tazinib1 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Good god I'm getting ill just typing this, but the question has to be asked. He'll have 2 rings and has been a consistent top QB for 7 years. He has at least 5 more years to pad his stats and maybe get another ring? Having defeated Brady, who most consider a lock for the HOF already, does he get a bust in Canton? I'd have to say yes...and that makes me wanna crouch in a shower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Good god I'm getting ill just typing this, but the question has to be asked. He'll have 2 rings and has been a consistent top QB for 7 years. He has at least 5 more years to pad his stats and maybe get another ring? Having defeated Brady, who most consider a lock for the HOF already, does he get a bust in Canton? I'd have to say yes...and that makes me wanna crouch in a shower. uh, you might want to check that part of your post out for accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think he'd definitely be headed in that direction, but I don't think that makes him a lock. In other words, if he were able to continue his current pace for another half-dozen years (give or take one or two), I think it would be pretty difficult to keep him out of the HOF. But, if something were to happen that could potentially shorten his career (injury, etc.), I don't necessarily think he makes it based solely on his body of work so far (whether they win this year or not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I don't think so, or at least I'd like to think that winning a second SB isn't the primary reason he gets in. I'd have to look at his numbers over his career, and compare them to those of his peers (Favre, Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Brees) to see how he stacks up. While I do think he is very good, and on the edge of elite, and very clutch late in some big games, I don't think he is among the top 2-3 at his position during his career. If he gets in, then all of those mentioned above get in (yes most of those 5 are already locks to be in HOF). We may also need to go back and look at other QBs who were good (by maybe not great/elite) but won multiple SBs and had similar careers to see what we should expect for Eli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coordi88 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 if the giants win and eli retires, no he wont go to the hof if the giants win and he plays another 5 season at his current pace, then yea probably a lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I'd have to look at his numbers over his career, and compare them to those of his peers (Favre, Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Brees) to see how he stacks up. While I do think he is very good, and on the edge of elite, and very clutch late in some big games, I don't think he is among the top 2-3 at his position during his career. Earn your Newb of the Year award and do us the research Edited January 25, 2012 by tazinib1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Earn your Newb of the Year award and do us the research Maybe later when I have more time. Research isn't really my speciality though so we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ugh...now this is a topic on Sports Center. Guess we'll have to listen to this for 2 weeks. Sorry...I had no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Why did Archie want Elie to go to the Giants, not San Diego? Because it was a better run franchise where he was more likely to be on a more complete team, and have a better chance for a ring. Why are many now talking about the Giants beating the Pats, despite being the underdog? Again, because the Giants are a more complete team. That's not to take anything away from the amazing season Eli's had to prove that he belongs in that upper-class of QBs, but this whole notion that QBs are simply defined by playoff wins and Superbowl wins is to completely neglect the fact that it's a team game.... So jsut the same as you can't blame Rodgers for their defense getting romped in that playoff loss, you can't just put Eli as a first-ballot HOFer just because he had 1 superbowl season as a game manager with a strong defense, and now again with a supporting cast that Brady and Rodgers wish they had this year. He's finally earned his spot on the fringe of the elite (if not right up there with them) after several 4,000 yard seasons and now almost 5,000, but cmon, lock for the HOF? He's gotta have at least a few more magical seasons for that. Edited January 25, 2012 by delusions of granduer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Why did Archie want Elie to go to the Giants, not San Diego? Because it was a better run franchise where he was more likely to be on a more complete team, and have a better chance for a ring. It runs way deeper than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It runs way deeper than that. Fair enough, but you see the point... I don't think anyone can point to Eli's 3,300 yards and 23/20 TD/INTs, and say that he carried them to the playoffs. I don't remember now how well he performed in the playoffs, but my recollection is he was by and large a game-manager in their Superbowl year. So unless we want to call Marino a bum, then I think just looking at playoff and superbowl wins is extremely short-sighted, when so much more than just the QB matters in making it over the hump or not... Again, not to take anything away from Eli, but had great recievers, and now that the defense is healthy, most assume that it's going to be a team effort and not just Manning outplaying Brady that's going to give them the best chance to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 A second SB MVP would certainly help, plus a few more years of elite numbers. He was pretty mediocre those first few years, so he's going to need to stick around well into his 30's, stay healthy, and stay consistent with the yardage and TDs. Maybe he flirts with the consecutive game streak too, that would be hugh. Right now though, not a lock, not even close, even if he wins the SB this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm too lazy right now to do the research...but how many QB's with 2 SB rings are NOT in the HOF. Just ask'n. