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Torain or Helu?


georgedp
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All that I read is that OC Kyle Skelletor Jr. won't announce a starting RB, and honestly, against the Bills I doubt they will be able to run the ball much anyway. Meaning they will be in catch up mode early, at least that is my best guess. Don't get me wrong, the Bills can be run on, I just don't think the Skins will have the ability to do so.

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A PHENOMENAL point about Torain vs Helu is made in the latest JUMbotron:

 

"Redskins RB carries/targets after Tim Hightower went down in the 3rd quarter last week: Roy Helu 0 carries/2 targets, Ryan Torain 1 carry/0 targets. So it sounds like Helu really didn’t make an impact, right? Hold on, Helu was on the field for all 25 Redskins snaps after Hightower went down. Torain only got on the field twice. “Wait John, the Skins were behind and Torain doesn’t fit the pass-heavy packages.” No, the Redskins were only down 16-13 a couple minutes after Hightower left. Helu was out there because Mike Shanahan likes Helu now. "

 

25 snaps for Helu vs only 2 for Torain. Of course that stat might not mean anything at all knowing Shanahan, but I think it's definitely worth noting who got more playing time.

 

As an aside, I'm benching Torain for Pierre Thomas this week.

Edited by OCSkins
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I'm starting Helu in my big money league. Not that I think he's for sure the guy but from what limited amount I've seen him play, he looks like he could be a stud in this offense. I'm crossing my fingers with him.

 

Just curious... Who are you starting Helu over? That's a pretty big leap of faith.

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A PHENOMENAL point about Torain vs Helu is made in the latest JUMbotron:

 

"Redskins RB carries/targets after Tim Hightower went down in the 3rd quarter last week: Roy Helu 0 carries/2 targets, Ryan Torain 1 carry/0 targets. So it sounds like Helu really didn’t make an impact, right? Hold on, Helu was on the field for all 25 Redskins snaps after Hightower went down. Torain only got on the field twice. “Wait John, the Skins were behind and Torain doesn’t fit the pass-heavy packages.” No, the Redskins were only down 16-13 a couple minutes after Hightower left. Helu was out there because Mike Shanahan likes Helu now. "

 

25 snaps for Helu vs only 2 for Torain. Of course that stat might not mean anything at all knowing Shanahan, but I think it's definitely worth noting who got more playing time.

 

As an aside, I'm benching Torain for Pierre Thomas this week.

 

To further emphasize the uncertainty of Shanahan's coaching, I checked three different site rankings and they all rank Torain higher than Helu despite the disparity in snaps last week. And despite the refusal to name a starting RB. Might as well flip a coin, folks.

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To further emphasize the uncertainty of Shanahan's coaching, I checked three different site rankings and they all rank Torain higher than Helu despite the disparity in snaps last week. And despite the refusal to name a starting RB. Might as well flip a coin, folks.

 

Exactly...last week it was Torain projected high and nada for Hightower...case in point.

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I agree with the last few posts----I don't see how anyone can throw Torain OR Helu into their lineup this week unless it's out of complete desperation. And even if it's just for a flex spot, I'd still probably consider Jabar Gaffney a "safer" start.

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I agree with the last few posts----I don't see how anyone can throw Torain OR Helu into their lineup this week unless it's out of complete desperation. And even if it's just for a flex spot, I'd still probably consider Jabar Gaffney a "safer" start.

 

 

How about Breaston??

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:wacko: That is a fantasy advice question ... you should always start the players you think will score the most points ... although it is less of an issue for you as I'm sure you can get a do-over

 

The most points?? Never thought of it that way, thanks. That will certainly help me in the future with all of my decision making. And you're right, the do-over is always a nice safety net.

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Helu:

Week.....Snaps played.....run......pass....run block......pass block

1.....................3(66)............1..............2.............

.0....................0

2....................27(85)..........10.........13................1.

..................3

3...................26(63)............5...........18...............0

...................3

4...................12(72)............8.............3...............

0...................1

6...................27(60)............2............24...............

1.................0

7...................34(69)...........1.............23...............

.1................9

 

Here is what I see....

1st I think we can throw out week 1 since it doesn't show anything and the rook was probably just not ready in the staffs eyes.

2nd Toss out week 4...it is the one off to how the other games look for Helu....not saying that you can just dismiss a game but with how strong the trend is in the other 4 games versus week 4 I think it is safe to exclude it for this exercise.

