Packers Offseason

[Ditkaless Wonders]

God I loved you guys but your time has come

 

Chad Clifton - Dude is 35, has had multiple injuries in his career, and his smarts no longer make up for his declining physical ability. He has been a respected presence but his time has come. Let him know now, out of respect, that if he wishes to continue his career elsewhere he can have his unconditional release. We respect him too much to string him along or to try to scrape some very minor trade value out of him. His salary for next year would be around 5.7 million. Cutting him may excelerate his cap number a bit but I would hope there would be some net room created on the cap.

 

Donald Driver- What can you say about Donald. The guy exceeded all expectations and played with class and grace for a long time. He was also the only guy to show up out of the W.R.'s in the last game. The problem is Donald is 36, is going to have a salary figure next year of around 5.6 million, and the Packers have prospects that are pushing for time. Thanks for the memories Donald, but time marches on. His exit should be orchestrated with his immense contributions in mind. Much respect but time to move on. BTW has any team ever had better Donald's than the Packers. We have had Hutson, Driver, Chandler, Anderson, Beebe, Majkowski. The list just keeps on going.

 

I loved you and still might for another year at reduced salaries and roles

 

Charles Woodson - 36 years old and has now clearly lost not one, but rather two steps. If he loses any more he will have lost the makings of a stairway, that's a lot of steps. At a salary of 10.5 million there is no way to justify his presence on the roster. He was great 3 and 4 years ago. He was good two years ago. This year we enjoyed his veteran presence. When you enjoy a guy's veteran presence that is just another way of saying the guy is cooked. That said, the Packer's secondary already has questions with Nick Collin's health. If Woodson would take a cut of his salary he could maybe be kept around, but really it is time to acknowledge he was a great aquisition, is a respected member of the Packer community, but that he should be in the alumni community, not the player community.

 

UFA's who can go away

 

Howard Green - Age 33. Fat is not a profession son. You needed to step up this year with Mike Neal holding the door open for you with his constant injuries. You could not fit through the door and so were no help whatsoever. Even on a team with no d-line presence, and with Picket rapidly aging, you are very expendable. I am not sure you are worth a veteran minimum offer uless you really dedicate yourself in the offseason. Thanks for the two years of service. Personally I like you. I have a warm place in my heart for fat guys going back to Dave Roller and right on through Gilbert Brown.

 

Ryan Grant -29. You can clearly still play. You will attract interest around the league. With Starks, Alex Green, Saine, and Kuhn you will not be coming back. You will be replaced by a guy who can play special teams as well. I will always remember that Seattle game. Never have I seen a guy shake off a rought start like you did in that game. Good luck on the rest of your career.

 

Erick Walden - Dude, poor production and lack of development so that you cannot nail down a role at a noticeably weak position is bad. If you could not find a role here there is none for you. To compound that with off the field drama, whether fair or not, well thanks for playing, I'm sure we will not object to you keeping your practice spamshirts as parting gifts.

 

Overpaid chumps

 

Yes A.J. Hawk I am talking to you. You are slow. You take bad angles. You tackle poorly and never stone a guy in his tracks but rather ride him for three yards before he goes down. You are not worth the 6.5 million you will collect next year. You have never been worth your salary. Were I the G.M. you would be gone unless you took a 50% pay cut. Even then the only reason I would keep you is I couldn't roll over as many L.B. positions in one year as I would like. There is too much work to be done to that unit. Your window, however, even if kept around, would only be one year. You my good man are a bust.

 

This brings up another point. Winston Moss and Kevin Greene seem to enjoy a pretty good rep as developmental coaches. Between them and Capers I must say their reps should take a severe hit given the L.B.ing play Packer fans have been exposed to. We remember Nitschke, Mad Dog Douglas, the Mad Stork, Tim "six gun" Harris, Robinson, Anderson, Harris and others. Shame on all you all for this travesty.

 

Please get healthy

 

Nick Collins, we miss you. I hope your health allows a return.

 

 

Anyhow, with roster under brush cleared out the Packers will be younger, faster, and will be in the position to get on the free agent market. I don't expect to see them go after any offensive players. I do believe it is time again for Thompson to grab a defensive F.A. With salary cap savings from retirements (forced if they need be), cuts, and salary reductions or cuts, the Packers would be in a position to grab Mario Williams. That would be awesome, but I just don't see it happening. When, every few years, TT decides to go for a F.A. it tends to be second tier guys, not guys like Williams.

 

I believe the Packers would be well served to make a play for Okoye, Pouha, Jason Jones, or Garay to shore up the D-line. If they could get one of those guys and then maybe Jarret Johnson, Curtis Lofton, or Dan Conner at L.B. the Packers would then be in a position to continue with their successful philosophy of BPA in the draft as their needs would not be so glaring and in need of service.

