colkaos Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 In the local money league I play in, the playoff participants are basically set. There were 2 teams that could have increased their chances by getting a win this week, but they both lost. The only thing really to play for at this point is the seeding. When the playoffs start - wk 14, the top 2 teams have a bye and the other matchups are 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5. I am currently in the 4 slot but would rather play out of the 6 slot. Assuming I would win my first round matchup I would then face our 2 seed instead of the 1 seed. Theoretically, giving me an easier path to the superbowl (3 seed has huge hole at RB after losing F Jax). I would have to lose this week to set this plan into motion, which i can do by sitting Jacobs and Graham. Is this good strategy or poor sportsmanship. I personally wouldn't have a problem with it if another manager chose this route but I am a bit biased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkirc Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 There are many opinions on this issue, but I feel you should field your best lineup every week. It seems when owners overthink things and try to lose on purpose, Karma bites them in the butt. Whatever way you go, you still have to beat all the teams you play to win a championship. It feels a lot better to do it the right way...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I figured it was about time for this thread to pop up again this year. The goal of the game is to score the most points by putting forth your best lineup. Period. Any other attempt to circumvent that spirit of the game, whether legal or illegal, is undoubtedly poor sportsmanship, when it can manipulate the standings and cause a more deserving team to miss out on the playoffs, and a less deserving team to make it. Frankly that makes completely selfish, when your one obligation to the league should be to score the most points possible by putting forth your best lineup. And even people who are proponents of it being good strategy would tell you that it can just as easily backfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 You'll get a large range of opinions. Many will ask if your rules address it in any way, if not its ok. Personally I think tanking for any reason is a bad move. Whether it be for playoff seeding, to get the best pick, or anything else. If it doesn't feel or seem right, it probably isn't. PS If you sit those players, is it really that impossible for you to win? PPS We have a weekly high score payout which we hope prevents people from doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Manage your team the way you think you need to manage it to win as long as it doesn't break the rules. There is nothing unethical about what you want to do. Ultimately, if you really think it will give you a better chance to win, then do it. People who say it isn't the right thing to do are apparently not interested in maximizing their chances of winning within the rules. There is nothing at all wrong with this. And if the 5 or 6 seed team is smart, they'll see what you are doing and decide to do it as well to undermine your strategy. It's like icing a kicker... Sometimes it backfires, and many think it's kind of cheesy, but coaches will do it if they think there is a chance it increases the likelihood of the kick being missed. Or consider the idea of taking a safety at the end of a game instead of punting with just a few seconds left... Sometimes the best way to win is to do something that on the surface looks like it hurts your team (I.e. losing a game with a playoff spot already secured) in order to position yourself for the best opportunity to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 You should rest your guys so they'll be ready for the playoff push. +1. You don't want to risk injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I thought this thread would be about the colts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 The goal of the game is to score the most points by putting forth your best lineup. Period. I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusions, but I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Isn't the goal for each team to manage their team in such a way as to hopefully win a Championship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 This is why my local has a Home Field Advantage rule - the higher seed owner can name two different bench players and can put ONE of them into your lineup if they outscore a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusions, but I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Isn't the goal for each team to manage their team in such a way as to hopefully win a Championship? Yes, by scoring as many points as possible to accumulate wins and points, and make the playoffs and ultimately the championship. I can't think of one single legitimate strategy that is not based around that simple premise. Think about if you're in a points-only league, because we do H2H to have fun and simulate real games, not to make an excuse for a "strategy" of manipulating the standings by doing something that any idiot could do. It takes no skill to tank, only a brain wired to do the wrong thing by not giving it your best effort. Perhaps I'd change my tone if I could come up with any legitimate strategy that's not based on putting forth your best lineup and accumulating the most points, but I just don't see it (particularly in redraft, but even in keeper/dynasty, you still have that minimum obligation with your players on roster).... But either way, the one thing you owe to your league mates is to play it out, because you putting out anything besides your best lineup affects others besides yourself who are putting their best effort into playing it the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Rodgers Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Things got pretty heated in my big money league last year. One owner tanked the last game of the season in order to get a better matchup in the first round. By doing this, he knocked out another team (who got pissed). I had to allow it since we didnt have a rule in place but I made sure that was corrected this year. I think you know it is sketchy and that is why you are asking here before you try it. My view is that you just play your normal lineup each week or Karma will just end up biting you in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coordi88 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 If you have to ask you know you are riding a line. That is about it. How important is winning to you? If you affect someone in the league negatively then they will surely attack your integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsosi Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 The goal of the game is to score the most points by putting forth your best lineup. Period. 