3rd look at the snaps played in weeks 2,3,6 & 7 all are very similar...the number in parentheses is total offensive snaps...

4th His RUSHING snaps played don't look to be increasing.

 

OK, now to make heads and tails of the fact that Helu played 34 of 69 snaps last week, while Torain only played in 4 of 69....what I see is that the coaching staff looks like they abandoned the run and they needed to have extra protection for Beck, as can be seen by the 9 pass blocking snaps that Helu played in.

 

Hightower played in 31 snaps before he went down with injury.at 10:54 of the 3rd quarter.

After that the Skins ran 25 plays....here is the breakdown of those plays(only two were running plays, and they happend on the 2nd and 4th play after Hightower went down...one was a run by Torain and the other the scramble for TD by Beck)...Look at the down and distances...not many "running downs"....on top of that the score was 16-6 when Hightower went down...then that series the Skins did score but Carolina came right back with a TD and went up 23-13 with 5:57 left in the 3rd quarter...skins next series they went 3 and out, all passes....next series, the first of the 4th quarter carolina scores and pushes the lead to 30-13...when the skins get the ball back there is 8:13 left to play in the game and they are down 17 points...they abandoned the run and used Helu in the passing game...just as they had in games 2,3 & 6. Torain didn't not touch the ball because Shanny didn't trust him or because he liked Helu better....Torain didn't touch the ball because of how the game played out....after looking at this more in depth I think that Torain is a better play than many might realize...the only major concern I have is that the Bills could get up big early and that would kill Torain and hence mean more time for Helu.

 

2-6-CAR32 (10:27) J.Beck pass short middle to L.Paulsen to CAR 8 for 24 yards (J.Anderson; J.Phillips).

1-8-CAR8 (9:47) R.Torain left end to CAR 15 for -7 yards (J.Anderson, D.Connor).

2-15-CAR15 (9:03) J.Beck pass short left to F.Davis to CAR 4 for 11 yards (C.Munnerlyn).

3-4-CAR4 (8:20) J.Beck scrambles left end for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

 

1-10-WAS20 (2:17) J.Beck pass incomplete short right to A.Armstrong.

2-10-WAS20 (2:12) J.Beck pass incomplete short right to F.Davis.

3-10-WAS20 (2:07) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass short left to T.Austin to WAS 28 for 8 yards (S.Martin).

4-2-WAS28 (1:46) S.Rocca punts

 

1-10-WAS20 (8:13) J.Beck pass incomplete short left to T.Austin (G.Hardy).

2-10-WAS20 (8:08) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass short middle to N.Paul to WAS 34 for 14 yards (D.Butler).

1-10-WAS34 (7:37) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass short left to J.Gaffney to WAS 49 for 15 yards (J.Anderson).

1-10-WAS49 (7:08) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass short right to F.Davis to CAR 34 for 17 yards (C.Godfrey).

1-10-CAR34 (6:35) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass short right to F.Davis to CAR 20 for 14 yards (T.Williams).

1-10-CAR20 (6:07) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass incomplete short left to T.Austin (C.Munnerlyn).

2-10-CAR20 (6:03) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass incomplete short right to A.Armstrong.

3-10-CAR20 (5:58) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass short left to N.Paul to CAR 9 for 11 yards (D.Butler). Carolina challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #2.)

1-9-CAR9 (5:52) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass short left to R.Helu to CAR 7 for 2 yards (T.Williams).

2-7-CAR7 (5:12) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass short middle to F.Davis for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN. The Replay Assistant challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld.

 

1-10-WAS12 (3:51) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass short middle to T.Austin to WAS 24 for 12 yards (A.Applewhite; J.Anderson).

1-10-WAS24 (3:29) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Beck pass incomplete short right to A.Armstrong (C.Gamble).

2-10-WAS24

(3:26) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass incomplete short left to A.Armstrong. PENALTY on WAS-S.Locklear, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at WAS 24 - No Play.

2-20-WAS14

(3:26) (Shotgun) PENALTY on CAR-C.Johnson, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at WAS 14 - No Play.

2-15-WAS19 (3:21) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass deep right intended for L.Hankerson INTERCEPTED by C.Gamble at WAS 44. C.Gamble to WAS 25 for 19 yards (T.Austin).

 

1-10-WAS20 (1:56) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass short left to F.Davis to WAS 29 for 9 yards (J.Anderson). Penalty on CAR-C.Johnson, Defensive Offside, declined.

