SNOWBOUND33 Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Back on topic - many, many years ago I had brought up the fact that he was an adulterer. I knew this from knowledge gained from my wife when she was a Restaurant/Bar Manager at the Schaumburg Marriott. One poster in particular got very upset with the notion. This book takes nothing away from what he accomplished and that he was one of the most complete football players to ever play the game. He worked harder than most to get that way. He took his profession seriously and was a punisher. You only wish that today's RB's could be as durable as he was. This type of book is incomplete. If Connie Payton was not interviewed and a part of the book, the personal life is only half told, and is nothing but a money grab. good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 When I was a kid, Mickey Mantle was my idol... it was an age of innocence. I miss those days of niavete. On some level, I think it's better to allow for heroes, icons and legends to be allowed to live (and die) without always having to expose them as human beings. Anything that grows too tall, too big must inevitably be torn down or ripped apart in today's society. Is the world a btter place because these guys wrote this book? I don't think so. Sometimes truth is better left untold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameltosis Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 dude, he started the stalking for no reason. I have been here for many years. I was backing you up a little but since you are a Browns fan-Move you ass out of Lake Forest. Or apologize. Oh, I see. So I cannot move out of the great state oh Ohio for a better job in Illinois to provide for my family. Point taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Oh, I see. So I cannot move out of the great state oh Ohio for a better job in Illinois to provide for my family. Point taken. Never argue with an idiot. He'll bring you down to his level and then beat you with experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Never argue with an idiot. He'll bring you down to his level and then beat you with experience. And you were busting my balls about originality. What a hypocrite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 And you were busting my balls about originality. What a hypocrite. Aren't you late for middle school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameltosis Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Back on topic - many, many years ago I had brought up the fact that he was an adulterer. I knew this from knowledge gained from my wife when she was a Restaurant/Bar Manager at the Schaumburg Marriott. One poster in particular got very upset with the notion. This book takes nothing away from what he accomplished and that he was one of the most complete football players to ever play the game. He worked harder than most to get that way. He took his profession seriously and was a punisher. You only wish that today's RB's could be as durable as he was. This type of book is incomplete. If Connie Payton was not interviewed and a part of the book, the personal life is only half told, and is nothing but a money grab. Agreed. But according to this article she declined to talk to the author at length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 This is a tough one for me. On one hand, you have a guy who many people idolized that people have always characterized as classy, and a role model, and a symbol for how to carry yourself as a pro athlete. But you also have a guy that supposedly was an adulterer. And to me, THAT guy isn't a hero. He's no better than countless other men who have cheated on their spouses. Who because of his actions embarrassed his wife AND his children. We don't live in a world anymore where stories remain untold. And if you are truly a hero, and classy, and want to leave a legacy as such, you don't do those things to give someone a chance to write about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprofessor Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Jerry Rice was an ass as well, at least in his younger years. He still is. I played in the Tahoe Celebrity Golf Tournament this year and he was the biggest A$$ Clown there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 He still is. I played in the Tahoe Celebrity Golf Tournament this year and he was the biggest A$$ Clown there. Cool. Tahoe=awesome Golf=awesome A$$ clown=awesome one of my favorite phrases. Jerry Rice=not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 This is a tough one for me. On one hand, you have a guy who many people idolized that people have always characterized as classy, and a role model, and a symbol for how to carry yourself as a pro athlete. But you also have a guy that supposedly was an adulterer. And to me, THAT guy isn't a hero. He's no better than countless other men who have cheated on their spouses. Who because of his actions embarrassed his wife AND his children. We don't live in a world anymore where stories remain untold. And if you are truly a hero, and classy, and want to leave a legacy as such, you don't do those things to give someone a chance to write about it. I see your point(s). I know I was crushed when I heard allegations of Payton's steriod use and rumors that it may have caused his kidney problems. I thought he was a God. Dude had a serious grip too. Granted I was only about 11 when I shook his hand but he almost crushed it. There is no privacy for athletes anymore. It amazes me how some get away with the things they do for so long. Like Tiger Woods for example. Did he really think that it would never catch up to him???