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A what would you do scenario...


keggerz
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First let me say that this is NOT a WDIS (I already sent BJ a message with what I was going to do and he can post that after the game starts)

 

 

I am up on my opponent by 21.50 points...I have Brandon Jacobs and Jo-Lon Dunbar left....he has Lawrence Tynes left...I can not overtake him for the division lead...the only way I get in is as a WC and by winning this week I pretty much guarantee myself a playoff spot (I think)..total points will not come into play in the playoff scenarios...here is the scenario...

 

I have Bradshaw on my bench....would you consider benching Jacobs for Bradshaw (who is OUT)...that way you can't end up with a negative point week from Jacobs (you know fumbles)...fwiw, in the past three years a kicker has scored more than 21.50 points just 4 times (2 last year and 2 this year).

 

Like I said, I already know what I am doing and have told Big John and he can post it here after the game starts...just thought it might create some interesting debate.

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No debate on my part. You try to score as many points every week possible, and saying that you think Jacobs will fumble and be pulled from the game by a benching or injury before he scores positive points, I would assume you'd be doing something different with your life with that type of foresight.

 

Now next week, you should sit all your starters and play only your back ups in all your leagues.

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No debate on my part. You try to score as many points every week possible, and saying that you think Jacobs will fumble and be pulled from the game by a benching or injury before he scores positive points, I would assume you'd be doing something different with your life with that type of foresight.

 

Now next week, you should sit all your starters and play only your back ups in all your leagues.

:wacko:

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I do not think that someone should get such an advantage just by virtue of your players happening to be playing on Monday rather than Sunday at 1:00... In an ideal world, it would be most fair for all games to happen at the same time (since FF seeks to mimmick a real football game), but just because the NFL can make more money by spreading them out, I don't think it's right to use the luck of the draw to manipulate the standings.

 

Would you really feel right taking a more legitmate team's playoff spot, jsut because you were lucky enough to be in a MNF situation that he's not afforded? This is definitely another case where while it may be legal, it is most certainly unethical and not in the spirit of the game.

Edited by delusions of granduer
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I do not think that someone should get such an advantage just by virtue of your players happening to be playing on Monday rather than Sunday at 1:00... In an ideal world, it would be most fair for all games to happen at the same time (since FF seeks to mimmick a real football game), but just because the NFL can make more money by spreading them out, I don't think it's right to use the luck of the draw to manipulate the standings.

 

Would you really feel right taking a more legitmate team's playoff spot, jsut because you were lucky enough to be in a MNF situation that he's not afforded? This is definitely another case where while it may be legal, it is most certainly unethical and not in the spirit of the game.

By virtue of playing in a HTH league where the scheduling has worked out very much to my benefit I will most certainly be taking a more legitimate team's playoff spot...that is if I make it.

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I don't believe it to be unethical taking advantage of a situation regarding MNF... no different than an NFL team who may choose to rest players on the last monday night of the season after playoff scenarios were decided by outcomes the day before. Any head to head schedule is going to have the luck of the draw at some point.

 

That said, I think the fear of Jacobs posting a negative number is overthinking it a bit. If it were a much more marginal play, say Danny Ware instead, I'd consider it, but I think the odds of Tynes putting up 21+ are just as good as the odds of Jacobs posting a negative number.

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Since the question is would I consider it, the answer is a resounding yes, I would consider it.

 

Would I do it, well that's not so easy to answer and it has nothing to do with ethical/unethical. You make the move that you feel is most likely to give you the win. Whatever that is is the "ethical" play in terms of always trying to win your games.

 

I guess it really comes down to scoring system and what actions lead to a negative score. Is it just turnovers? Is the scoring system very elaborate with additional ways to lose points? How often do RBs end up with a negative score in this league.

 

My personal opinion (assuming a fairly standard scoring system) is that the odds of a negative score from Jacobs are quite low, to the point that not starting him is more risky to your chances of winning than starting him and risking a negative score.

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I don't believe it to be unethical taking advantage of a situation regarding MNF... no different than an NFL team who may choose to rest players on the last monday night of the season after playoff scenarios were decided by outcomes the day before. Any head to head schedule is going to have the luck of the draw at some point.

First, it's not that he's taking advantage of MNF (well, he is sorta, but it's more the issue of him starting a player who is clearly out, tanking (keyword) because of the virtue of having MNF hindsight of where he stands).

 

And comparing it to NFL teams sitting their starters is silly, because they do that to prevent injuries to their players. You obviously aren't doing it to prevent injury to your players, you're doing it to manipulate the standings. Huge difference.

 

And I would guess that anyone who says that it is ethical has never missed out on the playoffs because of someone pulling a BS move like this, rather than starting his best lineup and letting the chips fall where they may. I strongly feel that the one obligation you owe to your league for all 13 weeks, because it affects much more than just you...

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in that senario no, I play jacobs. now if I were up half a point and my opponent was done, slightly different story.

This. It's within the rules and would be a savvy play if you were in a situation where there was a realistic chance of you losing. In this case, Jacobs would have to fumble like 3-4 times, and you know Coughlin pulls his ass long before that. Even then, you've got to think there's some positive yardage to offset.

