stevegrab Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Filthy rich? I'm not saying that Peyton Manning doesn't have a comfortable life ahead of him regardless of whether he crouches behind a center again or not, but it's $28million. That's a lot of dough. That's way more money than he's going to make the remainder of his career. There are a lot of business managers, accountants, lawyers, and agents who work for him that get a healthy cut of that too, so it's not exactly the individual player who has the interest in getting the Colts on board. Not to mention the principle at play with Manning giving a hometown discount in the first year of his new contract last season so the team could sign players with the late FA period and still be under the cap. In exchange for this, he took this balloon payment in 2012 (and I think 2013). I never said the doctor's statements are false or that he's hiring quacks. He's being cleared by his doctors for football related activities, which is a little different than the Colts doctors clearing him for football related activities. He's due $28mil from the Colts March 8th. That's way more money than he's going to get from anyone else. Of course he's going to do everything he can to promote the fact he's healthy. My original point was to revisit his motivation for playing for another team for another couple of seasons once the $28mil is off the table. I'm guessing he's probably willing to play again, but there's a lot of health issues at work here and things may not be so cut and dry when there's not the motivation of all that cash sitting out there. I'm curious what you think a team will pay Peyton if he is released and becomes a free agent? Won't there still be several (10s) millions on the table to continue to play. Similar or same motivation as if the Colts keep him? Or are you saying he'd be willing to stick with the Colts, collect that $28 million in March and then never play in the NFL again? Basically cashing in on that $28 million with no risk involved? If so that I cannot believe, I think Peyton is above doing that to the team. I guess I just don't believe all those who suddenly think Peyton is some evil guy scheming and manipulating the whole situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'm not sure how people justify these often adamant preconceived notions about other people that they don't know. "Peyton's [or insert another name] classy. Oh, he wouldn't do that " or the like, said by someone who doesn't know the guy and doesn't even know anyone who knows the guy in the least. I like to think that I'm as classy and honest as the next guy. But if I could string out a surgery for awhile without too much risk of a significant injury for a big payday, particularly if I thought that I may never work again, you're damn right I'm going to do it. And I would expect any normal person to do that. Your heroes are human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I guess I just don't believe all those who suddenly think Peyton is some evil guy scheming and manipulating the whole situation. Is anyone saying that? He's potentially due $28mil from an organization that has virtually zero incentive to give it to him. Do you get that? That's the highest single season amount of money ever paid an NFL player (and resting behind only Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and Alex Rodriguez, for a team sport athlete). That's probably double what he'll make on the open market as a 36 yr old coming off a neck/nerve injury that made him miss a whole season. Manning can't control whether or not Irsay will be loyal to the best player the franchise has ever had and honor the contract he signed with him, but he can sort of influence whether the organization has faith in his ability to effectively return to the football field at his age with his health problems if his doctors promote the idea that he's OK to return. There's nothing evil, scheming, or manipulative about the whole situation. Manning's doing what he can to make sure he gets paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) He went to Europe in September for a stem cell treatment for his neck that hasn't been approved by the FDA. Don't want to turn this into a political discussion but I have been in the healthcare industry for 20 plus years and getting anything through the FDA is a monumental and time consuming task. Stem cell therapy in particular is a political football so to speak. What this treatment is most likely a simple injection, much like a steroid injection in the shoulder to avoid surgery, designed to promote faster healing but that is just a guess. It does show IMO he really wants to get back to playing football. Then again it may be no better than taking a vitamin. I just wouldn't classify this as surgery as it is most likely closer to getting a flu shot by comparison. That is interesting though. The multi-million dollar question is will his nerve regenerate to a point it does not negatively impact his play? That remains unknown to we the masses at this point. Edited February 6, 2012 by Ice1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorttynaz Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Been a couple of weeks and this story seems like it's picking up some speed. Manning is all but out of Indy. He met with Larry Fitzgerald this past weekend just to "talk". The Colts may owe Manning a huge roster bonus, but the Cardinals owe Kevin Kolb a nice dime in a few weeks as well. If they're in the Manning sweepstakes, rumor (again local radio) has it that the Cardinals are more than willing to cut ties with Kolb and bring in Manning, who has come out and said that he will play for next to nothing when it comes to "guaranteed" money - he's content structuring a contract loaded with performance bonuses and such. If he plays anywhere in 2012, he's gonna be playing in the desert throwing pickles to Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Roberts with a young and healthy Ryan Williams blocking for him in the backfield. Don't be shocked folks when he signs in the desert. What I WISH he would do is let the Colts release him and then turn around and sign a performance based contract with Indy! Edited February 6, 2012 by Shorttynaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Is anyone saying that? He's potentially due $28mil from an organization that has virtually zero incentive to give it to him. Do you get that? That's the highest single season amount of money ever paid an NFL player (and resting behind only Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and Alex Rodriguez, for a team sport athlete). That's probably double what he'll make on the open market as a 36 yr old coming off a neck/nerve injury that made him miss a whole season. Manning can't control whether or not Irsay will be loyal to the best player the franchise has ever had and honor the contract he signed with him, but he can sort of influence whether the organization has faith in his ability to effectively return to the football field at his age with his health problems if his doctors promote the idea that he's OK to return. There's nothing evil, scheming, or manipulative about the whole situation. Manning's doing what he can to make sure he gets paid. I guess we have to agree to disagree. I don't think Peyton is a saint. But I do think that statements some people are making about what they think he is doing (including your assumption that he is being less than honest with his "cleared to play" statement) are baseless and paint Peyton as something he has not shown himself to be throughout his career. Yes I fully understand the Colts have very little reason to pay him the $28 million. I also believe that if that happens, it is not going to change Peyton's desire to return, or ability to return based on his health. The way I read you take, once the $28 million is not paid and he's released he'll admit he really isn't able to play and retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What this treatment is most likely a simple injection, much like a steroid injection in the shoulder to avoid surgery, designed to promote faster healing but that is just a guess. It does show IMO he really wants to get back to playing football. Then again it may be no better than taking a vitamin. I just wouldn't classify this as surgery as it is most likely closer to getting a flu shot by comparison. It was an injection of fat cells. And I called it a procedure, not a surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I guess we have to agree to disagree. I don't think Peyton is a saint. But I do think that statements some people are making about what they think he is doing (including your assumption that he is being less than honest with his "cleared to play" statement) are baseless and paint Peyton as something he has not shown himself to be throughout his career. I don't know where you're getting that I'm saying he's being less than honest. I'm saying he's doing what he needs to do to help him get a $28mil payday. You're the one inferring the negativity in that statement. Yes I fully understand the Colts have very little reason to pay him the $28 million. I also believe that if that happens, it is not going to change Peyton's desire to return, or ability to return based on his health. The way I read you take, once the $28 million is not paid and he's released he'll admit he really isn't able to play and retire. It's not a matter of "admitting" whether he is able to play or not. He just may flat out not be able to. An NFL team, their doctors, his doctors, their doctors' doctors just may not feel like he's capable of doing it, or if he does there's a chance of further or more significant damage. It's kind of an open question at this point that may or may not have anything to do with his desire or motivation to continue his career. He just may not want to deal with the risks. Teams may not want to deal with the risks. There are a lot of open questions at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I don't know where you're getting that I'm saying he's being less than honest. I'm saying he's doing what he needs to do to help him get a $28mil payday. You're the one inferring the negativity in that statement. It's not a matter of "admitting" whether he is able to play or not. He just may flat out not be able to. An NFL team, their doctors, his doctors, their doctors' doctors just may not feel like he's capable of doing it, or if he does there's a chance of further or more significant damage. It's kind of an open question at this point that may or may not have anything to do with his desire or motivation to continue his career. He just may not want to deal with the risks. Teams may