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Never argue with an idiot. He'll bring you down to his level and then beat you with experience. Hat Trick's sigline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Just heard an interview with the author and I'm changing my tune somewhat. Doesn't seem like a smear book after all. I don't know about the adultery bit and that was not covered. Guy just spoke about what a good man he was and yet that he had flaws. That he was kind and giving until the end. You can certainly interpret this to mean that, despite his demons (and recognizing that those demons could have come from pain killer addiction born from, well, being in pain all the time) that he was still a good guy. Is it really so bad to learn that your hero was not perfect? And yet, still carried himself like a champion? I could live with that. It would be sad to learn, but also think it would be irresponsible to set out to write a book about a guy, learn all this stuff, and then purposefully not include it. I don't know. That was sure the impression I got from the author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) Just heard an interview with the author and I'm changing my tune somewhat. Doesn't seem like a smear book after all. I don't know about the adultery bit and that was not covered. Guy just spoke about what a good man he was and yet that he had flaws. That he was kind and giving until the end. You can certainly interpret this to mean that, despite his demons (and recognizing that those demons could have come from pain killer addiction born from, well, being in pain all the time) that he was still a good guy. Is it really so bad to learn that your hero was not perfect? And yet, still carried himself like a champion? I could live with that. It would be sad to learn, but also think it would be irresponsible to set out to write a book about a guy, learn all this stuff, and then purposefully not include it. I don't know. That was sure the impression I got from the author. I heard part of an interview too. I think that most people would be hard pressed not to accept the money of a book deal if offered. It's not like the things I heard were news to me but maybe that's because I followed him his/my whole life. As far as the adultery goes: That's no shocker either. these players are like rock stars and tempted constantly. Maybe he just didn't want to break up the marriage. A lot of people stay together to "protect" their family. Not saying that is the right thing, but possible. Marriage isn't for eveyone, not even half of us! The best advice Tiger's dad EVER gave him was not to get married, at least not yet. Not a shot at Elin but he was on top of the world. I guess he thought he could have his cake and eat it too. Edited September 30, 2011 by SNOWBOUND33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I heard part of an interview too. I think that most people would be hard pressed not to accept the money of a book deal if offered. It's not like the things I heard were news to me but maybe that's because I followed him his/my whole life. As far as the adultery goes: That's no shocker either. these players are like rock stars and tempted constantly. Maybe he just didn't want to break up the marriage. A lot of people stay together to "protect" their family. Not saying that is the right thing, but possible. Marriage isn't for eveyone, not even half of us! The best advice Tiger's dad EVER gave him was not to get married, at least not yet. Not a shot at Elin but he was on top of the world. I guess he thought he could have his cake and eat it too. Never understood why these guys get married. Jeter hits every A-list piece of ass in NY, and everyone yells, "Go Jetes!". Because he was single, so it's all fair game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 There's an article in SI about this. Link I work near the Mayo Clinic, where Payton found out about his condition. In fact, Walter was in one of our stores during his stay here. The clerk said that he was a very nice man. Walter was a man that had just found out about his health issues and yet he was acting just like the man people see on the camera. I believe that he was wearing the sweater that he bought from us when he had the press conference where he broke down about his condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 The addicted to pain killers thing and even some of the dark maneuverings it can spur one onto I can see, esp then when things were more under the carpet and less was known or cared about regarding them etc. The adultery? Sorry, no, there is no excuse, none whatsoever. Not saying he still wasn't a fine person overall, a real class act etc, but to try spin doctor or excuse that away in any way shape or form