 

I do expect that BPA be interpreted this year to be heavily weighted to the defensive side of the ball. We need a rush. We gots to have it.

 

Finally, I would spend the offseason feeding So'oto a steady diet of fresh pineapple, raw beef, and SGH (Somoan Growth Hormone - its like HGH only superior) and traing him in the wilds of Borneo with nothing to listen to but the pounding of war drums. Dude has the physical tools to jump several levels with a dedicated offseason, and lord knows the Packer defense needs an infusion of ferocious.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Ditkaless Wonders

[bpwallace49]

In retrospect I would have let hawk go last year, resign the DT we let go to Philly and started Smith

 

I really want to see a bishop/ smith ILB look. The guy did great when he played this year.

 

Disagree on driver, think he is the glue in that grouP IMO he has one year left.

 

You left out Finley I notice. :th

[bpwallace49]

In retrospect I would have let hawk go last year, resign the DT we let go to Philly and started Smith

 

I really want to see a bishop/ smith ILB look. The guy did great when he played this year.

 

Disagree on driver, think he is the glue in that grouP IMO he has one year left.

 

You left out Finley I notice.

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Finnley troubles me. He had one good preseason, two or three good games two years ago, and one good game this year. He has all the tools to be great, but his attitude, his drops, and his viewing himself as not just a top 5 T.E., but worthy of W.R. money makes me think he should be let go. I know, however, that if he is let go that will be the wake-up call he needs and he will haunt the Packers for years. He is a damned if you do and damned if you don't guy.

 

In the end I support his resigning or franchising him. I just hope that they make immediate progress with he or Wells because with both of them uncertain the franchise tag option becomes complicated.

 

As for Donald I love the guy. Sure he can still play in the league. The problem is Jones needs more playing time to improve. Also Cobb and Gurley both are worthy of playing time and need it to develop.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Ditkaless Wonders

[btfndguy]

What do you Packer fans think of the chances of Alex Green playing a significant role next year?

[Big John]

What do you Packer fans think of the chances of Alex Green playing a significant role next year?

I don't see then retaining Grant, so Green may get some playing time, but I see ham more as a 3rd-down back.

[piratesownninjas]

I don't see then retaining Grant, so Green may get some playing time, but I see ham more as a 3rd-down back.

I think he's behind Starks and Saine. I also think that they don't have a real runningback on the roster.

[Chavez]

What do you Packer fans think of the chances of Alex Green playing a significant role next year?

 

 

I'm worried about that knee.

 

 

Speaking of knees, what did they ever say about Kuhn's injury? Looked pretty rough. EDIT - NM, found the answer myself, sprained MCL be OK in 4-6 wks.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Chavez

[Chavez]

God I loved you guys but your time has come

 

Donald Driver- What can you say about Donald. The guy exceeded all expectations and played with class and grace for a long time. He was also the only guy to show up out of the W.R.'s in the last game. The problem is Donald is 36, is going to have a salary figure next year of around 5.6 million, and the Packers have prospects that are pushing for time. Thanks for the memories Donald, but time marches on. His exit should be orchestrated with his immense contributions in mind. Much respect but time to move on. BTW has any team ever had better Donald's than the Packers. We have had Hutson, Driver, Chandler, Anderson, Beebe, Majkowski. The list just keeps on going.

 

I loved you and still might for another year at reduced salaries and roles

 

Charles Woodson - 36 years old and has now clearly lost not one, but rather two steps. If he loses any more he will have lost the makings of a stairway, that's a lot of steps. At a salary of 10.5 million there is no way to justify his presence on the roster. He was great 3 and 4 years ago. He was good two years ago. This year we enjoyed his veteran presence. When you enjoy a guy's veteran presence that is just another way of saying the guy is cooked. That said, the Packer's secondary already has questions with Nick Collin's health. If Woodson would take a cut of his salary he could maybe be kept around, but really it is time to acknowledge he was a great aquisition, is a respected member of the Packer community, but that he should be in the alumni community, not the player community.

 

UFA's who can go away

 

Ryan Grant -29. You can clearly still play. You will attract interest around the league. With Starks, Alex Green, Saine, and Kuhn you will not be coming back. You will be replaced by a guy who can play special teams as well. I will always remember that Seattle game. Never have I seen a guy shake off a rought start like you did in that game. Good luck on the rest of your career.

 

Overpaid chumps

 

Yes A.J. Hawk I am talking to you.

