Sturphy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm actually pretty surprised by the defense that Hue Jackson is getting in this thread. One year or five years, the guy blew his chance, new GM or not. He had the AFC West on a platter and could not deliver. And on top of blowing it, he's been a blow hard and spouting off to the media all sorts of self-important crap. I say flush the Al Davis overhead projectors, bad juju, and all other semblance of the archaic football methodology. As a Packer fan that watches the team very closely (that was for BB ) I've read nothing but solid things about McKenzie and Winston Moss over the years. Frankly, if Reggie gets the stamp from Ron Wolf, who was a part of the hiring process apparently, that's enough for me. If the Raiders get both guys, expect greatness for a team that has been handicapped for too long. I'm not a Raiders fan, but I am a fan of redemption and the classic teams. They fall into both categories for me. Now... can Holmgren fix the Brownies already?... yeesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 New GM New Coach, Any day now New City, Any year now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yep, Idiocy to fire a coach who's team led the league in penalties, as well as fell apart massively late in the season. Complete idiocy. Try taking a look at their roster and the injuries (esp the QB position) and noting how they still just missed a division title and get back to me. I'm not saying he's great. Just that to use "I want my guy" as a reason to fire someone is stupid. I don't see the GM citing any of the reasons y'all are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I saw some of the GM's press conference on NFLN last night and got a good chuckle. Maybe he's smarter than he seems, but man, that guy as my team's GM would not fill me with confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yep, Idiocy to fire a coach who's team led the league in penalties, as well as fell apart massively late in the season. Complete idiocy. I believe this is the key. I railed earlier about the utter lack of accountability on this team, and they go out and set even more records for penalties and defensive lapses. Hue is the lamb that just got sacrificed. I'm pretty much 50/50 on this decision - you could build a case either way. They had a pretty good amount of success in context of their talent/injury situation, but there were some absolute debacles laid down - Buffalo, New England, Miami, KC1, Green Bay, Detroit, San Diego. Not all of those games were necessarily winnable, but they were embarrassments for an assortment of reasons. You can't embarrass your organization 7 times a year (4 of last 5) and expect to remain employed. Because the GM wants "his guy." Egotistical idiocy IMO. Not at all unusual. You need to have the GM and coach on the same page in terms of what kind of players they want, coaches, systems, etc. Look at any successful reign in the NFL - Packers currently, Colts and Patriots for the last 10 years, Steelers since forever - and you find harmony between the front office and coach. A good GM will work with a coach to get the kind of players he wants, but also operate within a reasonable economic structure - everyone wants Rodgers and AP and Andre Johnson and Roddy White, but you just can't get them all. You don't draft WR's in the first round for 7 straight seasons if you are a ground and pound running team. I'm not saying he's great. Just that to use "I want my guy" as a reason to fire someone is stupid. I don't see the GM citing any of the reasons y'all are. Sure he did, he just did it in GM-ese. "There comes a time when change is necessary. For the Raiders, that time is now. The Raiders organization, with respect and deference for all its tradition and history, is about to embark on a new era." There comes a time when change is necessary. = we're not going to keep losing football games with our heads. For the Raiders, that time is now. = because up until now, no one currently in place has enforced this The Raiders organization, with respect and deference for all its tradition and history, is about to embark on a new era. = I need people here that are not tainted by the stink that Al Davis's last 10 years has left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm actually pretty surprised by the defense that Hue Jackson is getting in this thread. One year or five years, the guy blew his chance, new GM or not. He had the AFC West on a platter and could not deliver. And on top of blowing it, he's been a blow hard and spouting off to the media all sorts of self-important crap. I say flush the Al Davis overhead projectors, bad juju, and all other semblance of the archaic football methodology. As a Packer fan that watches the team very closely (that was for BB ) I've read nothing but solid things about McKenzie and Winston Moss over the years. Frankly, if Reggie gets the stamp from Ron Wolf, who was a part of the hiring process apparently, that's enough for me. If the Raiders get both guys, expect greatness for a team that has been handicapped for too long. I'm not a Raiders fan, but I am a fan of redemption and the classic teams. They fall into both categories for me. Now... can Holmgren fix the Brownies already?... yeesh. That's the question here. Seahawk fans were telling us "He isn't a good GM or player personnel guy, great head coach though." They way some things have played out in his first 2 years makes me wonder if he'll have success here. Shurmur isn't terrible, but has made some really bad decisions in his first year. Hopefully we can rebound but I'm getting less optimistic every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I really liked Hue Jackson. then i saw the end of the year comments where he threw his team under the bus and implied he would help pick the next GM. Now I am not a fan. I think he did very well considering what he was given, and the injuries they sustained. weak WRs, the starting QB and RB hurt, they lost gallery and their best DB to free agency, and still came within a