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will broncos go back to orton?


moopyjiggles
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how bad was it

 

 

He needed his 5 or 6 completions for 70 or so yards out of his 6 or 7 throws during garbage time, against Detroit's 2nd stringers just to pad his stats to the point that they were only extremely unacceptable. It helped, of course, that Detroit D.B.'s dropped at least two of his passes that hit them right in the hands or it would have been much worse.

 

At this point the Broncos are all in with Tebow through at least week 12. Going back to Orton would be the type of vacilating that costs even 1st year coaches their jobs. No Tebow has several more starts, easy. After those starts, if their is a change it will be to Brady. Orton is an emergency Q.B. at this point.

 

BTW, I thought Brady had showed some noticable improvement from his past during this last preseason.

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Heard some radio speculation that this was Elway's call to throw Tebow to the wolves in order to validate that he is not an NFL QB, so they can justify taking another QB next year.

It would have been the height of idiocy not to do so at some point this season. Question answered, now they can go back to Orton and shop for a QB in the draft.

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Why? So Orton can keep failing in clutch situations? DEN already knows he has that nailed.

 

At the risk of being called a Tebow sack-swinger, which I have been labeled by some even though I have stated clearly that Tebow's performances have sucked so far this year, DEN needs to listen to what John Lynch was preaching while announcing all game yesterday. They need to give Tebow plays that he can run successfully.

 

Where were the screeens and 5 yd hot routes when DET was bringing 5 to 7 guys after the first series? No slants, no waggles, no hooks or ins. Despite DET regularly sending more than the O-line could handle - and the O-line struggles with regular pressure (I have no clue why rookie Orlando Franklin is playing RT - Tebow's blindside - because he simply can not move his feet to even get his hands on opposing DEs, much less protect Tebow). Yet OC McCoy is still calling for routes by recivers to be run 20 yds+ downfield.

 

Tebow looked shell shocked in the 2nd half yesterday. He made some really bad throws, but he made some good throws too. That deep pass to Royal, who forgot to drag his back foot, would have been a sweet TD. Some of his better passes went right through the hands of D Thomas, Royal, and J Thomas.

 

Lynch was right on target with his assessment, which he called for all game long. Give Tebow some plays that he can be successful at, and that the O-line can keep the D off of him, work on his fundamentals like footwork, timing, etc, and see if he can play. But if DEN is simply going to continue with running almost exclusively pass routes that take 4 to 5 seconds to develop, Tebow is not only going to be miserable - which he was again yesterday - but he's going to get hurt badly.

 

If the DEN braintrust simply can't comprehend that and instead throw Tebow to the wolves, they may as well send him packing for a 7th round draft pick and start Orton or Quinn and let them continue to lose. What they are doing on O benefits no one, the O can't pull it off, and it does nothing to see if Tebow actually has the goods - which he very well may not.

 

It's almost as though the coaches are actively setting Tebow up.

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I remember this was one game.

 

I note that some of what John Lynch was advocating does not occure easily out of the spread. The Broncos are transitioning in season. There were bound to be difficult times.

 

I have been on the side of the fence that Tebow will likely fail. That said, he may yet succeed. This was one game. I am willing to see another half dozen games before even thinking about reachig conclusions on the evidence of him put up as a pro. Right now all I have is his college resume` and a scant few pro efforts. The minimal evidence has me with a negative impression, but I wait on more a more definitive body of work.

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BB is right. There are hardly any QBs that would have been successful with the playcalling the Broncos made the last two games. It wouldn't surprise me if they were setting Tebow up for failure to validate the need to pick a QB next year and to appease the fan base who was calling for him to start all along. This move shuts up the fans and sets the team up to draft QB.

 

This whole experience with Denver the last few years makes me think of how you can be on a diet for a long time and keep relatively healthy (Shanahan tenure) but then you get bored eating the same foods and try something different and it doesn't take long if you eat like crap before your body has gone to hell (McDaniels' tenure). It takes a long time to recover from something like this...

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I remember this was one game.

 

I note that some of what John Lynch was advocating does not occure easily out of the spread. The Broncos are transitioning in season. There were bound to be difficult times.

