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The Colts need to release Peyton Manning.


CaptainHook
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I asked "why would Peyton renegotiate" and you answered :tup: I think you're right, but I think it is the only reason why he would renegotiate... is because of his character and his relationship with Irsay.

I should read more closely!! :wacko: Cool!

 

 

I disagree with the "because of his character" part.

 

Peyton's legacy is as an Indianapolis Colt. He wants to maintain that legacy and quite possibly the only way he can do that is by playing ball with the Colts. I think for the first time in years where Manning is concerned, the Colts are entertaining the prospect of life without him. And I think Manning's ego, not his character might cause him to play ball. He's "the man" in Indy. He wouldn't be to anywhere near the same extent anywhere else. Manning's a decent guy, not saying he isn't, but he's the king of Indy and probably wants to stay that way. I hope the Colts release him. Athletes that get paid that much money to play a game do not, in my opinion, deserve the adulation they get.

 

I think we may have to agree to disagree on that one......... I agree that part of his legacy is being an Indianapolis Colt, and I believe he truly wants to end his career here, much like his father played his entire career as a Saint. While he is considered the "man" as you put it, he's an incredibly private person, and he's very active in a private way here in town. One of the top Childrens Hospitals here in town was renamed the Peyton Manning Children's Hospital. Your name doesn't go on a hospital without donating millions and millions, and being recognized as a character guy. It was never disclosed by anyone how much he donated, and he always downplayed it when asked other than to say that he was simply happy and humbled to be involved with such a great organization. Peyton did get paid a ton of money and has earned a ton of money playing this game, but he's given a ton of that back to the community as well. Peyton has proven time and time again, he's nothing like many other players in this sport and others that have the big EGO's. Everyone I know who has ever met him has said he seems to be very genuine and humble.

 

Even in his original contract negotiations, he could have gotten so much more, but he took less money so others on the team could get more, and so the team could afford to sign other players in future years. That's not ego, that's character.

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I should read more closely!! :wacko: Cool!

 

 

 

 

I think we may have to agree to disagree on that one......... I agree that part of his legacy is being an Indianapolis Colt, and I believe he truly wants to end his career here, much like his father played his entire career as a Saint. While he is considered the "man" as you put it, he's an incredibly private person, and he's very active in a private way here in town. One of the top Childrens Hospitals here in town was renamed the Peyton Manning Children's Hospital. Your name doesn't go on a hospital without donating millions and millions, and being recognized as a character guy. It was never disclosed by anyone how much he donated, and he always downplayed it when asked other than to say that he was simply happy and humbled to be involved with such a great organization. Peyton did get paid a ton of money and has earned a ton of money playing this game, but he's given a ton of that back to the community as well. Peyton has proven time and time again, he's nothing like many other players in this sport and others that have the big EGO's. Everyone I know who has ever met him has said he seems to be very genuine and humble.

 

Even in his original contract negotiations, he could have gotten so much more, but he took less money so others on the team could get more, and so the team could afford to sign other players in future years. That's not ego, that's character.

 

Fair enough. I live up in Fort Wayne so it's not like I'm totally out in Timbuktu with my observation. I know some people who have met him personally as well and they said he was less than pleasant and not, as you say, humble.

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A Manning Legacy argument doesn't fly.

 

This is big business and it sure seems he will be on the outside looking in going forward. Besides, it makes no difference if he goes to the Jets as an example and wins a Super Bowl because 5 years after he retires his HOF and thus legacy will be as a Colt.

 

It wouldn't matter much if god himself opened the skies and decided to play QB for the Colts next year, this team has massive issues with old players in serious decline and many draft misses that simply can't play.

 

This team is terrible on both sides of the ball and in a pretty weak division overall. They can't run or pass on offense and are woefully undersized on defense to a point teams had their way with them.

 

They were very good for years but they are old and slow on both sides of the ball. This team is in full rebuild mode and the GM was fired not just because they missed on a backup QB but because they missed all over the field.

 

My guess is if Manning really can still play he would enjoy a change of scenery on a contending team to try to get one more title. Best case, this team is 4-5 years away from even having the opportunity to compete. The Texans are now years ahead of them on talent and the Titans are not that far behind the Texans from a talent perspective.

 

No knock on Manning but he is ancient in football years and is damaged goods. One of the best ever no doubt but this team is almost completely devoid of front line talent and it is time to eject and rebuild for the future.

