jmike314 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Really?!? What's up with the play calling in Philly? Game in control...at the 5...and you have Vince throw it 3 times only to settle for a field goal. Then, because you want VY to air it out for some reason, the offense stalls and NE goes up by 2 scores...then 3 scores. Should of used McCoy to control the tempo of the game and keep the defense honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 They are down too many pts ...you will see alot more of VY unfortunately and alot less of mccoy rest of this game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I would say that he should get more than 14 touches per game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalhead316 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Yea its total bs...there is no reason to put the game in the hands of Young, no reason. Even if it means more screens, more dump offs etc...Mccoy is your play maker, use him. Its why imho Reid is a bum and i dont care how many times he went to the playoffs, he will never win anything with such silly play calling. On the what was it, 2 yard line and you have a guy like McCoy...yet you instead fake and have a QB that hasnt proven anything, roll out to hit Celek...really? Really?? And its not even because im a McCoy owner, id of said that if i was just watching the game as a passerby. Its just worthless...but oh well, it aint my neck on the line...when its been 20+ years and Reid has still won nothing then i can just laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebartender Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 This is all Andy Reid. His game plan is to pass, pass, pass, and pass. I just don't understand why he doesn't feed the ball to McCoy 20-25 times a game. Even if the run isn't working, you have to stick with it to keep the defense honest. Plus eventually McCoy will break one. 13 years and still the same game plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Reality check ... NE is MUCH weaker defending the pass than they are defending the run ... I'm sure Andy doesn't care if you have McCoy on your fantasy team and would rather him call a running play ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethant Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Reality check ... NE is MUCH weaker defending the pass than they are defending the run ... I'm sure Andy doesn't care if you have McCoy on your fantasy team and would rather him call a running play ... This is true but: 1) Brady/Belichick are going to try and light you up on the scoreboard. You need a way to control game tempo, 2) Vince Young is a bad bet to lead you to victory - he's best as a game manager. Not the VY of 2006 or 2009 - the VY of 2011. 3) McCoy is by far your best player who can help with #1 and mitigate the downside of #2 4) Passing 3 times in short yardage situations is rarely defensible. Passing to an out of bounds player even less so. 5) Even with recent improvements, NE's run defense is not exactly frightening. Reid may not care about FFL - fair enough - but his team got waxed Sunday. I agree with the OP that more McCoy was worth a shot, especially with an early lead. I owned Ray Rice last year in my main league and came to the same conclusion I'm coming to with McCoy this year. Sometimes you lean on your best players. You may still lose, but at least you took the highest probability path to victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Here is why this thread confuses me. Has anyone watched the Eagles under Reid? They are always a heavy pass team. That's just what he is. Sure McCoy should get more touches, but it is what it is, and last I checked it does not stop McCoy (or Westy before him) from becoming top fantasy football stud RB's. So my thought is deal with it, and you still get greatness from McCoy. He ran in a short TD yesterday, so be happy with that. Usually he gets 15/20 touches, so be happy with that. In that O that is a lot, and makes him a clear top RB in fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalhead316 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) But he can still pass, look at what Stafford is/was doing with Smith...that kills teams when you have a guy that is like McCoy out of the back field making some plays, and thats generally when McCoy is at his best, giving him space to start moving...and Reid doesnt even consider it. I just simply dont get the mentality the man has with passing, sure its fun, its flashy, its what we all did in our backyards all the time...but the run game needs to be established. Having players like Rodgers and Brady you dont need to establish anything, they will just pass all over your face all day long. But when you have scrubs like Young back there, you utilize your stars like McCoy...and that is again why i say Andy Reid will never go anywhere. Edited November 28, 2011 by Metalhead316 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I agree with you, and for the most part it is not a winning formula (why they have only made 1 SB and never won it IMO), passing 60% of the time and soft in short yardage, but I just don't think I could complain that much if I owned McCoy. He does usually get 15-20 touches a game, and sometimes more. 14 yesterday was low, but they started to get blown out, and he did run in a short score which is not that common for him. So I get it. I would run more. I would get him 22 + touches a game period, but he does average 21.5 touches per game, and is still a stud, so I'd be pretty happy still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MnLefty Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Reality check ... NE is MUCH weaker defending the pass than they are defending the run ... I'm sure Andy doesn't care if you have McCoy on your fantasy team and would rather him call a running play ... 