Ryan Mallett? Really?

[Balzac]

That was 100% intentional grounding. The rule is not the receiver ran the wrong route then you can throw it anywhere. The rule is was there a receiver anywhere in the close proximity of the throw. In that case the answer is a HUGE no.

 

Also, MAYBE the Giants D gets some credit for Brady and Rodgers having average games...or do we just say no crdit to the Giants D, those guys just had average days...just saying.

 

And they let the Giants win this game...just stop. There is no doubt the Giants were better than the Pats man for man this season IMO. If that wasn't the case then why did 75% of the experts pick the Giants to win. The Pats beat ONE yes ONE winning team all season, the Ravens in the AFC title game. And they needed a missed 32 yard FG AND a dropped TD pass to get that win AT HOME.

 

Come on dude, be fair a little. Maybe you dislike the Giants (not sure), but at least be fair. Either that or I guess the Giants went through 4 playoff games, 3 away from home, and lucked their way through game after game. Funny stuff.

 

Wow. This one is just rife with misinformation.

 

First off, I love all the "Pats only beat 1 team with a winning record all year" jazz. How many winning teams did the Giants beat this year? Go check it out - you might be surprised with the answer.

 

If the Giants were better than the Pats man for man this season, why was one team 13-3 and the other 9-7? That's a huge difference in records and, as I alluded to above, neither team played a tough schedule. Hell, the Giants lost to the Skins TWICE - and that team is better than the Pats? Please.

 

Needed a missed FG - come on. Missed FGs are a part of the game - 35+ yard FGs in Foxboro are not gimmes. Instead of focusing on that one play, you can go back and look at any number of plays that would've changed the game there as well (e.g., gronk's reception inside the 15 that was inexplicably not challenged when it was clearly a catch - missed points their for NE).

 

Dropped TD pass? Wrong - the ball was knocked out of the guy's hands on an excellent defensive play. Dropping a pass is quite different.

 

Giants beat up GB and ATL, pure and simple. 2 muffed punts against the Niners - that's not luck? They should've lost that game. 12 men on the field against the Pats that entirely changed the outcome of the game? 2 other fumbles that took the right bounces back to the Giants? None of that is luck? Again, come on. Giants won, fair and square - but the Pats beat themselves last night. That's what happens in footbal though.

[stevegrab]

Wow. This one is just rife with misinformation.

 

First off, I love all the "Pats only beat 1 team with a winning record all year" jazz. How many winning teams did the Giants beat this year? Go check it out - you might be surprised with the answer.

 

If the Giants were better than the Pats man for man this season, why was one team 13-3 and the other 9-7? That's a huge difference in records and, as I alluded to above, neither team played a tough schedule. Hell, the Giants lost to the Skins TWICE - and that team is better than the Pats? Please.

 

Needed a missed FG - come on. Missed FGs are a part of the game - 35+ yard FGs in Foxboro are not gimmes. Instead of focusing on that one play, you can go back and look at any number of plays that would've changed the game there as well (e.g., gronk's reception inside the 15 that was inexplicably not challenged when it was clearly a catch - missed points their for NE).

 

Dropped TD pass? Wrong - the ball was knocked out of the guy's hands on an excellent defensive play. Dropping a pass is quite different.

 

Giants beat up GB and ATL, pure and simple. 2 muffed punts against the Niners - that's not luck? They should've lost that game. 12 men on the field against the Pats that entirely changed the outcome of the game? 2 other fumbles that took the right bounces back to the Giants? None of that is luck? Again, come on. Giants won, fair and square - but the Pats beat themselves last night. That's what happens in footbal though.

 

All this back and forth stuff after the games is nonsense. If this would have happened then that. Or if 2-4-6 games ago they lost against so and so they're not even in the playoffs.

 

The Pats were favored by a slim margin, so not considered to be much better. 13-3 vs. 9-7 in regular season means squat once you reach the playoffs. The Pats had their chance to show they were the better team, and came up short. Giants won, Pats lost.

 

Why can't Giants fans just enjoy the victory and SB Title. Ignore all the negative BS about how they got lucky, or were not good enough etc.

And Pats fans, accept you got beat, again, by a team you consider to be inferior. You've been in 5 SB recently, and won 3 times. You've been a perennial contender in the AFC and probably will be a few more years with Brady.