 

Luck would be corner stone at QB and is infinitely more athletic at this point. Indy, while a great franchise is certainly not a mecca for FA from an attractiveness perspective so tough rebuilding times are ahead through the draft. Regardless of who plays QB, this team will struggle next year even with a last place schedule.

 

My guess is this team scraps the 4/3 defense and begins the 2-3 year process of moving to a hybrid 3-4 to compete faster. They will draft line heavy on both sides to rebuild the foundation and by 2013 try to add an impact WR as they are weak in this area as well but have far greater and immediate issues to protect the new QB and figure out how to stop other offenses that have an extremely easy time against them passing or running.

 

Should be interesting to watch but my guess is 5 wins next year if they are lucky with Luck or Manning at the helm which is why they eject Manning IMO. He is way too expensive for a team that is years away from any title hope.

 

Legacy though, Manning will always be remembered as the best Colt in the history of the franchise once he is in the hall and we all reflect back on his outstanding achievement. I think he is done completely but I believe the odds in the 90% range he is done as a Colt. Teams like the Redskins or Jets may open the wallet if he can play but he is healing extremely slowly these days.

Edited by Ice1
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Fair enough. I live up in Fort Wayne so it's not like I'm totally out in Timbuktu with my observation. I know some people who have met him personally as well and they said he was less than pleasant and not, as you say, humble.

 

Didn't mean to imply you were totally out in Timbuktu with the observation. Just think we are looking at it from different perspectives.... (However, if you in the Fort Wayne area, that's pretty close to Timbuktu... :wacko: )

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he is healing extremely slowly these days.

I don't think I would say that...he had FUSION surgery...it take between 8-12 months or more at times for the fusion to be 100% complete....I went to the doc the other day for my 6 month post op visit and was told that I am at 80% fused...which he said was really good...but if the premiss is that as you get older you heal slower, well of course that is correct.

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I don't think I would say that...he had FUSION surgery...it take between 8-12 months or more at times for the fusion to be 100% complete....I went to the doc the other day for my 6 month post op visit and was told that I am at 80% fused...which he said was really good...but if the premiss is that as you get older you heal slower, well of course that is correct.

 

Age is certainly a factor as is keeping a player on the active roster all year thinking he would be able to play at some point. He is not remotely close to playing as he just started throwing the ball. Even when you watch him he has signs of the process going slowly. When he turns, even casually, he does it with his body not like most that turn their head. It could be just a protection habit but he does not look close to NFL ready to me.

 

I guess we will all know sooner than later. It is after all the 28 million dollar question. :wacko:

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Age is certainly a factor as is keeping a player on the active roster all year thinking he would be able to play at some point. He is not remotely close to playing as he just started throwing the ball. Even when you watch him he has signs of the process going slowly. When he turns, even casually, he does it with his body not like most that turn their head. It could be just a protection habit but he does not look close to NFL ready to me.

 

I guess we will all know sooner than later. It is after all the 28 million dollar question. :wacko:

honestly that was sheer stupidity...he had FUSION surgery...and I know he gets much better care/therapy than I get, but you can't make bone fuse faster because you have more money etc...as for his movement, if you had fusion surgery you would completely understand how and why he moves like he does...and something that I haven't heard talked about is that he will most certainly lose some range of motion in his neck...something that could prove problematic if and when he ever plays again.

 

I posted this before but for those that may have missed it this is an animated video of the fusion surgery that Manning had: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsYyVtBph7E

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honestly that was sheer stupidity...he had FUSION surgery...and I know he gets much better care/therapy than I get, but you can't make bone fuse faster because you have more money etc...as for his movement, if you had fusion surgery you would completely understand how and why he moves like he does...and something that I haven't heard talked about is that he will most certainly lose some range of motion in his neck...something that could prove problematic if and when he ever plays again.

 

I posted this before but for those that may have missed it this is an animated video of the fusion surgery that Manning had: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsYyVtBph7E

 

I have actually sat through many fusion surgeries. Thankfully I have never had to go through it myself. The thing about recovery and recovery times has much to do with the aggressive nature one rehabs and even more to do with the degenerative nature of the discs themselves. My biggest concern with Manning is how fast his body may be aging internally. He has had considerable upper back/neck issues and the pounding and shear movement over time could be a factor.

 

I too thought keeping him active was crazy but given the intensity of training and strengthening rehab someone obviously thought he had a pretty good chance of a faster than average recovery. That obviously has not happened.

 

If he is having degenerative issues it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he hangs it up do to impact blow issues.