 

This brings up another point. Winston Moss and Kevin Greene seem to enjoy a pretty good rep as developmental coaches. Between them and Capers I must say their reps should take a severe hit given the L.B.ing play Packer fans have been exposed to. We remember Nitschke, Mad Dog Douglas, the Mad Stork, Tim "six gun" Harris, Robinson, Anderson, Harris and others. Shame on all you all for this travesty.

 

 

In order -

 

- I think all GB is with you - I LOVE Driver. I don't love him at $5+ million. You have to think/hope that his work ethic rubbed off on guys like Jennings (who would become the de facto leader of the WR crew) and Nelson. I'm one of those who thinks James Jones gets inexplicably overhated. I think with the playing time he was given, he did about as well as could be expected this season.

 

- Woodson - they are kicking around the idea of moving him to S, I hear, if Collins is unable to return. I think Woodson, even though he is a step or two slow, is still a difference-maker, due to his toughness, desire, and anticipation. But I'd agree that if he slips any more, he's really going to be a liability out there. Question - is it just me, or does Jarrett Bush do a passable job at Woodson's "rover" position? He's gone from a total liability from scrimmage to being, I dare say, a bit of an asset. Never going to be a Def MVP, but physical at the line and seems to make good plays more often than he gets burned

 

- I could see Ryan Grant sticking around, if no one bids him up - Starks is talented but unreliable, Green is coming off a knee injury, and do you want to back up those two question marks with an undrafted free agent like Brandon Saine?

 

- AJ Hawk is the same sort of player Nick Barnett was - I call them garbage collecters - they don't play downhill, and while assignment-sure, the best you can generally hope for is they're the guy that keeps a 5 yd gain from busting into a 20 yd gain. I don't have anything necessarily against Hawk, I think he plays hard, he just isn't very good. Let me give +1 to the Bishop/Smith ILB tandem - they both play downhill and arrive at the ball in ill humor. That's what you want to see in your ILBs.

 

- the thing with the LBs (OLBs in particular) is that they've had guys come in and look promising - Brad Jones, Zombo, and Walden have ALL had moments where you think "yeah, this guy could be the answer" - only to be derailed by injuries (Jones), unexplained regression in performance (Walden), or both (Zombo).

[Ditkaless Wonders]

My hope right now is that the Packers can find a way to get some value for Flynn beyond that which they would get as a compensatory pick. My understanding is that if Flynn signs elsewhere as an UFA that the Packers would likely get a third round pick in 2013. Anything above that in a sign and trade scenario would be a net gain on expectation and should be viewed as a victory. Now I have seen discussion that the Packers should triangulate this much as the Patriots did with Cassel. I have seen other discussion that they should franchise him and go for more hoping his value is a first rounder and perhaps more. I love watching some compare his value to Kolb's price or to Palmer's. I also find the Philbin connection interesting. Certainly he may want someone familiar with his offense and he may not want the uncertainty of a bidding war. What I do not know, and I have not yet heard Philbin opine on is his impression of Flynn. I assume he is impressed with him, but that is assumption only. I do know I am impressed with Flynn.

 

The risk/reward arguments are interesting, but if they can do better than a 3rd rounder one year removed I would count that a positive.

[tazinib1]

BTW has any team ever had better Donald's than the Packers. We have had Hutson, Driver, Chandler, Anderson, Beebe, Majkowski. The list just keeps on going.

 

 

 

[piratesownninjas]

This brings up another point. Winston Moss and Kevin Greene seem to enjoy a pretty good rep as developmental coaches. Between them and Capers I must say their reps should take a severe hit given the L.B.ing play Packer fans have been exposed to. We remember Nitschke, Mad Dog Douglas, the Mad Stork, Tim "six gun" Harris, Robinson, Anderson, Harris and others. Shame on all you all for this travesty.

Not sure it's fair to fault Greene or Moss. Matthews didn't have the sack numbers that you'd want, but he pressured the QB a ton, and did it while being double, or a lot of the time, triple teamed. DJ Smith, and Francois looked good whenever they took reps, which speaks toward the development of the youngsters. Bishop was the only player against the Giants that played 100mph and made things happen. Zombo wasn't healthy at any point, and Walden by his actions off the field and missed assignments makes me think he's not smart or doesn't do the work in the film room to be the answer.

 

I'm the biggest Ted Thompson backer on the boards, but he gambled massively in the draft by going offense with Sherrod/Cobb, and placing a lot of trust in Mike Neal. He lost massively on both gambles.