 

I have been on the side of the fence that Tebow will likely fail. That said, he may yet succeed. This was one game. I am willing to see another half dozen games before even thinking about reachig conclusions on the evidence of him put up as a pro. Right now all I have is his college resume` and a scant few pro efforts. The minimal evidence has me with a negative impression, but I wait on more a more definitive body of work.

 

Agreed with everything you've said. If DEN goes back to Orton, it goes back to a QB who had the worst record in the NFL as a starter over his last 24 games. What purpose does that serve? Quinn already has built his resume, and his play in games is very reminiscent of what we are seeing from Tebow right now. There is no downside to just leaving Tebow in and letting him play.

 

But for Pete's sake, give him some plays that will save his ass from a pass rush, and even better back the pass rush off, give him a little more help with extra blockers or chipping before players go out on routes, and then coach him up and see if he can improve. What is going on now is nonsensical and if it continues ought to get the both Fox and McCoy canned.

Edited by Bronco Billy
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Ever contemplate what would have become of some top players on well-coached teams had they been drafted by say, Cleveland, Oakland, etc? Makes you wonder how Tebow would be doing on a team that had a clue.

 

:wacko:

 

Probably still crappy.

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I think so highly of Tebow that I'm considering betting the house on Oakland to destroy Denver this weekend (assuming Tebow gets the start).

 

He looked absolutely TERRIBLE. Not bad. Not kind of out of sorts. Not needs some improvement.

 

They said they wanted to transition into a college stlye offense? Mission accomplished, because that looked like a college team playing a pro team yesterday.

 

If the lions didn't drop a couple balls Tebow threw right at them, the score would have been even worse.

 

I really do hope Tebow succeeds, but I really doubt that he will.

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So the Broncos are just supposed to abandon a pro-style offense and opt for a spread offense where the key is "doesn't require NFL throws"? That's why they call them NFL throws, because the windows are far smaller in the NFL...

 

Obviously the talk of people just being "haters" is over... The guy isn't improving as a passer, so simplifying the offense isn't going to do anything but simplify it for the defense you're going up against... Now I'm no D-coordinator, so maybe there is a possibility that a proliferation of the spread offense working in the NFL, but I have serious doubts about that.

 

Now I'm not advocating for them to go back to Orton, but it's like I said before they made the switch that they weren't doing anyone any favors by putting in Tebow before he's ready (if he ever is)... So yes, they absolutely are setting up for failure and basically telling the fans "well, this is what you wanted" (not to mention Orton basically lost the job more than he won it), but come on, you can only adapt your scheme midseason so much to accentuate a player's strengths, before he has to fit in with what you're trying to do...

 

This idea that if you just build a college scheme around him that has no track record for success in the NFL just seems silly... If Mike Vick and Cam Newton couldn't skate by on their athletic gifts without improving as an accurate passer, then I don't see how there's any way Tebow can just skate by on his athletic abilities either.

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can't see any point whatsoever in going back to orton. he has failed miserably. he should never start another game for the broncos. going to brady quinn around week 12? that I can see.

I can certainly understand turning the page on Orton at this point, but I wonder why everyone is fixating on week 12 with Quinn? I've read "week 12" elsewhere in addition to your post. If he stinks it up again next week, and then the week after that? Would they really need to give him, yet another, game after that "just to make sure"?

 

Wait too long on the Quinn experiment, and you may find yourself in the same dilemma next year. Maybe the kid gets hot against a couple teams who've given up or are playing out the string and everyone starts wondering if Quinn has gotten his groove back and you carry that headache into next year.

 

Who knows if this whole mess with Tebow could have been avoided had they not waited until the very end of the season before they tried him out last yaer. Maybe his warts would have shown in time for the team to realize that they'd seen enough.