is IMO weak and if true IMO puts a noticeable tarnish on him as a person overall. That said, I'd have just as soon not known about it and hate these "dig up the dirt" slugs and/or the media that hypes them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) The addicted to pain killers thing and even some of the dark maneuverings it can spur one onto I can see, esp then when things were more under the carpet and less was known or cared about regarding them etc. The adultery? Sorry, no, there is no excuse, none whatsoever. Not saying he still wasn't a fine person overall, a real class act etc, but to try spin doctor or excuse that away in any way shape or form is IMO weak and if true IMO puts a noticeable tarnish on him as a person overall. That said, I'd have just as soon not known about it and hate these "dig up the dirt" slugs and/or the media that hypes them. Cmon can we please stop trashing the deceased. He wasn't a perfect man by any means, but doesn't deserve this... Also, not saying I would do the same, but let he who has turned down ass coming at him from every direction in every city cast the first stone... Edited September 30, 2011 by delusions of granduer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Back on topic - many, many years ago I had brought up the fact that he was an adulterer. I knew this from knowledge gained from my wife when she was a Restaurant/Bar Manager at the Schaumburg Marriott. One poster in particular got very upset with the notion. I've long since come to the conclusion that the list of pro athletes that DON'T f around is probably a lot shorter than the list of the ones that do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I've long since come to the conclusion that the list of pro athletes that DON'T f around is probably a lot shorter than the list of the ones that do. I think you have to have many baby mommas just to play in the NBA, don't you? Seriously bro - you are spot on here. I wasn't bringing it up to smear the guy. If someone is going to idolize someone, it's not about the athlete, it's about the person. If my son ends up idolizing some athlete, I'd like my son to look up to the person, not the persona. It was very sad when Walter Payton passed away. I would think he had many demons like most of us non perfect people do. He's still the most complete football player I've had a chance to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Seriously bro - you are spot on here. I wasn't bringing it up to smear the guy. If someone is going to idolize someone, it's not about the athlete, it's about the person. If my son ends up idolizing some athlete, I'd like my son to look up to the person, not the persona. It was very sad when Walter Payton passed away. I would think he had many demons like most of us non perfect people do. He's still the most complete football player I've had a chance to see. It's a little saddening, because it appeared Payton was, generally, a pretty good guy. I'm not sure what's in the book, but I guess I sort of think of it along the lines of: - adultery - HE WAS A SUPERSTAR PRO ATHLETE. Translation - he was getting poon thrown at him on probably a several-times-daily basis, plus he had the opportunity (away games) and means ($$$) to indulge. I mean, c'mon....it's one thing for schlubs around here to say "well, I'd NEVER!" but when the hottest woman in the room propositions you on an everyday basis, I think it's pretty hard not to cave. It's disappointing, since Payton was always portrayed as a high-character guy, but unfortunately not particularly surprising - suicidal thoughts - doesn't make me think more or less of the man - drug abuse - doesn't make me think more or less of the man - steroids - can't give him a pass on this As far as "idolizing an athlete" - I think when it comes down to it, if you're looking at athletes, actors, or musicians as role models....well, time to find better role models. Probably a 50/50 chance you'll end up disappointed, bitterly so, in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I was the guy gil refers to - big surprise - and my issue with this hasn't changed. It's a simple fact no one knows what kind of marriage he had with Connie. It was the 70's. Athletes get women thrown at them all the time. It's impossible for most everyone to relate to, but when you run in that community there are in fact some marriages where that is allowed but cannot be brought home. As in, "you can f*ck her, but you better not love her." And the simple fact is no one knows. If it was as bad as bad can be and they had no agreement, then it really isn't fair to his widow to be put into answering questions that can produce shameful answer: why did you stay with him if you knew he was cheating on you? Not to sell a book. I'd be willing to bet it was in fact NOT like that - adultery - , but rather on the more open side given the time period and his superstar circumstances. The doubly frustrating thing about this is he would barely be 50 but his death robbed him of a proper rebuttal or response. So, the whole personal life issue really isn't germane other than to cash out. This isn't Nixon we're talking about here or some guy who's been dead for generations. His son just