100% disagree. The goal of the game is to win the league title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz1 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Obviously you haven't played fantasy football enough to know the answer to your own question. You NEVER, do anything to piss off the fantasy gods if you can help it. Thats rule number 1. Rule #2, never assume you will have an easier matchup with one team over the other. Just when you think that, Benie Wells goes off for 200+ and a touchdown or two. Rule #3, see rules 1 and 2. I was in a league where the owner did just what you suggested. He lost in week one of the playoffs and then tied in the big one. He lost because of Total points! FYI, play to win.............period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz1 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 No such think as ff karma or ff gods. Come on, its silly. Just for the record, I was never here......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffraff Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 As the 6 seed, you get to play the #2 seed instead of the #1 seed? Must be a set bracket instead of the top dog getting the worst seeded team advancing. In theory, the OP will have to take out the #2 and #1 seeds either way. Doesn't really matter which one comes first. If you score the most points, it doesn't matter who you play. It's the only way to ensure victory. Now get out there and score points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 As the 6 seed, you get to play the #2 seed instead of the #1 seed? Must be a set bracket instead of the top dog getting the worst seeded team advancing. In theory, the OP will have to take out the #2 and #1 seeds either way. Doesn't really matter which one comes first. If you score the most points, it doesn't matter who you play. It's the only way to ensure victory. Now get out there and score points. It matters if there is second place prize money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I think that fundamental fairness dictates that you have an obligation to start your best lineup every week, regardless if your league has rule about it. And if your league needs a rule for that, I sure in the hell don't want to play in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I think that fundamental fairness dictates that you have an obligation to start your best lineup every week, regardless if your league has rule about it. And if your league needs a rule for that, I sure in the hell don't want to play in it. Essentially this, though I think it needs to be modified to be that fundamental fairness be that you have an obligation to do your best to win every week. Keggerz thread has a good discussion going (not that it isn't a topic that's been discussed a ton in the past) about scenarios where you may want to adjust your lineup (if possible) to prevent possible negative points from costing you a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I will laugh at you when your "easy" matchup ends up biting you in the arse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Essentially this, though I think it needs to be modified to be that fundamental fairness be that you have an obligation to do your best to win every week. Keggerz thread has a good discussion going (not that it isn't a topic that's been discussed a ton in the past) about scenarios where you may want to adjust your lineup (if possible) to prevent possible negative points from costing you a game. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsosi Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 You don't have to look very hard to find real life example of pro teams tanking games to get a better playoff matchup or get a better draft pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 (edited) I hate tanking. It happens but you can do things to minimize it. 1) We have a best efforts clause and if challenged the owners 1st round pick may be at risk the following year or that owner runs the risk of being replaced. 2) We are actually more concerned with Tanking at the bottom end of the league in our Dynasty league so we are implementing a system that non playoff teams draft order will be determined by Potential Points which clearly shows who are the weakest teams. I will say if your rules don't cover it then some owners will do what is in their best interests regardless of what is best in the spirit of competition. Some owners will tank if given the opportunity and that is a strategy employed unless rules are designed to prevent it. Never easy to stop but it is the ugly side of the game. Edited November 29, 2011 by Ice1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 You don't have to look very hard to find real life example of pro teams tanking games to get a better playoff matchup or get a better draft pick. Okay, I'll bite. Find me one example where there is legitimate documentation to support that idea. NFL teams have fan-bases to answer to, and coaches and players have jobs to secure. Teams only sit players to prevent injury.... Anyways, comparing every little FF loophole to NFL football is silly. It's an entirely different game, because you know, this one is fictional for a little scratch, largely between friends, and not millions of dollars. If you want to win by not putting forth your best effort and screwing someone out of a playoff spot so you can get a better matchup, then that's on you, but I'd never play in a league with ya.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 You don't have to look very hard to find real life example of pro teams tanking games to get a better playoff matchup or get a better draft pick. I'm having a hard time. How about a couple of examples of occasions when the players on any professional team intentionally tried to lose a game to get a better playoff matchup or get a better draft pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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