 

Sorry but your post sounds like sour grapes. Pats have something go there way (Evans drop) and its a good play by the Pats. Giants have something go their way (muffed punts) and its all luck.

[giantsfan]

Neither were the Giants

Good point...

 

I'll tell you what they are...SB champs. I'll tell you something else...they beat more than ONE winning team all season unlike the Pats.

 

I don't want to make this into a big back and forth, you and I have always been cool, but come on dude. I respect you are a Cowboys fan and therefore don't like the Ginats, that is cool, but stop with the cold water. Essentially you are making it sound like the Giants aren't that good. Eli is whatever. The Giants simply got hot and were lucky. Just don't understand that.

 

No one is saying the Giants are the best team ever. No one is saying Eli is the best QB ever, or even in the league right now. But they were a good solid team that got hot at the right time, but that's how it works sometimes, like I said above look at GB last season.

 

Give them their props and move on. I know I would be doing that if the Eagles or Cowboys won the SB. Sometimes it is the right thing to do.

Edited February 7, 2012 by giantsfan

[giantsfan]

Give Eli Branch, a 5 ft 6 Welker and 2 tight ends instead of Manningham, Nicks and Cruz and tell me he's a HOFer. To me thats the difference between Tom Brady and Eli Manning

And I said Tom Brady is better.

 

Look, like him or not, and clearly you don't, Eli will be a HOF'er. A Manning with 2 SB titles, 2 SB MVP's, 2 SB wins over Brady. The most playoff away from home playoffs wins EVER by a QB. He will be a HOF'er. Just no doubt after last night.

 

Again, hate the Giants, that is cool, but please try and be fair and objective.

[giantsfan]

Giants beat 5 winning teams (3 on the road and 1 at a neutral site). A LOT more than the 1 NE beat (AT HOME). AND the Giants beat NE twice...once in their building yet somehow they aren't better than NE...COME ON.

 

This is just comical to me. DON'T LIKE THE GIANTS...I respect that 100%, but PLEASE be objective.

 

Stop with this lucky BS and give them their credit. Man it amazes me how many sad fans there are in here.

 

Can't we say nice job well deserved Giants and move on?

 

They must have been the LUCKIEST team EVER according to some. EVERY single break went their way. They had nothing to do with it mind you, it was ALL luck.

 

Just sad in a way. No one is saying best team ever. No one is saying Eli is the best QB ever. No one is saying they didn't get breaks, ALL SB WINNING TEAMS DO. But to dismiss everything is just comical.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Again, hate the Giants, that is cool, but please try and be fair and objective.

I don't hate the Giants at all actually. Hell I even bet NYG. Just can't take much more Eli's this and Eli's that because most that don't have on Blue goggles don't see it.

 

Let's face it, they were 7-7 in week 15. They rolled a lousy Dallas team to get in and when they did they played good football and got some bounces. Good for them. Let's just not get carried away. If they somehow would have lost the Dallas game would Eli be "elite" a HOFer? No. And Coughlin would very possibly be fired by now.

 

Hell if the Pats could have recovered one fumble last night all this HOF nonsense would be over

[Sunday Couch Potatoe]

Giants beat 5 winning teams (3 on the road and 1 at a neutral site). A LOT more than the 1 NE beat (AT HOME). AND the Giants beat NE twice...once in their building yet somehow they aren't better than NE...COME ON.

 

This is just comical to me. DON'T LIKE THE GIANTS...I respect that 100%, but PLEASE be objective.

 

Stop with this lucky BS and give them their credit. Man it amazes me how many sad fans there are in here.

 

Can't we say nice job well deserved Giants and move on?

 

They must have been the LUCKIEST team EVER according to some. EVERY single break went their way. They had nothing to do with it mind you, it was ALL luck.

 

Just sad in a way. No one is saying best team ever. No one is saying Eli is the best QB ever. No one is saying they didn't get breaks, ALL SB WINNING TEAMS DO. But to dismiss everything is just comical.

All that matters is they won the SB at the end of the day. Everything else doesn't matter because the title is theirs and haters will be haters no matter what. Congrats and very well deserved!!

 

Oh and the article in the OP is ridiculous....

Edited February 7, 2012 by Sunday Couch Potatoe

[giantsfan]

I don't hate the Giants at all actually. Hell I even bet NYG. Just can't take much more Eli's this and Eli's that because most that don't have on Blue goggles don't see it.