not want to deal with the risks. There are a lot of open questions at this point. So you saying that once the $28 million is off the table that Manning will decide he doesn't really want to play isn't accusing him of being dishonest? Or that isn't what you were saying here "Once he's not due $28 million, let's revisit this conversation to see whether Peyton Manning has a motivation, or the health, to return to the field." You imply he won't be motivated to play after that time passes. Even assuming he only gets a one year offer worth $15 million (salary and bonuses) won't that motivate him (if money is truly motivating him at all). As I said before, going to have to agree to disagree. Either you're not being honest with me, or I'm seriously misinterpreting this specific comment. (because to me it paints Peyton in a negative way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 he should backup Eli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 As I said before, going to have to agree to disagree. Either you're not being honest with me, or I'm seriously misinterpreting this specific comment. (because to me it paints Peyton in a negative way). It says "motivation or health". I don't think there's any implication of dishonesty there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorttynaz Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Just to continue to add to this - the Cardinals recently brought in Frank Reich to be their WR coach. Where did Reich coach the last three years? The Colts. What did he do two of the three years? He was Payton Manning's position coach. Buy into it what you will, I'm convinced if Manning plays anywhere in 2012, it's gonna be for the redbirds in the desert! "Reich's hiring will fuel speculation the Cardinals are interested in Colts quarterback Peyton Manning, who is expected to be released in the next month. Reich was the Colts quarterbacks coach in 2009-10 and coached receivers last season." LINK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 He went to Europe in September for a stem cell treatment for his neck that hasn't been approved by the FDA. that will bring down gods wrath for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Just to continue to add to this - the Cardinals recently brought in Frank Reich to be their WR coach. Where did Reich coach the last three years? The Colts. What did he do two of the three years? He was Payton Manning's position coach. Buy into it what you will, I'm convinced if Manning plays anywhere in 2012, it's gonna be for the redbirds in the desert! "Reich's hiring will fuel speculation the Cardinals are interested in Colts quarterback Peyton Manning, who is expected to be released in the next month. Reich was the Colts quarterbacks coach in 2009-10 and coached receivers last season." LINK Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. I would have thought AZ learned that lesson with Kolb. So the Cards are going to dump Kolb, eat $18M in accelerated signing bonus, and then offer up to Manning a contract that is sure to involve tens of millions of dollars when his playing health is absolutely in doubt? Well, that sounds like an AZ move... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. I would have thought AZ learned that lesson with Kolb. So the Cards are going to dump Kolb, eat $18M in accelerated signing bonus, and then offer up to Manning a contract that is sure to involve tens of millions of dollars when his playing health is absolutely in doubt? Well, that sounds like an AZ move... I'm curious what people think will clearly determine Peyton's playing health? Tests? Practice, drills, etc? Short of actually playing an NFL game, getting hit a few times and not crumbling immediately or having issues with the neck, how will anybody know? I suspect any team that signs him will do their best to make sure he is healthy, or have portions of the contract and salary impacts related to him actually playing. I don't think he'll be signed for $10-20 without them being relatively certain he can play. As far as AZ, I'd love to see them upgrade at QB, as a Fitzgerald owner I thought they were getting that last year before Kolb got knocked around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I'm curious what people think will clearly determine Peyton's playing health? Tests? Practice, drills, etc? Short of actually playing an NFL game, getting hit a few times and not crumbling immediately or having issues with the neck, how will anybody know? I suspect any team that signs him will do their best to make sure he is healthy, or have portions of the contract and salary impacts related to him actually playing. I don't think he'll be signed for $10-20 without them being relatively certain he can play. As far as AZ, I'd love to see them upgrade at QB, as a Fitzgerald owner I thought they were getting that last year before Kolb got knocked around. Obtaining a historically prolific QB well past their prime has not been a recipe for success in the NFL. Teams place way too much faith in their previous standard of play and overlook how far their games have deteriorated with age and the condition of thie bodies after years of NFL play. Montana went to KC; Farve went to the Jets and then MIN; McNabb went to WAS and then MIN; Moon went to MIN, SEA, and KC; Bledsoe went to BUF and DAL; Unitas went to SD. Some of them even put