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm too lazy right now to do the research...but how many QB's with 2 SB rings are NOT in the HOF. Just ask'n. Plunkett (2), Brady (3), Roethlisberger (2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So unless we want to call Marino a bum, then I think just looking at playoff and superbowl wins is extremely short-sighted, when so much more than just the QB matters in making it over the hump or not... Again, not to take anything away from Eli, but had great recievers, and now that the defense is healthy, most assume that it's going to be a team effort and not just Manning outplaying Brady that's going to give them the best chance to win. See, the thing is are we debating if Eli DESERVES to be in the HoF, or if he will be ELECTED into the HoF? As for deserves, I say no - he's been basically average vs the rest of the league for all but '11 and (I think) '09, when he was an above-average QB. He is a decent enough QB, has lots of good qualities - toughness, durability, leadership, etc - but when you think "who is the best QB in the game RIGHT NOW?" he's probably at best the 4th or 5th name that comes up. Will he be elected? Well, I tend to judge QBs on how they perform in the regular season, and how they perform in the playoffs. Team wins are only a tangential part of that - if you're comparing two similar QBs and one has two SB rings and the other doesn't, yes, it kinda matters. But I think most HoF voters get blinded by the bling...hence guys like Aikman and Griese being revered as "great" QBs when those teams would've been pretty competitive with nearly any reasonably talented QB under center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm too lazy right now to do the research...but how many QB's with 2 SB rings are NOT in the HOF. Just ask'n. Plunkett. Phil Simms. Earl Morrall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Plunkett. Phil Simms. Earl Morrall. Morrall won 1 and lost 1 and Simms only played in 1 SB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby's Hubby Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If Trent Dilfer had just gotten to win one more Super Bowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadDawg Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Before you can assess if Eli is HOF material, you need to know what the typical acheivements were that advanced those Qbs that have currently been voted into the distinguished Hall. Just using ol' "Jimbob" as the closest member to compare Manning to. HOFamer - Jim Kelly Use any of the other "modern day" Qb you want and let me know if you have a different take on Eli's qualifications .... I don't feel he's at the point yet that would compare with any of the inducted Qbs of the last 25 yrs. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 See, the thing is are we debating if Eli DESERVES to be in the HoF, or if he will be ELECTED into the HoF? As for deserves, I say no - he's been basically average vs the rest of the league for all but '11 and (I think) '09, when he was an above-average QB. He is a decent enough QB, has lots of good qualities - toughness, durability, leadership, etc - but when you think "who is the best QB in the game RIGHT NOW?" he's probably at best the 4th or 5th name that comes up. Will he be elected? Well, I tend to judge QBs on how they perform in the regular season, and how they perform in the playoffs. Team wins are only a tangential part of that - if you're comparing two similar QBs and one has two SB rings and the other doesn't, yes, it kinda matters. But I think most HoF voters get blinded by the bling...hence guys like Aikman and Griese being revered as "great" QBs when those teams would've been pretty competitive with nearly any reasonably talented QB under center. The exact question was "If the Giants win, is Eli a lock for the HOF?".... As you've highlighted here, I don't think you can jsut toss the rest of his career to the side and base it on 2 superbowls, the most recent of which he only even had a chance to play in because his defense got healthy.... When the defense was banged up, the Giants almost missed the playoffs... But yes, the fact that it's even a question of whether he's a "lock" does indeed show that people put far too much stock in rings being an individual accomplishment... I'll take career stats first, and then playoff and superbowl wins second when deciding who I think is HOF-worthy... The former means Eli needs a few more statistically dominant seasons to be a HOFer in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUMbotron Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Good god I'm getting ill just typing this, but the question has to be asked. He'll have 2 rings and has been a consistent top QB for 7 years. He has at least 5 more years to pad his stats and maybe get another ring? Having defeated Brady, who most consider a lock for the HOF already, does he get a bust in Canton? I'd have to say yes...and that makes me wanna crouch in a shower. Not a lock just yet, but basically a lock if he notches a few more healthy 4,000/25 years and adds more postseason stats/division crowns. The dude has quietly built his case and has walked the walk. Eli is great. Absolutely great. 2 rings, man that would be huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Not a lock just yet, but basically a lock if he notches a few more healthy 4,000/25 years and adds more postseason stats/division crowns. The dude has quietly built his case and has walked the walk. Eli is great. Absolutely great. 2 rings, man that would be huge. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Man, if only Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams and Brad Johnson could have managed one more Super Bowl, they'd have been locks for the HOF. Really, thats how silly this conversation is at this point in Manning's career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Thank you. Has anyone said any different? I think most have said that he needs to show a few more great years to make up for his mediocrity and inconsistency early in his career.... I think most will agree he's well on his way, but no, a couple rings in themselves do not cement that. Sustainable play at a high level does... Edited January 25, 2012 by delusions of granduer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Morrall won 1 and lost 1 and Simms only played in 1 SB. Simms was a significant part of that Giants SB team - 11-3 as a starter. Morrall was a mistake on my part - I thought he had more to do with the Colts SB V season than he actually did. Besides, the question was "SB rings" not "victories as SB starter"; LOTS of QBs have 2 SB rings - Jim McMahon, Joe Gilliam, Mike Kruczek, Charlie Batch, etc - so if I really wanted to be pedantic I could've given a totally ridiculous list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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