 

So, doing so in this case makes you kind of a chimicanga. Like Sanchez flinching on that play where he lined up wide. Doing so where the game is absolutely won unless your dude goes minus, means you're doing what it takes to win.

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First, it's not that he's taking advantage of MNF (well, he is sorta, but it's more the issue of him starting a player who is clearly out, tanking (keyword) because of the virtue of having MNF hindsight of where he stands).

 

And comparing it to NFL teams sitting their starters is silly, because they do that to prevent injuries to their players. You obviously aren't doing it to prevent injury to your players, you're doing it to manipulate the standings. Huge difference.

 

And I would guess that anyone who says that it is ethical has never missed out on the playoffs because of someone pulling a BS move like this, rather than starting his best lineup and letting the chips fall where they may. I strongly feel that the one obligation you owe to your league for all 13 weeks, because it affects much more than just you...

 

 

Tanking would be trying to intentionally lose.

 

In this case, he is contemplating steps to intentionally win.

 

So I guess you are right, he is trying to manipulate the standings in his favor, which is really the goal though, right?

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This. It's within the rules and would be a savvy play if you were in a situation where there was a realistic chance of you losing. In this case, Jacobs would have to fumble like 3-4 times, and you know Coughlin pulls his ass long before that. Even then, you've got to think there's some positive yardage to offset.

 

So, doing so in this case makes you kind of a chimicanga. Like Sanchez flinching on that play where he lined up wide. Doing so where the game is absolutely won unless your dude goes minus, means you're doing what it takes to win.

 

What if the league allows for scoring changes based on official scoring from Elias sports bureau? Does the risk of posting a negative point total outweigh the risk of your opponent gaining an extra point via stat changes?

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Tanking would be trying to intentionally lose.

 

In this case, he is contemplating steps to intentionally win.

 

So I guess you are right, he is trying to manipulate the standings in his favor, which is really the goal though, right?

If you take the win/loss component out, then the effect is no different than tanking for draft position or even apathy/collusion. I mean, I understand not playing a guy who's a risk to get you no points on a monday night, but to play a player who you're absolutely positive is not playing, so that you can slight someone else out of a playoff spot that they could have legitimately got over you had you not had the luxury of your player playing on Monday and being able to see the full picture, that's just a scummy way to win...

 

Again, it's not the issue of not playing the guy if you have another viable option, it's the fact that you're actively starting a non-optimal lineup with the purpose of manipulating the standings in your favor (and yes BC, I think manipulating is different than accumulating, which is the object of the game). I do not see it as any different than tanking for draft position, when the effects are the same on the others in your league, due to you not starting your best possible players.

Edited by delusions of granduer
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If you take the win/loss component out, then the effect is no different than tanking for draft position or even apathy/collusion. I mean, I understand not playing a guy who's a risk to get you no points on a monday night, but to play a player who you're absolutely positive is not playing, so that you can slight someone else out of a playoff spot that they could have legitimately got over you had you not had the luxury of your player playing on Monday and being able to see the full picture, that's just a scummy way to win...

 

Again, it's not the issue of not playing the guy if you have another viable option, it's the fact that you're actively starting a non-optimal lineup with the purpose of manipulating the standings in your favor (and yes BC, I think manipulating is different than accumulating, which is the object of the game). I do not see it as any different than tanking for draft position, when the effects are the same on the others in your league, due to you not starting your best possible players.

 

 

The problem is in this situation you absolutely can not take the win/loss component out of the equation as it is the most important factor in making this decision. I'll just have to agree to disagree that taking advantage of the whims of the NFL schedule if your rules allow lineup changes up to a players game time for the week is scummy. It's just like bye weeks, some weeks it'll help you out (as it is here) and some weeks it won't (ir roles were reversed) but at the end of the day, it balances out over the season. If you feel that it is bad, just be sure to play in leagues that lock lineups prior to the early game.

 

I also guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the purpose of the game. My purpose is to try to win as many games as possible and more imporantly win a league championship. I don't need to score the most points to do this (though it sure helps to do so), I just need to score more points than my opponent in that given week and it is my job to do everything I can (within the rules) to make that happen.

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The problem is in this situation you absolutely can not take the win/loss component out of the equation as it is the most important factor in making this decision. I'll just have to agree to disagree that taking advantage of the whims of the NFL schedule if your rules allow lineup changes up to a players game time for the week is scummy. It's just like bye weeks, some weeks it'll help you out (as it is here) and some weeks it won't (ir roles were reversed) but at the end of the day, it balances out over the season. If you feel that it is bad, just be sure to play in leagues that lock lineups prior to the early game.

 

I also guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the purpose of the game. My purpose is to try to win as many games as possible and more imporantly win a league championship. I don't need to score the most points to do this (though it sure helps to do so), I just need to score more points than my opponent in that given week and it is my job to do everything I can (within the rules) to make that happen.

Fair enough. It's a grey enough area to where we can agree to disagree.... I'd actually be more inclined to think it's good strategy in a high-stakes or cut-throat league, but in my locals or BoTH leagues, I just couldn't imagine stooping to something like that. It just doesn't feel right to not put forth my best lineup, regardless of what that may mean...

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