whisker of the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffraff Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Seemed like Hue was trying to become the face of the franchise once Al passed on. Probably not what the new ownership wanted. As luck would have it, the week 17 loss ensured they didn't give up the conditional 1st round pick in the Palmer trade. Still a 2nd rounder, but that's easy enough to swallow when getting a franchise QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh B Tool Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) He deserved the axe by openly talking like he was the one with the power, throwing his players under the bus, and acting like he was untouchable. Let alone being the most penalized team evah in the NFL, Add to that the total collapse the last five games, it was totally called for. The fact that this is the first real GM the Raiders have had in forever, it makes total sense. Wish they would get Chuckie back in the fold. Edited January 12, 2012 by Hugh B Tool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'm curious, when Al passed away who was in charge? Was Hue given control and told "go out and do what you need to build a winner". Because if that's the case (and I don't remember any strong football person stepping in to fill the void left by Al), then of course the guy got a swelled head and thought he was untouchable. What coach wouldn't assume they have control of the team in that situation. Its like like he drove a stake through Al's heart and then took over control from somebody who should have been in charge. I understand starting over, but it often means taking a step back. As I said previously, look at the teams near the top, most of them have some stability somewhere (HC, GM, etc). Look at those near the bottom every year, they either have no stability anywhere, or a terrible person in charge for a long time (the Millen years in Detroit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I think Hue tried to fill the void when Al passed away becasue his son is a weakling. That came back to bite him on the arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh2 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Here is an article about the son being weak from Yahoo. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ahaf...rk_davis_011112 Back in the spring of 2008, when he was very much in charge of the Oakland Raiders’ singularly peculiar organization, Al Davis presided over a predraft meeting at the team’s Alameda, Calif., training facility. As coaches and personnel officials discussed what to do with the fourth overall pick, which the team would ultimately use to select Arkansas halfback Darren McFadden, the Hall of Fame owner’s son, Mark, casually drifted into the room. “Mark,” Davis said, stopping the meeting and sounding genuinely interested. “What do you think we should do?” Caught off guard, the younger Davis mumbled something about needing a wide receiver. Wrong answer. “A [expletive] receiver?” Al Davis snapped, his voice rising. “Get the [expletive] out of here.” And with that, the heir to one of the NFL’s most storied franchises slinked out of the room and continued with the rest of his day. I cite this incident not to illustrate that Al Davis had a mean streak and did not suffer fools gladly, even when the fool in question was his only child. Nor is it necessary as a means of proving that Mark Davis doesn’t know much about personnel – he essentially admitted that Tuesday at the news conference announcing the hiring of general manager Reggie McKenzie (a potentially sound move) and the firing of head coach Hue Jackson (an astonishingly dumb one). No, the reason I share this story – which was related to me by a former member of the Raiders’ coaching staff who witnessed it – is to explain why I think the younger Davis made a coaching change after Jackson’s promising, 8-8 rookie season: To project an image of authority, Mark Davis needs to surround himself with employees who didn’t see him routinely disparaged and condescended to by his legendary father. “We were all in that room,” the ex-Raiders assistant coach said, referring to the aforementioned draft meeting. “We saw Mark get kicked out like a little [expletive] puppy dog, in front of everyone.” Another former Raiders coach said that he “saw [Al Davis] tell Mark to ‘shut the [expletive] up’ all the time. It was a regular occurrence. He treated him like his opinion didn’t matter.” It matters now, and has mattered since Oct. 8, when Al Davis died of congestive heart failure at the age of 82. That Mark Davis would assume his father’s role as nominal owner was part of the succession plan, but this was not a man being groomed as Al 2.0. As numerous Raiders insiders will attest, that ship had sailed – and crashed and burned – a long time ago. Some owners’ offspring, such as the Patriots’ Jonathan Kraft, the Cincinnati Bengals’ Katie Blackburn and the Pittsburgh Steelers’ Art Rooney II, are shrewd, engaged presences entrusted to operate their respective franchises at the highest levels. Others, such as the Indianapolis Colts’ Jimmy Irsay and the 49ers’ Jed York, inherit ownership and obviously outshine their parents. Mark Davis is Tommy Boy, trying not to face-plant on a table full of beers. And the thought of presiding over a team with a brash, intelligent and charismatic coach who knew how dismissively his father used to treat him had to be a daunting prospect. So, in my opinion, Davis did what many bosses do when they feel threatened by someone with a superior skill set and an aversion to brown-nosing: He kneecapped Jackson. And I suspect that the owner will encourage McKenzie to clean out as many people on the football side of the building as he can, if only to start fresh with a new crop of employees who don’t have visceral images of his inglorious past. On a positive note, he didn’t botch his first hire. McKenzie is a Ron Wolf protégé who had a long, highly regarded stint in the Packers’ front office, and on paper he is a good choice. McKenzie claimed at Tuesday’s