 

Let's face it, they were 7-7 in week 15. They rolled a lousy Dallas team to get in and when they did they played good football and got some bounces. Good for them. Let's just not get carried away. If they somehow would have lost the Dallas game would Eli be "elite" a HOFer? No. And Coughlin would very possibly be fired by now.Hell if the Pats could have recovered one fumble last night all this HOF nonsense would be over

I agree with that 100%. Coughlin may have been gone if they miss. And no Eli wouldn't have been elite or a HOF'er yet. BUT that didn't happen.

 

They won led by Coughlin/Eli/and the D. So at day's end they have 2 SB's in 5 years AND beat the great B & B tandem in both SB's.

 

That says a lot IMO.

[giantsfan]

All that matters is they won the SB at the end of the day. Everything else doesn't matter because the title is theirs and haters will be haters no matter what. Congrats and very well deserved!!

 

Oh and the article in the OP is ridiculous....

Well said...I agree 100%.

[Sunday Couch Potatoe]

I don't hate the Giants at all actually. Hell I even bet NYG. Just can't take much more Eli's this and Eli's that because most that don't have on Blue goggles don't see it.

 

Let's face it, they were 7-7 in week 15. They rolled a lousy Dallas team to get in and when they did they played good football and got some bounces. Good for them. Let's just not get carried away. If they somehow would have lost the Dallas game would Eli be "elite" a HOFer? No. And Coughlin would very possibly be fired by now.

 

Hell if the Pats could have recovered one fumble last night all this HOF nonsense would be over

But none of that happened and therefore none of that matters only that they are SB champs again and Eli is a HUGE reason they are! So all the Eli this and Eli that everyone is just going to have to deal with as is everytime someone wins the big one they are talked about over and over again. Just goes with the territory.

[whomper]

I actually thought this was an onionesque article when I first read it. This guy let his emotions get in the way of his reporting. Its like me in a Cowboys game thread when they are losing. I am a complaining , annoying bitch, then I calm down the next day. This guy wrote this while his vagina was still sore

[Jackass]

Last paragraph of Bill Simmons article sums it up well

Something DID happen last night. As soon as the Patriots gave up the ball with four minutes to play, I fully expected Eli to drive down the field for a score. That happened partly because of the Patriots' smoke-and-mirrors defense and partly because Eli Manning, at this point in his career, has evolved into the best clutch quarterback in football. We've just seen him do it too many times. The game came down to two plays, basically: Brady slightly missing that Welker pass; Manning not missing anything on that Manningham pass. Eli was slightly better. The right team won. This kills me.

 

whole article for those who want to read it

 

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/754718...gs-indianapolis

[HowboutthemCowboys]

All that matters is they won the SB at the end of the day. Everything else doesn't matter because the title is theirs and haters will be haters no matter what. Congrats and very well deserved!!

 

Oh and the article in the OP is ridiculous....

FWIW, just because someone thinks the HOF talk is premature does'nt mean they're a hater.

[BadDawg]

It's not that difficult to evaluate the differences in the two teams when you apply the critical strengths required to excel in becoming the SB Champion.

 

If you have a pressuring Def ... which the Giants have ... and couple it with a power running game ... which the Giants have ... you are SB material.

 

If you don't have either of these critical stengths ... which the Patriots do not ... your going to struggle to "FINISH" the game ... Pats couldn't finish NYG in the 4th Q when they needed to.

 

Game Set Match

 

.

[Ursa Majoris]

And I said Tom Brady is better.

 

Look, like him or not, and clearly you don't, Eli will be a HOF'er. A Manning with 2 SB titles, 2 SB MVP's, 2 SB wins over Brady. The most playoff away from home playoffs wins EVER by a QB. He will be a HOF'er. Just no doubt after last night.

 

Again, hate the Giants, that is cool, but please try and be fair and objective.

Eli has only ever beaten one QB in Superbowls.

[Balzac]

All this back and forth stuff after the games is nonsense. If this would have happened then that. Or if 2-4-6 games ago they lost against so and so they're not even in the playoffs.

 

that was my point with the missed FG

 

The Pats were favored by a slim margin, so not considered to be much better. 13-3 vs. 9-7 in regular season means squat once you reach the playoffs. The Pats had their chance to show they were the better team, and came up short. Giants won, Pats lost.