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Why? So Orton can keep failing in clutch situations? DEN already knows he has that nailed.
As one of the few teams suckier then yours, I would rather have a QB that fails in a clutch situation, then one that never even gets close to begin with. Tebow came close to giving Painter a run for his money yesterday. Hopefully for Tebow and your team's sake he doesn't try to win that competition.
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Tebow could probably play a Vince Young type offense if he had a guy like CJ to hand it off to. Problem is that Denver doesn't have very good RBs either at this point. My guess is that between "the Denver OC is setting him up to fail" vs. they just don't believe some college-esque scheme can actually win long term in the NFL, I'd say the latter is more likely.

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Why? So Orton can keep failing in clutch situations? DEN already knows he has that nailed.

 

At the risk of being called a Tebow sack-swinger, which I have been labeled by some even though I have stated clearly that Tebow's performances have sucked so far this year, DEN needs to listen to what John Lynch was preaching while announcing all game yesterday. They need to give Tebow plays that he can run successfully.

 

Where were the screeens and 5 yd hot routes when DET was bringing 5 to 7 guys after the first series? No slants, no waggles, no hooks or ins. Despite DET regularly sending more than the O-line could handle - and the O-line struggles with regular pressure (I have no clue why rookie Orlando Franklin is playing RT - Tebow's blindside - because he simply can not move his feet to even get his hands on opposing DEs, much less protect Tebow). Yet OC McCoy is still calling for routes by recivers to be run 20 yds+ downfield.

 

Tebow looked shell shocked in the 2nd half yesterday. He made some really bad throws, but he made some good throws too. That deep pass to Royal, who forgot to drag his back foot, would have been a sweet TD. Some of his better passes went right through the hands of D Thomas, Royal, and J Thomas.

 

Lynch was right on target with his assessment, which he called for all game long. Give Tebow some plays that he can be successful at, and that the O-line can keep the D off of him, work on his fundamentals like footwork, timing, etc, and see if he can play. But if DEN is simply going to continue with running almost exclusively pass routes that take 4 to 5 seconds to develop, Tebow is not only going to be miserable - which he was again yesterday - but he's going to get hurt badly.

 

If the DEN braintrust simply can't comprehend that and instead throw Tebow to the wolves, they may as well send him packing for a 7th round draft pick and start Orton or Quinn and let them continue to lose. What they are doing on O benefits no one, the O can't pull it off, and it does nothing to see if Tebow actually has the goods - which he very well may not.

 

It's almost as though the coaches are actively setting Tebow up.

 

One thing is to build an offense around a player and another thing is to coddle a player. He's had time to progress. He's had a whole year to learn the basic keys to being under center. When he's not even doing the basics, and getting frazzled each and every time he steps back, it's a sign that he cannot handle the job. You don't think that Detroit would have been all over the dink and dunk plays? If I were a defensive Coordinator, that would be the first thing I would cover. I think the coaching staff made the right call holding Tebow accountable to make some plays, but he didn't. Tebow is a gimmick. That's too bad for him, because he is talented. But with so much hype, who can really live up to that? I think with LOTS of development, he'll be an NFL Quarterback. But not a franchise one.

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Ever contemplate what would have become of some top players on well-coached teams had they been drafted by say, Cleveland, Oakland, etc? Makes you wonder how Tebow would be doing on a team that had a clue.

 

:wacko:

 

Probably still crappy.

 

This situation reminds me of when Heath Schuler had the misfortune of being a starting rookie QB with the Redskins under Spurrier's college offensive schemes. I know Schuler was not an elite Qb, but to me he never had a chance and was done in by his coaching staff. I see Tebow going the same route.

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So the Broncos are just supposed to abandon a pro-style offense and opt for a spread offense where the key is "doesn't require NFL throws"?

 

Who made that statement? Or do you consider the quick slants that Brady throws regularly to Welker to be non-NFL throws? I guess Rodgers sucks as a pro QB because he throws screen passes and waggles when other teams try to rattle him with blitzes?

 

If Tebow can't play, fine. But at least give him a fighting chance by running plays that can take the heat off the pass rushes that MIA and DET sent after him. To have him being forced to stand in the pocket while his receivers are running 15 and 20 yd patterns and his pocket is collapsing after 3 seconds isn't telling anyone anything about the kid, other than he can take a beating.

Edited by Bronco Billy
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