up a great season or two - but they simply were not the franchise players they once were and they left their new teams sadly disappointed and even set them back significantly in some cases. None of those guys had the neck issues Manning has. Now reports are surfacing that in his recent workouts Manning simply does not have anywhere near the same zing on the ball and has trouble turning at times after setting up. I'm not sure why any team thinks that Manning can be different than the other historically great QBs in the same situation, when those others were unhampered by an injury like Manning's. Then again, he'll probably put a lot of butts in seats where ever he goes, and maybe that's not a bad thing for some teams. Edited February 9, 2012 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm curious what people think will clearly determine Peyton's playing health? Tests? Practice, drills, etc? Short of actually playing an NFL game, getting hit a few times and not crumbling immediately or having issues with the neck, how will anybody know? Its simple. Can he throw the ball like an NFL QB needs to throw it? He can demonstrate that in the parking lot. If he can do that, someone will sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. I would have thought AZ learned that lesson with Kolb. So the Cards are going to dump Kolb, eat $18M in accelerated signing bonus, and then offer up to Manning a contract that is sure to involve tens of millions of dollars when his playing health is absolutely in doubt? Well, that sounds like an AZ move... Peyton has reportedly said he would be willing to accept an incentive-laden contract if he becomes a free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorttynaz Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Obtaining a historically prolific QB well past their prime has not been a recipe for success in the NFL. Now reports are surfacing that in his recent workouts Manning simply does not have anywhere near the same zing on the ball and has trouble turning at times after setting up. Uh, what about none other than the Arizona Cardinals signing Kurt Warner to back up Matt Leinart - paying him merely $2M to come here. How'd that turn out? Oh yeah - he reserected the Cardinals.. And if my profession was to throw a ball - and I didn't do that or use those muscles for 6+ months, I don't think after all that time off I could just pick up a ball and start throwing as hard and as accurate just as I did before all that time off. I'm not saying Manning is a lock to play in 2012, personally I want the guy to retire. As a Colts homer I never in a million years would have thought we'd be talking about Peyton Manning playing for a team outside of the Colts. All I'm saying is if he is healthy and can play - he'll be wearing the red Cardinal's jersey. While I don't have an "inside" source, the local guys have a lot of contacts - and it's being reported almost daily on the radio, paper, and local TV news that the Cardinals front office would in fact cut Kolb and take a chance on Manning.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Peyton Manning's arm is a noodle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Uh, what about none other than the Arizona Cardinals signing Kurt Warner to back up Matt Leinart - paying him merely $2M to come here. How'd that turn out? Oh yeah - he reserected the Cardinals.. And his SB ring is really pretty, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorttynaz Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 And his SB ring is really pretty, too. I never said anything about a championship. All I said is it was a successful move. He brought the Cardinals out of the cellar. YOU said "Obtaining a historically prolific QB well past their prime has not been a recipe for success in the NFL". I was just proving you wrong. You've just been served. Good day to you, sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 YOU said "Obtaining a historically prolific QB well past their prime has not been a recipe for success in the NFL". I was just proving you wrong. You've just been served. Good day to you, sir! The list of failures is pretty long. You're going to have to come up with a bit more to prove your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorttynaz Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) The list of failures is pretty long. You're going to have to come up with a bit more to prove your point. You want something from Bronco Billy's platter too? Favre went to the Vikings in 2009. That season he had the highest QB passer rating of his career, 107.5. The only season of his career where his passer rating was over 100. He completed 363 passes which was the 2nd highest for any season of his career. He averaged 263 yards a game - the 3rd highest for any season in his career. He threw 33 touchdowns to only 7 interceptions. That season the Vikings took the NFC Championship game to overtime - fell one play away from reaching the superbowl. Not bad for a QB in his NINETEENTH (yes 19th) year in the league.. You too, have just been served. Now go take a seat next to Bronco Billy and shut your mouth.. Edited February 9, 2012 by Shorttynaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 What's a Shorrtynaz anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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