2-1-WAS29 (1:50) (Shotgun) J.Beck pass incomplete short right to J.Gaffney.

3-1-WAS29 (1:46) (Shotgun) J.Beck sacked at WAS 25 for -4 yards (C.Johnson).

4-5-WAS25 (1:19) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Beck pass short middle to R.Helu to WAS 29 for 4 yards (A.Applewhite).

Edited by keggerz
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sorry if that is all a bit jumbled and rambling...but I did say I was going to spitball...so I was writing as I was breaking it down.

 

Hope it helped.

 

Actually helps a lot...not what I wanted to hear, but it helps. You are on to something here. Thanks for jumping in and sharing the info. I get that he wants Helu in to pass block. The only freakin thing I can't figure out in all of this is why in the hell Shanny won't give Helu more opportunities to carry the damn ball? Everything I've read & heard says that he is potentially way more explosive that either Torain or Hightower.

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Actually helps a lot...not what I wanted to hear, but it helps. You are on to something here. Thanks for jumping in and sharing the info. I get that he wants Helu in to pass block. The only freakin thing I can't figure out in all of this is why in the hell Shanny won't give Helu more opportunities to carry the damn ball? Everything I've read & heard says that he is potentially way more explosive that either Torain or Hightower.

I was honestly shocked to see how his carries have gone...there are times when I will dig in expecting one outcome but the numbers show something else...this was kinda one of those times.

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A PHENOMENAL point about Torain vs Helu is made in the latest JUMbotron:

 

"Redskins RB carries/targets after Tim Hightower went down in the 3rd quarter last week: Roy Helu 0 carries/2 targets, Ryan Torain 1 carry/0 targets. So it sounds like Helu really didn’t make an impact, right? Hold on, Helu was on the field for all 25 Redskins snaps after Hightower went down. Torain only got on the field twice. “Wait John, the Skins were behind and Torain doesn’t fit the pass-heavy packages.” No, the Redskins were only down 16-13 a couple minutes after Hightower left. Helu was out there because Mike Shanahan likes Helu now. "

 

25 snaps for Helu vs only 2 for Torain. Of course that stat might not mean anything at all knowing Shanahan, but I think it's definitely worth noting who got more playing time.

 

As an aside, I'm benching Torain for Pierre Thomas this week.

I think the above is entirely misleading, regardless of what the score was at the time Hightower went down.

 

If one were to check the actual play-by-play of the game, you'd note that Torain got 1 of his 2 carries on the 2nd play after the injury, then Beck threw to Davis to get inside the 5, then on a broken play ran it in for a TD of his own. So that was only 3 plays. The Panthers scored on their very next possession, eating up 6 minutes of clock, to go up 23-13 with 2:17 to go in the 3rd.

 

The Redskins next possession was a 3-and-out, with 3 consecutive passes by Beck. Carolina then rattled off an 8 1/2 minute drive, capped by ANOTHER SCORE, to make it 30-13 with 8 minutes to play.

 

The Redskins got the ball back, and Beck threw TEN CONSECUTIVE PASSES, ending in a TD to Davis, making the score 30-20 with 5 minutes to go. Nothing doing on the Panthers drive, Skins get the ball back with 3:50 to go, and Beck throws FOUR more consecutive passes, ending with a pick. Mare kicks a FG, the Skins are down 33-20 with under 1:30 to play, and naturally Beck throws FOUR more consecutive passes.

 

To summarize, the LAST 18 PLAYS by the Redskins were all passes. They didn't even try to run the ball since 9:47 to go in the 3rd period. Only ONE of those 18 plays was a pass targeted at Helu.

 

They were in serious have-to-pass catch-up mode for almost the entire 2nd half, I don't care that Helu played more snaps. All that tells me is that Helu is more trusted as a blocker.

 

I like JUM and his columns, but like I said, this is 100% misleading info to support a point. Take it for what it's worth.

 

edit: oh shoot, sorry, didn't realize keggerz made the exact same point above (hadn't finished the thread before I wrote my post).

Edited by markgugs
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Stop the madness! I I feel like Clarice trying to match wits with Dr. Lector. Like so many I was eviscerated by Dr. Shanny with his use of Torain last week. I have (had) both Torain and Helu. Just packaged them in a trade for Nicks.

 

Together they may be a whole pack of Matches but I'll let some other owner figure out which to Light.

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