 

I don't recall anyone denying any of this. Please recall that my post was in response to someone saying Giants were a better team this season.

 

Sorry but your post sounds like sour grapes. Pats have something go there way (Evans drop) and its a good play by the Pats. Giants have something go their way (muffed punts) and its all luck.

 

I respond to a post degrading the Pats and it's sour grapes? OK. And again - that wasn't a "drop" in the endzone by Evans. A Pats player proactively knocked the ball out of his hands. Muffed punt = dude simply didn't catch the ball. Giants didn't do anything to cause that - he just f'd up, pure and simple.

[Balzac]

Giants beat 5 winning teams (3 on the road and 1 at a neutral site). A LOT more than the 1 NE beat (AT HOME). AND the Giants beat NE twice...once in their building yet somehow they aren't better than NE...COME ON.

 

You seem to be counting the playoffs for the Giants, but not for the Pats. Why is that? Strange. In any event, I was referring to the regular season - both teams beat 1 whole winning team. In the playoffs, both teams beat who was put in front of them until the last game.

[Bring Back Pat!!!]

The article is a joke. Not literally, but it might as well be. About as relevant as what a player's wife has to say 3 minutes after a game ends.

 

The Pats did not deserve to win that game. I cannot stress that enough. But the fact that IF Welker makes that catch (which I've seen him make this season) then they would have. I don't know what that means. Did that smoke and mirrors D almost pull out a win? Nope. Did the Giants play bad? Nope. It was a strange game that the Patriots almost won, and really had no right winning.

 

The offensive play calling was atrocious. Due to Bill leaving for Penn St? I hope not, but I also don't believe in coincidences Going into the game I was hoping to see 4 wides with Woodhead in the backfield. . The best way for the Patriots to counter the Giants pass rush is with delays and draws and screens from shotgun, no huddle. Keep that D on the field and wear them out while making them rush the passer over and over, and then turn and chase a RB.

 

On the last drive of the 1st half they did this and Woodhead accounted for 34 yards. They did it again on the first drive of the second half although more with BGE then DW. But it was shotgun no-huddle and it worked.... And then they played the rest of the second half, trying to run from 2 TE sets and other awful play calls. It was very un-Patriot offense, in the sense that they usually continue running the same thing over and over until the other team stops them. This didn't happen.

 

Poor coaching. Poor game-planning. Poor play calling. Whatever you call it, it wasn't good enough to win the game, and didn't deserve to.

 

As for Eli. Not yet. Will he be a HoF'er? Probably. He plays in NY so naturally his accomplishments are vastly over rated. He gets all the credit for throwing 4th quarter TDs. Why did he need to? Because he played worse in the first 3 quarters. Same goes for that non-QB out in Denver. Give me a QB who actually does his job all 4 quarters of a game. But all that being said, sure he'll get in. He's a manning and he plays in NY.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Bring Back Pat!!!

[giantsfan]

I don't recall anyone denying any of this. Please recall that my post was in response to someone saying Giants were a better team this season.

 

 

 

I respond to a post degrading the Pats and it's sour grapes? OK. And again - that wasn't a "drop" in the endzone by Evans. A Pats player proactively knocked the ball out of his hands. Muffed punt = dude simply didn't catch the ball. Giants didn't do anything to cause that - he just f'd up, pure and simple.

Here is where you go wrong IMO.

 

1. THE GIANTS WERE A BETTER TEAM THAN THE PATS THIS SEASON. Not sure how much more proof you need. We played twice, once IN NE, and we beat you twice. SORRY but that means we were the better team. Now the Giants lost twice to the Redskins, so that doesn't always hold true when you play some random regular season game. But when two very good teams play twice, once in the biggest game of all, and the same team wins both...THEY ARE THE BETTER TEAM. Pretty sure most experts would say the Giants are the better team. Heck, most people picked the Giants to win before the SB let alone after they beat the Pats again.

 

2. A good WR catches that pass Evans dropped. Now of course it was a nice play on D to get his hand in there and not give up, but again Keyshawn, Cris Carter, and so on down the list all said a good WR catches that pass. That is just a fact dude.

 

3. Funny how the Giants were SO lucky to be where they are. All the luck in the world. Nothing to do with them, just luck. BUT when Evans drops a pass he clearly should have caught, and when Cundiff misses a short FG, that is not luck. That is just great Pats play. Comical now.

