League Dispute Question

[SecondString]

I'm interested in hearing what most people feel about this. Here's the situation:

 

Two teams, we'll call them "Team A" and "Team B" were tied in their weekly head-to-head matchup after all games completed yesterday. "Team A" had chosen to post a blank on his roster going into the week, rather than drop a good player on a bye week to waivers (he had three players with byes, and we only have two bench spots in our league). The tie-breaker is bench points, and "Team B" was winning the tie-breaker, since "Team A" had three byes on the bench. Therefore, the owner of "Team A" decided to go ahead and drop one of his benched players (Daniel Thomas) and pick up Titus Young (playing Monday night), since it only took one point to give him the win, and "Team B' had no players left (all spots had already played).

 

Overnight, there was an adjustment in the scoring. "Team B" had a 6-point deduction. Therefore, "Team A' already had the win in hand and had unnecessarily made the roster move.

 

The owner of "Team A" appealed to the LM to reverse the roster move, since he would never had made the move in the first place if the league administrator (ESPN) had not posted the error.

 

The LM denied the request.

 

What is fair here?

Edited October 10, 2011 by SecondString

[Thews40]

I'm interested in hearing what most people feel about this. Here's the situation:

 

Two teams, we'll call them "Team A" and "Team B" were tied in their weekly head-to-head matchup after all games completed yesterday. "Team A" had chosen to post a blank on his roster going into the week, rather than drop a good player on a bye week to waivers (he had three players with byes, and we only have two bench spots in our league). The tie-breaker is bench points, and "Team B" was winning the tie-breaker, since "Team A" had three byes on the bench. Therefore, the owner of "Team A" decided to go ahead and drop one of his benched players (Daniel Thomas) and pick up Titus Young, since it only took one point to give him the win, and "Team B' had no players left (all spots had already played).

 

Overnight, there was an adjustment in the scoring. "Team B" had a 6-point deduction. Therefore, "Team A' already had the win in hand and had unnecessarily made the roster move.

 

The owner of "Team A" appealed to the LM to reverse the roster move, since he would never had made the move in the first place if the league administrator had not posted the error.

 

The LM denied the request.

 

What is fair here?

Team A should stop

Edited October 10, 2011 by Thews40

[lennykravitz2004]

As us Pollacks like to say... toughski schitzkie. He'd be ridden mercilously in our league for even asking.

[SecondString]

Team A should stop

So you think it should stand? I'd be interested to know why? Hey, it's not me, but it is a friend of mine. As a third party owner in the league, I'm kind of happy to see Thomas go to the waiver wire. But in his shoes, I might feel a bit slighted, and can understand that he would feel he should have Thomas back. The only thing that maybe he did wrong was to not wait until today to make the move, in case there were adjustments, but his claim is that he should be able to trust the numbers posted on the league site.

Edited October 10, 2011 by SecondString

[slambo]

So sad, to bad. The commish should definitely NOT reverse the move.

[Razorback]

I assume the league allows movement on players after the games have started? I know in my league once the games start we are not allowed to make any moves until after Monday nights game.

[SecondString]

I assume the league allows movement on players after the games have started? I know in my league once the games start we are not allowed to make any moves until after Monday nights game.

Roster spots lock for each player on the roster for games that have begun. Therefore those on a bye this week and those playing Monday night will remain unlocked until kickoff tonight.

[delfamdelfam]

can't reverse the roster move. Team A should have waited till today to do the roster move, for doing it so early that's his fault.

[delusions of grandeur]

1) As commish, I don't think I would have allowed him to add the new player's totals into the tiebreaker in the first place. MNF is there to have more football games in the week, not for you to gain some advantage because you happen to have room for someone playing then to put on your bench for a tie-breaker, while the other guy isn't afforded the same luxury. The tie-breaker should be based on the players on the bench at the time the games for the week started.

 

2) Since no action was taken about matter A, and he was completely willing to take advantage of the rule because he could and the other guy couldn't (I mean what a dumbass to have his whole team playing on Sunday, right?), then he reaps the consequences when the action blows up in his face.

 

I don't even really understand how you could expect a commish worth his salt to rule differently...I wouldn't have started Ryan last night if I'd known he was going to lay a total egg, so should I get that move reversed since my hindsight was not 20/20? I mean, it really looked like it was gonna be a shoot-out, so I clearly got hosed. How's this different?

Edited October 10, 2011 by delusions of granduer

[buddahj]

Team A should stop

this

[Jackass]

i see A's argument, but i'd also side with Team A being out of luck. he could've waited to see if there were adjustments. that was his choice not to.

[boltnlava]

I have to agree with those above. There is no way this roster move should be undone. It is what it is.

[SecondString]

1) As commish, I don't think I would have allowed him to add the new player's totals into the tiebreaker in the first place. MNF is there to have more football games in the week, not for you to gain some advantage because you happen to have room for someone playing then to put on your bench for a tie-breaker, while the other guy isn't afforded the same luxury. The tie-breaker should be based on the players on the bench at the time the games for the week started.