2 things I see too much that I'd do different as a coach... 1. Fit your system to your players, instead of trying to force players into a system. Your best weapon is LeSean McCoy, especially when you have VY instead of MV at QB. Be a running team when that's what you have. 2. Impose your will instead of planning around the defense. This is especially true when you're on your backup QB. Give it a go with McCoy first since that's what YOU do well. If it doesn't work, then look to exploit the NE pass D. If it does work, exploiting that pass D just became that much easier. It's tougher against a dominating D/run D, but NE is far from that. Yes they have pass defense issues, but that doesn't automatically mean their run D is stout, and it shouldn't mean that you automatically put the game on VY's passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Imagine what would happen if McCoy didn't average 21.5 touches per game or wasn't tied for the 4th most rushing attempts in the league... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 2 things I see too much that I'd do different as a coach... 1. Fit your system to your players, instead of trying to force players into a system. Your best weapon is LeSean McCoy, especially when you have VY instead of MV at QB. Be a running team when that's what you have. 2. Impose your will instead of planning around the defense. This is especially true when you're on your backup QB. Give it a go with McCoy first since that's what YOU do well. If it doesn't work, then look to exploit the NE pass D. If it does work, exploiting that pass D just became that much easier. It's tougher against a dominating D/run D, but NE is far from that. Yes they have pass defense issues, but that doesn't automatically mean their run D is stout, and it shouldn't mean that you automatically put the game on VY's passing. I bet you're the same person that would be saying that good coaches should take what the defense gives you after they give McCoy 40 touches and still lose the game. If you are facing a team with the number 1 rush defense and the 32nd ranked pass defense why would you try to run the ball ... obviously NE doesn't fit that description but you get my point. Very often the way to win is to attack your opponent's biggest weakness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebartender Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Imagine what would happen if McCoy didn't average 21.5 touches per game or wasn't tied for the 4th most rushing attempts in the league... . McCoy has had 20+ rushing attempts 4 times this season. The Eagles won 3 of those 4 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmike314 Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 I understand what the Philly offense is (pass first...I get it). I understand why Reid is trying to force it with VY...makes sense. But here's the thing...Philly is hurting - bad. Any outside shot they had at the playoffs went off the map with VY's last pass. You have to try to win...regardless of your game plan. Fantasy points aside, I like to watch Philly for the sole purpose of watching McCoy play. As a football fan, I see him as a bright spot among selfish & egotistical players. On the many passes where he was relegated to backfield protection he was outstanding as a blocking back - getting into position and taking on LBs, CBs, and DLs. Still - when you're inside the 5 yardline and up 7 zip - you've got to score. When you're ahead against a team that is going to air it out all night long, you have to control the tempo of the game. 3 passes and a punt put the Eagles in a huge hole and forced them to stick with an ineffective game plan. Gees - if you're not going to run him, how about a screen or 2 or 12 his way. Something/anything to get him into the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 This is all Andy Reid. His game plan is to pass, pass, pass, and pass. I just don't understand why he doesn't feed the ball to McCoy 20-25 times a game. Even if the run isn't working, you have to stick with it to keep the defense honest. Plus eventually McCoy will break one. 13 years and still the same game plan. nothing new here if you have followed football for the past 15 years "If you hit a square peg hard enough it will go in a round hole" Andy Reid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 fwiw, thru 11 weeks, the Eagles have run the ball 296 times, 7th most in the league HOU 357 OAK 325 JAX 319 SF 315 DEN 314 PHI 296 They rank 16th (tied) in pass attempts with 354 The Buccaneers throw the ball 72.32% more than they run it....that is the largest disparity in run/pass ratio The Eagles rank 23rd in that stat...throwing it just 19.59% more than they run it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 fwiw, thru 11 weeks, the Eagles have run the ball 296 times, 7th most in the leagueHOU 357 OAK 325 JAX 319 SF 315 DEN 314 PHI 296 They rank 16th (tied) in pass attempts with 354 The Buccaneers throw the ball 72.32% more than they run it....that is the largest disparity in run/pass ratio The Eagles rank 23rd in that stat...throwing it just 19.59% more than they run it. I wonder how many of those plays were pass calls that Vick took off on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I wonder how many of those plays were pass calls that Vick took off on... he has 65 runs so if ALL were pass plays then you