateral or whatever, then I guess I don't see anything wrong with being at the mercy of those who scored the game.

 

this is where your logic falls down. the live stats are essentially meaningless. they are spit out by some in a closet somewhere. usually it's possible for them to be pretty accurate, but "those who score the game" don't speak until the stats come out on thursday. it's not a real-time process like reffing the game, so you can't compare the two.

[delusions of grandeur]

this is where your logic falls down. the live stats are essentially meaningless. they are spit out by some in a closet somewhere. usually it's possible for them to be pretty accurate, but "those who score the game" don't speak until the stats come out on thursday. it's not a real-time process like reffing the game, so you can't compare the two.

Didn't know that. I was under the impression that these scores were semi-official from an official source. If that's the case then I retract my argument.

[lkirc]

Didn't know that. I was under the impression that these scores were semi-official from an official source. If that's the case then I retract my argument.

 

Wow. I am floored. Props to you for having an open mind. A very rare thing to see on an internet message board.

 

[kevinkris]

I'm on the record in our league as being firmly against making new rules after the season has started. I think we did it once, early in the first year, when there was a pretty glaring oversight, and we put it to a vote. I don't remember what it was, though. In this case, though, I can't do anything because the rule change would directly benefit me. I'd rather take the loss than have people start questioning my fairness.

 

 

 

Like I said above, I don't want someone digging up an old correction from weeks earlier and saying his loss from that week should be a win.

 

You aren't making a new rule at all, you are just following the actual stats. I don't get it, how can you not count it? I get that you don't want people going back, but how often does the nfl make stat changes from previous weeks like 3 weeks down the road? Once they release them on thursday aren't they final? If not, I can't see them changing stats from like 3 weeks ago very often, if at all.

 

That's like playing fantasy hockey, and after the game they watch replays and change who got the assist/goal(when there is a tip in). It happens all the time. You don't go by the original call.

 

If you start to choose to apply some stats and not others, it could get real messy.

[Grits and Shins]

I don't get why there has to be a rule in place, stats are stats, if the nfl says they are official why should you not apply them?

 

Any time the NFL changes a stat? Even if it is 2 or 3 weeks later? See my scenario earlier. It also has impact to waiver wire order. A team may get a big free agent based on the original waiver wire order that he would not have gotten. That is impactful to your league. And it isn't realistic to wait to run league waivers until after Elias makes the stats official.