Edited February 7, 2012 by giantsfan

[giantsfan]

You seem to be counting the playoffs for the Giants, but not for the Pats. Why is that? Strange. In any event, I was referring to the regular season - both teams beat 1 whole winning team. In the playoffs, both teams beat who was put in front of them until the last game.

No disrespect, but now I am starting to wonder if you know what you are talking about.

 

Let me say this slowly so you can follow it.

 

IN THE REGULAR SEASON THE PATS BEAT 0, ZERO, NADA, NONE, ZIP, ZILCH, NO WINNING TEAMS. NOT ONE. THE ONLY WINNING TEAM THE PATS BEAT ALL SEASON WAS IN THE AFC TITLE GAME...THE RAVENS.

 

In the regular season the Giants beat 1 winning team...YOUR PATRIOTS IN THEIR BUILDING.

 

But, and here is where you really miss the point, who cares about the regular season. Including playoffs we beat 5 winning teams, you beat 1 winning team. We also beat your team AGAIN.

 

The Giants were better than the Pats. It is okay if you say it dude.

Edited February 7, 2012 by giantsfan

[giantsfan]

The article is a joke. Not literally, but it might as well be. About as relevant as what a player's wife has to say 3 minutes after a game ends.

 

The Pats did not deserve to win that game. I cannot stress that enough. But the fact that IF Welker makes that catch (which I've seen him make this season) then they would have. I don't know what that means. Did that smoke and mirrors D almost pull out a win? Nope. Did the Giants play bad? Nope. It was a strange game that the Patriots almost won, and really had no right winning.

 

The offensive play calling was atrocious. Due to Bill leaving for Penn St? I hope not, but I also don't believe in coincidences Going into the game I was hoping to see 4 wides with Woodhead in the backfield. . The best way for the Patriots to counter the Giants pass rush is with delays and draws and screens from shotgun, no huddle. Keep that D on the field and wear them out while making them rush the passer over and over, and then turn and chase a RB.

 

On the last drive of the 1st half they did this and Woodhead accounted for 34 yards. They did it again on the first drive of the second half although more with BGE then DW. But it was shotgun no-huddle and it worked.... And then they played the rest of the second half, trying to run from 2 TE sets and other awful play calls. It was very un-Patriot offense, in the sense that they usually continue running the same thing over and over until the other team stops them. This didn't happen.

 

Poor coaching. Poor game-planning. Poor play calling. Whatever you call it, it wasn't good enough to win the game, and didn't deserve to.

 

As for Eli. Not yet. Will he be a HoF'er? Probably. He plays in NY so naturally his accomplishments are vastly over rated. He gets all the credit for throwing 4th quarter TDs. Why did he need to? Because he played worse in the first 3 quarters. Same goes for that non-QB out in Denver. Give me a QB who actually does his job all 4 quarters of a game. But all that being said, sure he'll get in. He's a manning and he plays in NY.

This is well written IMO. To me this was a game that could have gone either way, and we came out on top. That is all. The Pats could have won for sure. We could have won for sure. It was a close game that could have gone either way. That is all.

 

And I agree on Eli. Like it or not, a Manning, who plays in NY, has won 2 SB's, has won 2 SB MVP's, and has beaten Brady twice in the SB will be a HOF'er. Some of the points you make on his play are valid, not this year really but throughout his career up until this season, but due to his clutch play, his last name, his playing in NY, his beating Brady twice in the SB, his winning 2 SB MVP's, the fact that he is not done playing yet...he will get in IMO.

 

And BTW...if someone simply says I don't think Eli is a HOF'er yet and doesn't rip him, and doesn't knock the Giants and say they weren't that good, or say they got lucky, that is all good. People can disagree. If someone says in their opinion Eli is not a HOF'er today, I respect that. No one knows for sure. What gets me going is the knocking of the Giants. Or saying they were lucky. Or saying they were 9-7 (not sure why that matters) therefore they are not good. Or saying Eli is not that good. That is just not objective IMO. Saying simply Eli has played well and was a huge key in winning the SB this season, but I don't think he is a HOF'er yet, is totally fair and inbounds.

Edited February 7, 2012 by giantsfan

[Luger]

HOF?