 

2) Since no action was taken about matter A, and he was completely willing to take advantage of the rule because he could and the other guy couldn't (I mean what a dumbass to have his whole team playing on Sunday, right?), then he reaps the consequences when the action blows up in his face.

 

I don't even really understand how you could expect a commish worth his salt to rule differently...I wouldn't have started Ryan last night if I'd known he was going to lay a total egg, so should I get that move reversed since my hindsight was not 20/20? I mean, it really looked like it was gonna be a shoot-out, so I clearly got hosed. How's this different?

Okay, I appreciate you responding, and understand that you think it should stand. But independent of what you feel about that particular issue, some of the things you've said here make no freakin sense at all:

"As commish, I don't think I would have allowed him to add the new player's totals into the tiebreaker in the first place"

League rules, not the whims of a commish, determine when/how you can add players. Roster spots lock for all players once that player's game begins. Thousands of Fantasy leagues are set up this way. Up until then, owners are free to post as they wish. This comes into play a lot with injury, and can be used as strategy.

 

"I mean what a dumbass to have his whole team playing on Sunday, right?"

Who said he had any players playing on Sunday night? And even if he had...let me ask you, when you're drafting your team, at what point do you pass on a player because he may be playing on Sunday night in week 5, and you already have two other players playing on Sunday night in week 5? Good planning!

 

"I wouldn't have started Ryan last night if I'd known he was going to lay a total egg, so should I get that move reversed since my hindsight was not 20/20? I mean, it really looked like it was gonna be a shoot-out, so I clearly got hosed. How's this different?"

 

I'll let you figure this one out on your own...shouldn't take long.

Edited October 10, 2011 by SecondString

[electricrelish]

1) As commish, I don't think I would have allowed him to add the new player's totals into the tiebreaker in the first place. MNF is there to have more football games in the week, not for you to gain some advantage because you happen to have room for someone playing then to put on your bench for a tie-breaker, while the other guy isn't afforded the same luxury. The tie-breaker should be based on the players on the bench at the time the games for the week started.

 

2) Since no action was taken about matter A, and he was completely willing to take advantage of the rule because he could and the other guy couldn't (I mean what a dumbass to have his whole team playing on Sunday, right?), then he reaps the consequences when the action blows up in his face.

 

I don't even really understand how you could expect a commish worth his salt to rule differently...I wouldn't have started Ryan last night if I'd known he was going to lay a total egg, so should I get that move reversed since my hindsight was not 20/20? I mean, it really looked like it was gonna be a shoot-out, so I clearly got hosed. How's this different?

 

As long as a player's game has not started, there's nothing wrong with making an adjustment to your bench, especially if it will win a game for you. You stated, "The tie-breaker should be based on the players on the bench at the time the games for the week started." OK, that's exactly what the owner did. Daniel Thomas' game never started because he never had one in Week 5, thus the team owner made what he thought was a savvy move. Nothing wrong with that at all. I'm glad that I'm not in a league where you are the commissioner.

 

Why was the score wrong in the first place? What system do you use? Is this a known problem? If so, then hell yeah, he should have waited before making his move. If there was every reason to believe the system was correct, then the owner was provided false information by the league's fantasy system itself, which influenced how he played the game. If there was no reason to suspect that adjustments would be made, then I think he has a valid argument; however, if it was known that they system makes these types of corrections (i.e. precedence), then the move should not be reversed. Perhaps, your league should move to a more reliable system that doesn't make stat corrections until Thursday.

 

Whatever your league's decision, a rule should be written in your constitution in case this matter ever comes up again.

Edited October 10, 2011 by electricrelish

[electricrelish]

Okay, I appreciate you responding, and understand that you think it should stand. But independent of what you feel about that particular issue, some of the things you've said here make no freakin sense at all:

"As commish, I don't think I would have allowed him to add the new player's totals into the tiebreaker in the first place"

League rules, not the whims of a commish, determine when/how you can add players. Roster spots lock for all players once that player's game begins. Thousands of Fantasy leagues are set up this way. Up until then, owners are free to post as they wish. This comes into play a lot with injury, and can be used as strategy.

 

"I mean what a dumbass to have his whole team playing on Sunday, right?"

Who said he had any players playing on Sunday night? And even if he had...let me ask you, when you're drafting your team, at what point do you pass on a player because he may be playing on Sunday night in week %, and you already have two other players playing on Sunday night in week 5? Good planning!

 

"I wouldn't have started Ryan last night if I'd known he was going to lay a total egg, so should I get that move reversed since my hindsight was not 20/20? I mean, it really looked like it was gonna be a shoot-out, so I clearly got hosed. How's this different?"

 

I'll let you figure this one out on your own...shouldn't take long.

Totally agree. DoG must be drinking and posting again. Just don't get him started rapping when he's drunk.

[delusions of grandeur]

I'll let you figure this one out on your own...shouldn't take long.

Or I'll just make sure to not give my opinion on your league matters next time.

 

Perhaps I should have said I'd be tempted to not allow the guy to count points from a pickup for the MNF game because It's by pure luck, and you're not picking up a player you want to stash or intend to start at any point in time.. But again, that's just my opinion, and I wouldn't force that ruling on my league unless they agreed (which they might if they can plainly see that people are picking up bench players that they have no interest in playing, to get a win with a player that again, they have no intention of playing, just because they had a MNF spot open). I don't think it's in the spirit of the game to pick up players for that reason.