would be looking at them passing 64.5% more than they run it. but I have no clue how many times a run was an option vs the pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I wonder how many of those plays were pass calls that Vick took off on... He has 65 rushes in 9 games. From prior interviews only 2 or 3 per game are called running plays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubdaddy Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Really?!? What's up with the play calling in Philly? Game in control...at the 5...and you have Vince throw it 3 times only to settle for a field goal. Then, because you want VY to air it out for some reason, the offense stalls and NE goes up by 2 scores...then 3 scores. Should of used McCoy to control the tempo of the game and keep the defense honest. I hear you...7 plays inside the 5 and you don't run a single one...with one of, if not the best RB in the league....really?...when will Reid stop trying to overthink things....look at their wins...McCoy ran the ball 20+ times in their wins...and their losses?...hmmmm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalhead316 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I hear you...7 plays inside the 5 and you don't run a single one...with one of, if not the best RB in the league....really?...when will Reid stop trying to overthink things....look at their wins...McCoy ran the ball 20+ times in their wins...and their losses?...hmmmm.... And its amazing the people that seem to not see this, its ashame...because McCoy is pure talent and one hell of a rb. I hope he has some good games coming up for the playoffs, it would time up just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 (edited) I think people see Philly should run more in general, it has been that way for years, but that still doesn't change the fact that McCoy averages 21.5 touches per game. And is tied for 4th IN THE WHOLE LEAGUE in rushes. And against NE he ran in for a short TD. And in most scoring systems is a top 3 fantasy RB at worst. This thread just comes across as a little bit of complaining for McCoy owners on his usage, but when you factor in the actual numbers I'm not sure it is horrible. Should he have gotten more touches in this game against NE...sure, but overall the guy gets plenty of touches and scores plenty of points IMO. Again, maybe a few more runs a game...yes, but anything outrageous...I don't think so. Edited November 29, 2011 by giantsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazysight Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 (edited) Reality check ... NE is MUCH weaker defending the pass than they are defending the run ... I'm sure Andy doesn't care if you have McCoy on your fantasy team and would rather him call a running play ... Green Bay is also, statistically speaking, MUCH weaker defending the pass than they are at defending the run. Yet, oddly enough, both defenses are league leaders in interceptions, and both have outstandingly explosive offenses. And despite the yards that the Pats give up per game against the pass, they give up very few points against that same pass. Hmm....do you think part of the reason these two teams look so bad statistically against the pass could be because when teams go down by 3 scores to these offenses they have little option at that point but to pass, pass pass, against a defense at that point that is likely playing it somewhat safe? Conversely, do you think that might also have something to do with why both statistically have run defenses that are among the best in the league? However the Eagles got out to an early 10-0 lead, so to limit the touches of your best offensive player in favor of a backup QB who has backup wideouts playing and is known for turning the ball over against a defense that is known for picking the ball off doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. Edited November 29, 2011 by Crazysight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebartender Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 but that still doesn't change the fact that McCoy averages 21.5 touches per game. And is tied for 4th IN THE WHOLE LEAGUE in rushes His total number of attempts are not the issue, it is the consistency of his attempts from game to game or lack there of in this case. You say he is 4th overall in number of attempts and that is correct. But what you don't factor in is that 4 of the other RBs below him have all missed time and are still very close. Foster = 193 attempts (missed 2 games) Peterson = 187 attempts (missed 1 game) Wells = 181 attempts (missed 1 game) SJax = 172 attempts (basically missed 3 games - the first game he got hurt on his first run, out game 2, and he got hurt again early in game 3) And other then SJax that doesn't count games those players left early due to injury. McCoy had had 16 or less attempts in half of his games. He has had only 4 games where he carried the ball 20+ times. I don't believe you can say that for any of the other top RBs. And I am not looking at this strictly from a fantasy perspective. The point I am trying to make is that when you have one of the top 4-5 RBs in the NFL you should use them more consistently. But Reid's MO has always been to use the pass to get out in front early and then run the ball when he can. If they don't get out to an early lead then the run is all but ignored. And I understand that game situations dictate the play calling but to basically abandon the run in so many games when you have such a talented RB is just ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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