[piratesownninjas]

My hope right now is that the Packers can find a way to get some value for Flynn beyond that which they would get as a compensatory pick. My understanding is that if Flynn signs elsewhere as an UFA that the Packers would likely get a third round pick in 2013. Anything above that in a sign and trade scenario would be a net gain on expectation and should be viewed as a victory. Now I have seen discussion that the Packers should triangulate this much as the Patriots did with Cassel. I have seen other discussion that they should franchise him and go for more hoping his value is a first rounder and perhaps more. I love watching some compare his value to Kolb's price or to Palmer's. I also find the Philbin connection interesting. Certainly he may want someone familiar with his offense and he may not want the uncertainty of a bidding war. What I do not know, and I have not yet heard Philbin opine on is his impression of Flynn. I assume he is impressed with him, but that is assumption only. I do know I am impressed with Flynn.

 

The risk/reward arguments are interesting, but if they can do better than a 3rd rounder one year removed I would count that a positive.

I have a few problems here... If Flynn is tagged, and they don't find a trade partner, he's making more than Aaron Rodgers. Not saying it would be an issue, but it's possible.

 

Of the three UFA's, I see him as a distant third behind Scott Wells and JerMichael Finley. Scott Wells needs to be signed long term, and hopefully that gets done asap. Finley drives me absolutely crazy, but he's better than anyone they could bring in. Of course, if you're sure you can get a high draft pick for Flynn then go for it.

[Chavez]

I'm telling you, be crazy like a fox - trade RODGERS and sign Flynn long-term. You'd get a king's ransom for Rodgers and be able to replenish the D.

[piratesownninjas]

I'm telling you, be crazy like a fox - trade RODGERS and sign Flynn long-term. You'd get a king's ransom for Rodgers and be able to replenish the D.

[Chavez]

 

 

Tell me I'm wrong about Rodgers' value - he will never play better than he did this season, and his value will never be higher. Unless Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Phillip Rivers all die in a plane crash or something.

[piratesownninjas]

Tell me I'm wrong about Rodgers' value - he will never play better than he did this season, and his value will never be higher. Unless Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Phillip Rivers all die in a plane crash or something.

He's probably the best qb in the league right now, and is 28 years old. Matt Flynn is a career backup who played against a poor defense in Detroit. But sure, trade the best player on the team away, and keep a massive question mark. New England should have traded Brady and kept Cassell. Makes sense.

And Philip Rivers doesn't belong in the same sentence as Rodgers, Brady, and Brees.

[Big John]

And Philip Rivers doesn't belong in the same sentence as Rodgers, Brady, and Brees.

But according to some posters, add Eli, Stafford or Slip Romo

[Chavez]

And Philip Rivers doesn't belong in the same sentence as Rodgers, Brady, and Brees.

He should be ranked higher, because they've been coached by McCarthy, Belicheck, and Payton while Rivers has had to make do with Norv Turner.

[piratesownninjas]

But according to some posters, add Eli, Stafford or Slip Romo

Like I said last week...

Eli=Hyperbole. Two weeks ago those same people were saying Eli was average.

Stafford=One season that he's stayed healthy. Do it a few more years and he may be.

Romo=Second tier. Very good, but not on that elite level.

 

All of those guys are very good, but Brady, Rodgers, and Brees are on another level. What they've done over the past 3-4 years is what separates them from the others.

[bpwallace49]

But according to some posters, add Eli, Stafford or Slip Romo

 

It isn't slip romo. It is just slip. He gets one name street Cred, just like Cher, Madonna , and the rest of the soft divas.

[piratesownninjas]

He should be ranked higher, because they've been coached by McCarthy, Belicheck, and Payton while Rivers has had to make do with Norv Turner.

I thought you were serious earlier. Now I see you're just messing around.

[stethant]

Tell me I'm wrong about Rodgers' value - he will never play better than he did this season, and his value will never be higher. Unless Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Phillip Rivers all die in a plane crash or something.

You'd never get true value for him in a trade. If the team around him was terrible, a la Indy, then maybe I could see it.

 

Trading Rodgers is the kind of mistake they talk about for a century, or longer. See Babe Ruth.

[piratesownninjas]

You'd never get true value for him in a trade. If the team around him was terrible, a la Indy, then maybe I could see it.

 

Trading Rodgers is the kind of mistake they talk about for a century, or longer. See Babe Ruth.

Yep. I don't see the Chargers willing to trade Rivers/Mathews/1st for him.

[Chavez]

You'd never get true value for him in a trade. If the team around him was terrible, a la Indy, then maybe I could see it.

 

Trading Rodgers is the kind of mistake they talk about for a century, or longer. See Babe Ruth.

 

 

The trick is to trade him to a team with a crappy OL so he has to retire because of a concussion sometime in the next year or two - then you get off the hook with a "wow, our GM dodged a bullet with that one! HE'S A GENIUS!"