 

Not a fun surgery and not a fun recovery for sure. I have been watching him closely mainly because I have seen so many surgeries and the surgeons I have talked with about the procedure say the biggest complaints from all that have fusions are mobility related.

 

It is amazing how many people go to pain clinics for injection therapy after fusions. Not sure why so many still suffer as the surgery is designed to stop pain but the spine holds the nerve centers and tons of pain receptors are in play. When you see some of the workmanship via the C-Arm near the injection points it is easy to see who knew what they were doing.

 

The medical joke is if 10 doctors are in a room you can always tell the back surgeon because he will be the one without the scar.... Very tough surgery indeed.

 

I hope yours went great and you suffer no pain. It seems a fairly high percentage, my guess 5%, still have constant pain.

Edited by Ice1
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ya know, keeping him on the 53 man roster isn't really that big a deal. I mean, he wasn't taking the roster spot of the #27 guy, he was taking the roster spot of the #54 guy who got left on the practice squad and some other guy didn't make the practice squad. Since IND can't have all 53 guys active on game day anyways, it's not like a guy who was really supposed to be on the field wasn't.

 

Agree but it is rare to keep a player on an active roster that can't play. Teams covet all on a roster for special teams and/or depth at certain positions not mention developmental reasons. When you move a player to IR you get to add back a player given IR players don't count.

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Saturday, Clark, etc are still playing at a high level.

 

Ordinarily, I agree. But this is a unique situation and Manning a very unique QB. The Colts live and die with him. Despite being half-ass if that in so many ways, he has shown time and again he can take them to the playoffs and beyond. The running game has sucked for years and he and NEVER had a great D. Barely average if that to flamingly pathetic. So Freeney being a year older and losing a step IMO is a drop in the puddle compared to having or not having Manning. Not like the D is going to carry them, to say the least. Often it's been a liability. Yet every year there they were in the playoffs.

I should have stopped reading here. Granted, in 2010, Clark missed 10 games, but he only missed 5 this year and his catches and yards per game were way down from 2009 levels. Injured? Yes. But that sort of starts to happen when you get old.

 

I don't think anyone is doubting that a healthy Manning would make this team significantly better than what we saw last year. And, in that division, 10 wins seems to be enough. None the less, as you have stated, the cast around Manning has never been all that. Now they're not all that, minus a few pieces and the remaining pieces are getting older. So, the ceiling is lower. If you truly want to tie up the kind of money in a QB that will seriously impede your ability to address the growing and massive concerns on your roster, a QB who is coming off multiple neck procedures, no less, have at it. I'm sure you can milk a few more 9 and 10 win seasons and, provided Houston is down to their 3rd string QB again the next few years, that might get you a few more play-off runs.

 

The good news is that the AFC seems to be taking its place as the minor league again, so what the hell.

Edited by detlef
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Agree but it is rare to keep a player on an active roster that can't play. Teams covet all on a roster for special teams and/or depth at certain positions not mention developmental reasons. When you move a player to IR you get to add back a player given IR players don't count.

 

It could be that IND knew it was going to suck ass so badly and still wanted to put butts in the seats.

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I should have stopped reading here. Granted, in 2010, Clark missed 10 games, but he only missed 5 this year and his catches and yards per game were way down from 2009 levels. Injured? Yes. But that sort of starts to happen when you get old.

 

I don't think anyone is doubting that a healthy Manning would make this team significantly better than what we saw last year. And, in that division, 10 wins seems to be enough. None the less, as you have stated, the cast around Manning has never been all that. Now they're not all that, minus a few pieces and the remaining pieces are getting older. So, the ceiling is lower. If you truly want to tie up the kind of money in a QB that will seriously impede your ability to address the growing and massive concerns on your roster, a QB who is coming off multiple neck procedures, no less, have at it. I'm sure you can milk a few more 9 and 10 win seasons and, provided Houston is down to their 3rd string QB again the next few years, that might get you a few more play-off runs.

 

The good news is that the AFC seems to be taking its place as the minor league again, so what the hell.

 

Which is why I think some indlucing Beer are saying if Manning is healthy and can perform on par with the past (or close to it) and same for the other supporting cast, why not keep going and take a few more shots at the playoffs. If they don't keep him, sign Luck to start now, and retain the rest of the surrounding cast, and improve in some areas are their chances better at a SB win short term? Or even long term? (Provided if they keep Manning they're also drafting Luck.)

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