 

I dont know, but as a Giants fan I can say Eli is the best giants QB i have seen play (going back to SImms, can't comment on YA etc).

 

2 SB, 2 SBMVP and i like thier chances moving forward.

 

I think BRady played pretty well, but the giants have more talent beyond the qb. Thats clear.

[Balzac]

No disrespect, but now I am starting to wonder if you know what you are talking about.

 

Let me say this slowly so you can follow it.

 

IN THE REGULAR SEASON THE PATS BEAT 0, ZERO, NADA, NONE, ZIP, ZILCH, NO WINNING TEAMS. NOT ONE. THE ONLY WINNING TEAM THE PATS BEAT ALL SEASON WAS IN THE AFC TITLE GAME...THE RAVENS.

 

In the regular season the Giants beat 1 winning team...YOUR PATRIOTS IN THEIR BUILDING.

 

But, and here is where you really miss the point, who cares about the regular season. Including playoffs we beat 5 winning teams, you beat 1 winning team. We also beat your team AGAIN.

 

The Giants were better than the Pats. It is okay if you say it dude.

 

My bad - I thought Denver ended up 9-7 for some reason.

 

I'm not missing the point - I just don't agree with "There is no doubt the Giants were better than the Pats man for man this season". You said "this season", right? Not "this postseason", which would be an entirely different argument. If you want to completely discount the regular season and focus only on the postseason when you're talking about "this season", great - that's your choice. I don't have to agree with it though. I think the Pats were the better team in 2011-12, altogether, but they shot themselves in both feet and lost in the SB. It happens.

[Balzac]

Here is where you go wrong IMO.

 

1. THE GIANTS WERE A BETTER TEAM THAN THE PATS THIS SEASON. Not sure how much more proof you need. We played twice, once IN NE, and we beat you twice. SORRY but that means we were the better team. Now the Giants lost twice to the Redskins, so that doesn't always hold true when you play some random regular season game. But when two very good teams play twice, once in the biggest game of all, and the same team wins both...THEY ARE THE BETTER TEAM. Pretty sure most experts would say the Giants are the better team. Heck, most people picked the Giants to win before the SB let alone after they beat the Pats again.

 

Is it ok if I diagree with this or are you going to go ALL CAPS ON ME AGAIN??? IMO, Pats outplayed the Giants on Sunday in almost every way - they just made 2-3 really bad mistakes that ended it for them. That game was over in the 4th had Brady thrown a clean ball to Welker. Over. Pats beat themselves. I don't take credit away from the Giants (because they capitalized on the other team's mistakes - that's what great teams do) - they had a great run and won the big game, but the Pats' inexcusable flubs were more to blame than anything the Giants did.

 

2. A good WR catches that pass Evans dropped. Now of course it was a nice play on D to get his hand in there and not give up, but again Keyshawn, Cris Carter, and so on down the list all said a good WR catches that pass. That is just a fact dude.

 

Not quite following the logic here. So Lee Evans isn't a good WR - is that what you're saying? It's "luck" that the potentially game-winning TD was thrown to a bad WR, who had it knocked out of his hands? The simple point was that the Pats actually made a play there - please differentiate that from a punt returner simply dropping a ball or, perhaps even more on point, the Brady/Welker drop on Sunday . . . talk about luck?

 

3. Funny how the Giants were SO lucky to be where they are. All the luck in the world. Nothing to do with them, just luck. BUT when Evans drops a pass he clearly should have caught, and when Cundiff misses a short FG, that is not luck. That is just great Pats play. Comical now.

 

Who said it had nothing to do with them? All teams rely on luck to an extent - the great teams have a knack for capitalizing on their good fortune when they see it. That's how/why the better teams ends up losing at times.

 

I never said that the missed FG wasn't luck - big part of it was luck. My point was that the exercise of going into a game and pointing at one play as luck makes no sense because there's always going to be another play you can point to where luck swung the other way. When we're talking about multiple things strangely going wrong (or right)for a team (e.g., two muffed punts; 3-4 uncontested dropped passes, 3 fumbles but not losing a single one, etc.), to me, that's a different story.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

What gets me going is the knocking of the Giants. Or saying they were lucky. Or saying they were 9-7 (not sure why that matters) therefore they are not good.

 

Does the fact that they're the only Super Bowl winning team in history to give up more than they scored on the season mean anything to you?