 

But fine, my point was really #2, where yes, I was being sarcastic, but stand by my opinion that if you're going to make a move like that, then you live with the consequences. Fantasy scoring changes can happen throughout the week, but it's a part of the game that you live and die by those changes, and not get a redo. That much I'm certain of.

 

So don't be so damn abrasive and take people's opinions so seriously. I'm done responding if you don't care for differing opinions.

[SecondString]

Relish: "Why was the score wrong in the first place? What system do you use? Is this a known problem? If so, then hell yeah, he should have waited before making his move. If there was every reason to believe the system was correct, then the owner was provided false information by the league's fantasy system itself, which influenced how he played the game. If there was no reason to suspect that adjustments would be made, then I think he has a valid argument; however, if it was known that they system makes these types of corrections (i.e. precedence), then the move should not be reversed. Perhaps, your league should move to a more reliable system that doesn't make stat corrections until Thursday.

 

Whatever your league's decision, a rule should be written in your constitution in case this matter ever comes up again."

 

 

Good comments relish. To answer your question, it is an ESPN league, they post all of the numbers. This is his second year in the league. We have had rare occasions where adjustments are made to scores. He says that he had never had it happen to any of his games and that he didn't even think of it at all until the adjustment was made. He is cool about it, taking ownership and moving on. I just thought I would pose the question here to see what people thought. In the end, I think I too agree that you can't reverse it, but it's a tough pill to swallow for him, I'm sure. Rather than a written provision, we will probably just make all of the owners aware of what happened, so they will BEWARE!

 

Thanks for the comments.

Edited October 11, 2011 by SecondString

[SecondString]

Or I'll just make sure to not give my opinion on your league matters next time.

 

Perhaps I should have said I'd be tempted to not allow the guy to count points from a pickup for the MNF game because It's by pure luck, and you're not picking up a player you want to stash or intend to start at any point in time.. But again, that's just my opinion, and I wouldn't force that ruling on my league unless they agreed (which they might if they can plainly see that people are picking up bench players that they have no interest in playing, to get a win with a player that again, they have no intention of playing, just because they had a MNF spot open). I don't think it's in the spirit of the game to pick up players for that reason.

 

But fine, my point was really #2, where yes, I was being sarcastic, but stand by my opinion that if you're going to make a move like that, then you live with the consequences. Fantasy scoring changes can happen throughout the week, but it's a part of the game that you live and die by those changes, and not get a redo. That much I'm certain of.

 

So don't be so damn abrasive and take people's opinions so seriously. I'm done responding if you don't care for differing opinions.

No worries...like I said, I do appreciate you chiming in.

[STL Fan]

As us Pollacks like to say... toughski schitzkie. He'd be ridden mercilously in our league for even asking.

 

Wait, Lenny Kravitz in Polish?

[Chief]

Team A made his move , live with it.

[delusions of grandeur]

Totally agree. DoG must be drinking and posting again. Just don't get him started rapping when he's drunk.

Na, I'm not drinking right now. It makes it too hard to post at the same time... And plus I already drank a bunch earlier.

 

And sorry bro, I got out of the battle rap game when I decided to live the spiritual life praising the FF gods

[flemingd]

Roster spots lock for each player on the roster for games that have begun. Therefore those on a bye this week and those playing Monday night will remain unlocked until kickoff tonight.

Then why can't he just undo it himself?

 

I wouldn't screw the guy over this - he made a legal, good faith move based on bad information. It stands to reason he's not a moron and wouldn't have done it in the absence of bad system info. As long as he's not playing fast and loose with league rules I see no reason to make him keep this transaction.

[STL Fan]

Then why can't he just undo it himself?

 

I wouldn't screw the guy over this - he made a legal, good faith move based on bad information. It stands to reason he's not a moron and wouldn't have done it in the absence of bad system info. As long as he's not playing fast and loose with league rules I see no reason to make him keep this transaction.

 

+1

[SecondString]

Then why can't he just undo it himself?

 

I wouldn't screw the guy over this - he made a legal, good faith move based on bad information. It stands to reason he's not a moron and wouldn't have done it in the absence of bad system info. As long as he's not playing fast and loose with league rules I see no reason to make him keep this transaction.

Once a player is dropped and hits the waiver wire, he's locked there through the next waiver period, in this case Wednesday morning.

 

Your opinion is exactly how I felt about it, but I knew I might be biased since it's a good friend of mine. That's why I posted it here. Apparently, you and I are the only ones who feel that way, lol. Like I said, he's cool with it, is manning up and moving on, but it's a pretty bad break, i believe.

[lennykravitz2004]

Wait, Lenny Kravitz in Polish?

 

Part of a small tribe in the northeast region of Krzyzyzyzywbedubanski. Pretty obscure place, but it's my roots.

 

How is this different from getting info that Highhtower is starting, yet I get Shanahan'd by Torain? "All reports said HTWR was the starter..." Is this "bad info" too?