news conference that he was the one who wanted to get rid of Jackson, and I’m not necessarily questioning that – it’s possible that both the GM and owner wanted the coach gone, or that the latter gave clear and obvious signals to the former during their interview. Now, about that interview process: I like that the great John Madden, whom I respect as much as I do anyone in football, and other experienced NFL executives (Wolf and former Falcons general manager Ken Herock) were advising Davis. As I said, I don’t believe the outcome was necessarily bad. However, Davis said during Tuesday’s media session that he had conducted one interview, a six-hour visit with McKenzie, before making his decision. One candidate? Seriously? If this was merely a case of a new business executive wanting to bring in his own people, then how overmatched is Davis in the big chair? There are so many talented personnel executives with GM potential in this league, it’s not even funny. Some of them aggressively pursued the vacant Raiders job, eager to land an interview and persuade Davis that they were the right choice to run the franchise. By way of comparison, the 49ers’ York had pretty much settled on internal candidate Trent Baalke as his next general manager last year. However, York still went through the interview process, meeting with several experienced and highly regarded external candidates, if only to do due diligence and prepare himself for his next hire. And Davis? He had a single meeting with a single candidate and handed him the keys – as well as the all-important choice over who should coach the team. In my opinion, and that of many other respected NFL executives and coaches to whom I’ve spoken, the new coaching hire is likely to be a downgrade. While Jackson wasn’t perfect, he is an exceptional play-caller who did wonders with the previously pathetic offense he inherited as Tom Cable’s coordinator in 2010 – and who created an upbeat, aggressive atmosphere that brought out the fire in many of his players (including veteran defensive end Richard Seymour, who stuck up for Jackson in my column Tuesday). Yes, the Raiders made too many mistakes, setting NFL single-season records for penalties and penalty yards, and yes, they came out flat in a couple of important games this year. Jackson’s bold public comments may have gotten him in trouble, and his willingness to fill the short-term power vacuum after Al Davis’ death (and his push to acquire Carson Palmer in a trade with the Bengals) might have chafed owners far more impressive than the one who fired him. With all of that said, many people see Jackson as a rising star in this profession, and I am one of them. That may not interest you, but this should: Someone who felt even more strongly about Jackson’s potential was Al Davis, who hired him to salvage Cable’s pathetic offense and then enthusiastically entrusted him with the whole operation. Jackson likes to reference his conversations with the late owner too much for some people’s tastes, but the fact is he was being groomed to be a powerful head coach who understood the Raider Way. In that sense, he was being treated more like an heir than Mark Davis was – think Maximus and Commodus in “Gladiator” – another understandable source of tension and insecurity for the man on the wrong end of that equation. For that reason, more than one person familiar with the late owner’s mindset told me Tuesday that, as Mark Davis sat at the podium and discussed Jackson’s dismissal, “Al was rolling over in his grave.” At one point during the session, Davis answered a question about whether his father had left behind any instructions on running the franchise. Davis explained that he “used to talk to my dad on the phone every night … and talk about football and the organization and things of that nature.” A few seconds later, the lights went out, and a movie screen eerily descended behind the podium. The only thing missing was an overhead projector – and Al’s ghostly image appearing onscreen, pointing a finger at his son and ordering him to “get the [expletive] out of here.” Instead, the lights went back on – and the lights officially went out on an era. It’s Tommy Boy’s show now, and he does not suffer intelligent coaches who know his history gladly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I love Michael Silver, one of the best writers in the biz, but this sounds like he's providing an axe-grinding session for the outgoing members of the Raiders organization. The Raiders fans can attest to the idea that Papa Davis had around him a crew of yes men. Why is it a bad thing if Junior gets rid of their influence? It's not like there's a track record of recent success in that front office for him to draw from. Did anyone else read that quote about drafting the WR and think maybe think that Mark Davis might just be a smartass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturphy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Did anyone else read that quote about drafting the WR and think maybe think that Mark Davis might just be a smartass? I went more with "bumbling" and "social anxiety" than smartass. Have you seen him? http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h373/S.../mark-davis.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I went more with "bumbling" and "social anxiety" than smartass. Have you seen him? http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h373/S.../mark-davis.jpg Wait!! That haircut! It's..........no, it can't be. Can it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Pimp Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Is this Al's son? Davis Jr? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Wait!! That haircut! It's..........no, it can't be. Can it? Not grunge, Grunges is short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKIDKOKID Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Is this Al's son? Davis Jr? Bucky Larson was my call too....wow. KO'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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