turned 30 and is now being saddled with questions about his parents relationship. He doesn't have 5 half brothers or sisters as if this was Shawn Kemp. He has none that anyone knows of. Finding one? Sure, that's a story but that isn't what's happening here. It's exploitation and judgment from those who have no place, pure and simple. The medicine thing is another story, and sadly doesn't surprise me. Butkus sued the Bears when Payton was starting for medical malpractice. He died of a super rare form of bile duct cancer. It's not hard to put two and two together when the 'only missed 1 game' stat gets tossed around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprofessor Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I was the guy gil refers to - big surprise - and my issue with this hasn't changed. It's a simple fact no one knows what kind of marriage he had with Connie. It was the 70's. Athletes get women thrown at them all the time. It's impossible for most everyone to relate to, but when you run in that community there are in fact some marriages where that is allowed but cannot be brought home. As in, "you can f*ck her, but you better not love her." And the simple fact is no one knows. If it was as bad as bad can be and they had no agreement, then it really isn't fair to his widow to be put into answering questions that can produce shameful answer: why did you stay with him if you knew he was cheating on you? Not to sell a book. I'd be willing to bet it was in fact NOT like that - adultery - , but rather on the more open side given the time period and his superstar circumstances. The doubly frustrating thing about this is he would barely be 50 but his death robbed him of a proper rebuttal or response. So, the whole personal life issue really isn't germane other than to cash out. This isn't Nixon we're talking about here or some guy who's been dead for generations. His son just turned 30 and is now being saddled with questions about his parents relationship. He doesn't have 5 half brothers or sisters as if this was Shawn Kemp. He has none that anyone knows of. Finding one? Sure, that's a story but that isn't what's happening here. It's exploitation and judgment from those who have no place, pure and simple. The medicine thing is another story, and sadly doesn't surprise me. Butkus sued the Bears when Payton was starting for medical malpractice. He died of a super rare form of bile duct cancer. It's not hard to put two and two together when the 'only missed 1 game' stat gets tossed around. Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I have friends who started Steroid use in H.S, One won Mr. (state) years later( I don't know how they don't test) But I am worried I will get bad news about him as we age. I said it before, I think that steroid use MAY have played a part in Walter's death. It doesn't matter though. If he had to do it over he probably wouldn't have done it. IF he did. I am scared for some of my friends kids who are "bulking up, kickin' a$$" in H.S. i hope parents are watching their kids. I'd rather see em smoke pot or even do some beer pong than think if they do roids they will go pro, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I was the guy gil refers to - big surprise - and my issue with this hasn't changed. It's a simple fact no one knows what kind of marriage he had with Connie. It was the 70's. Athletes get women thrown at them all the time. It's impossible for most everyone to relate to, but when you run in that community there are in fact some marriages where that is allowed but cannot be brought home. As in, "you can f*ck her, but you better not love her." And the simple fact is no one knows. If it was as bad as bad can be and they had no agreement, then it really isn't fair to his widow to be put into answering questions that can produce shameful answer: why did you stay with him if you knew he was cheating on you? Not to sell a book. I'd be willing to bet it was in fact NOT like that - adultery - , but rather on the more open side given the time period and his superstar circumstances. The doubly frustrating thing about this is he would barely be 50 but his death robbed him of a proper rebuttal or response. So, the whole personal life issue really isn't germane other than to cash out. This isn't Nixon we're talking about here or some guy who's been dead for generations. His son just turned 30 and is now being saddled with questions about his parents relationship. He doesn't have 5 half brothers or sisters as if this was Shawn Kemp. He has none that anyone knows of. Finding one? Sure, that's a story but that isn't what's happening here. It's exploitation and judgment from those who have no place, pure and simple. The medicine thing is another story, and sadly doesn't surprise me. Butkus sued the Bears when Payton was starting for medical malpractice. He died of a super rare form of bile duct cancer. It's not hard to put two and two together when the 'only missed 1 game' stat gets tossed around. Great post. It's sad that you guys are giving Payton a free pass on the adultery stuff. There is never a justification for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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