keggerz Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Screen Shots Seriously, watch the video...then look at the screen shots and tell me when or how he had possession prior to crossing the plane of the EZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 He had both hands on the ball, one foot down before end zone, second foot into end zone, falls to ground, ground causes him to loose control of ball. TD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 He had both hands on the ball, one foot down before end zone, second foot into end zone, falls to ground, ground causes him to loose control of ball. TD Not according to the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) He had both hands on the ball, one foot down before end zone, second foot into end zone, falls to ground because of a defender, ground causes him to loose control of ball. TD you saw it all correctly...just not interpreting what is and isn't a TD per the rules Not according to the rules. This Edited November 21, 2011 by keggerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Not according to the rules. Only if you ignore Section 38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Only if you ignore Section 38 even if you are kidding you know you are going to go and make me check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) even if you are kidding you know you are going to go and make me check Also check Note 1 to what is a catch. Article 7. IMHO, he was not attempting to secure possession when the ground caused him to lose control. He already had possession. I guess I'm just seeing the play as done when he crosses the plane with control. Edited November 21, 2011 by Clubfoothead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troublez Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Here is right before the catch Clearly no possession yet with his left foot down on the ground already, his first of two steps. This is the exact point in which he first established possession of the ball Clearly over the white line. The catch is established in the end zone and then he goes to the ground. Must maintain possession. Pretty obvious and the right call. You are wrong Clubfoothead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Also check Note 1 to what is a catch. Article 7. IMHO, he was not attempting to secure possession when the ground caused him to lose control. He already had possession. I guess I'm just seeing the play as done when he crosses the plane with control. that is just it...if you are deemed to be going to the ground...possession isn't possession until you basically get up and can hand the ball to the ref (or spike it etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 NFL has to do away with this rule. When a player displays control of the ball, it's a catch. He wasn't juggling the ball or anything. He had control until he went out of bounds. It cost the Bengals a shot in OT and it's stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I applaud that you actually referred to the rule book (seriously, no sarcasm) Only if you ignore Section 38 Section 38 Touchdown TOUCHDOWN A Touchdown is the situation in which any part of the ball, legally in possession of a player inbounds, is on, above, or behind the opponent’s goal line (plane), provided it is not a touchback (11-2). The bolded is the issue...he doesn't have possession until he gets up with the ball...because he was going to the ground Also check Note 1 to what is a catch. Article 7. IMHO, he was not attempting to secure possession when the ground caused him to lose control. He already had possession. I guess I'm just seeing the play as done when he crosses the plane with control. I know it is confusing, but he didn't have possession, according to the rules. section 7 CATCH A catch is made when a player inbounds secures possession of a pass, kick, or fumble in flight (See 8-1-3). Note 1: It is a catch if in the process of attempting to catch the ball, a player secures control of the ball prior to the ball touching the ground and that control is maintained after the ball has touched the ground. Note 2: In the field of play, if a catch of a forward pass has been completed, and there is contact by a defender causing the ball to come loose before the runner is down by contact, it is a fumble, and the ball remains alive. In the end zone, the same action is a touchdown, since the receiver completed the catch beyond the goal line prior to the loss of possession, and the ball is dead when the catch is completed. Here is more to help: COMPLETED OR INTERCEPTED PASS Article 3 Completed or Intercepted Pass. A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds: (a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and ( touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and © maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and ( have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.). Note 1: It is not necessary that he commit such an act, provided that he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so. Note 2: If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered a loss of possession. He must lose control of the ball in order to rule that there has been a loss of possession. If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any part of his body other than his hands to the ground, or if there is any doubt that the acts were simultaneous, it is not a catch. Item 1: Player Going to the Ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete. Item 2: Sideline Catches. If a player goes to the ground out-of-bounds (with or without contact by an opponent) in the process of making a catch at the sideline, he must maintain complete and continuous control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, or the pass is incomplete. Item 3: End Zone Catches. If a player controls the ball while in the end zone, both feet, or any part of his body other than his hands, must be completely on the ground before losing control, or the pass is incomplete. Note: In the field of play, if a catch of a forward pass has been completed, after which contact by a defender causes the ball to become loose before the runner is down by contact, it is a fumble, and the ball remains alive. In the end zone, the same action is a touchdown, since the receiver completed the catch beyond the goal line prior to the loss of possession, and the ball is dead when the catch is completed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 NFL has to do away with this rule. When a player displays control of the ball, it's a catch. He wasn't juggling the ball or anything. He had control until he went out of bounds. It cost the Bengals a shot in OT and it's stupid. yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 NFL has to do away with this rule. When a player displays control of the ball, it's a catch. He wasn't juggling the ball or anything. He had control until he went out of bounds. It cost the Bengals a shot in OT and it's stupid. Can't say I disagree with you, but with how the rule is written it was the right call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troublez Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Personally I think the rule is fine. If you are going to the ground on a catch hold on to the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Remember this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Remember this one? I think that at times it is hard for some people to look at things objectively because they own the guy or are playing against him...or it is their homer team that it benefits or hurts...the officials, with as much scrutiny and flack they get don't/shouldn't have those issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Remember this one? Yes. That one is even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Here is right before the catch Clearly no possession yet with his left foot down on the ground already, his first of two steps. This is the exact point in which he first established possession of the ball Clearly over the white line. The catch is established in the end zone and then he goes to the ground. Must maintain possession. Pretty obvious and the right call. You are wrong Clubfoothead. The only argument was that there was more than slight motion. There was not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troublez Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) NFL has to do away with this rule. When a player displays control of the ball, it's a catch. He wasn't juggling the ball or anything. He had control until he went out of bounds. It cost the Bengals a shot in OT and it's stupid. I agree. In the EZ, when a player makes a catch, he should have control at the instant any part of his body other than his hands hits the ground. At that point, he has scored, IMO. I don't see any point in dragging it out beyond that. He's down. Period. Edited November 21, 2011 by Ursa Majoris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenzal rhomb Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 I agree. In the EZ, when a player makes a catch, he should have control at the instant any part of his body other than his hands hits the ground. At that point, he has scored, IMO. I don't see any point in dragging it out beyond that. He's down. Period. I understand everyones point but doesnt the fact that he has possession when he steps OB negate the need to control it to the ground. Its a catch, he steps out with possession, then falls to the ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 He didn't even have his second foot down until after he crossed the goal line. He then went to the ground and didn't maintain possession. The NFL has been calling this an incompletion time and time again for a number of years now. This would be the second, which, I guess is a number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I think that at times it is hard for some people to look at things objectively because they own the guy or are playing against him...or it is their homer team that it benefits or hurts...the officials, with as much scrutiny and flack they get don't/shouldn't have those issues. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfamdelfam Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 rule should be changed, IMO it should be - If possession is had outside the endzone, once the ball crosses the plane it is a touchdown, ball does not have to be secured going to the ground - If possession is made inside the endzone, control of the ball must be kept going to the ground why can't it just be that simple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I don't like the rule at all, but this seems consistent with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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