delusions of grandeur Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Being a Washington fan I feel if they give up that much for RG3 they are stupid. If the scenerio with Manning falls through then trade down and take Tanehill. I feel Manning is closer to signing with the Skins then most people think. Skins are under the cap by a mile which means they can bring in Wayne with Manning. Bring in Saturday as well because he might be 37 but he is better then what we have. You can still try to lure Colston away from the Saints as well. Not to mention they still have the 6th pick in the draft. Just my opinion. Oops, was mistaken thinknig Washington picked jsut outside of the top 10, and not 6th . Still think Cleveland has more leverage, with being able to guarantee Blackmon or Khalil at 1.04. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyce Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Cleveland will get RG3 and St Louis could take Blackmon at number 4 pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 reports are the Rams have already received a "feeler" trade from "a team you wouldn't expect". Some are saying its the Broncos...I find that very hard to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 reports are the Rams have already received a "feeler" trade from "a team you wouldn't expect". Some are saying its the Broncos...I find that very hard to believe. what the hell would the broncos offer? tim tebow and 25? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 what the hell would the broncos offer? tim tebow and 25? exactly my thoughts as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I completely understand your point of view, and I didn't mean "can't-miss" as much as I think he's far less likely than even most #1 QBs taken msot years to be a bust. His accuracy has apparently been impressive, and really every thing about him at the combine with his size and speed (he measured 6'2 3/8, whiched eased the concrens of some who thought he may be more like 6'1 and too short). I'd be surprised if the people in the know still put him at 50/50, which I'd say is more in line with the #1QB taken most years, where there are some more valid concerns. If Luck weren't such a student of the game, I'd say his potential to be a bust could actually be higher. I'm just not sure how you think you're going to be better off with McCoy, when you say that you're not close to competing. You pointed to the QB carossel, but is Colt that much better to really put up points, even with a strong cast around him? Further, I'm not even sure that I buy the idea that it'd take any less time to build a team that can make the playoffs around Colt, let alone be able to lead you on a Superbowl run. You'd have Griffin for at least the next 5 years, probably even longer, and like I said, I think the 3rd dimension he can bring to an offense makes him dangerous, when he doesn't have to run but can throw a good accurate ball too. (ETA: oh, and did anyone catch him on with Mooch last night? Check it out. He seems to have a good understanding of the game.) I just don't think McCoy is as a big a bust as some do, nor do I believe that RG3 is as "can't miss" as people claim. I read something earlier today (forget if it was a comment here or a story elsewhere about RG3) where the person said something lik e"With Seatlle, Cleveland and Washington all built to win now, they're the most likely landing place for RG3). I almost laughed, how are any of those 3 teams built to "win now"? They all have serious holes and were not very good last year. I also recall another highly ranked QB drafted by the Browns, Tim Couch, who had some promise. But after years of getting beaten to death he was washed up. With that experience I keep trying to look at how a player can perform at times, not just the overall results and their play. I saw good things from McCoy over the last 2 years. And without a lot of time for coaches to work with him. I don't think he's as good as RG3, but I still think the Browns are better off not using a whole bunch of draft picks to move up 2 slots to get RG3. Its mortgaging the future in the hope that RG3 can make them competitve. I've enjoyed the discussion. I'm sure part of my view is because I don't like taking the risk, and I see more risk than others do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I've enjoyed the discussion. I'm sure part of my view is because I don't like taking the risk, and I see more risk than others do. Well, you'd like to think the Browns are taking the same cautious attitude, and not getting caught up in a fanboy mancrush like I'm developing (but just don't let your cynicism as a Browns fan keep you from seeing the light at the end of the tunnel if they do find it worth taking him. I've been there and thought both Matt Ryan and Cam Newton were the wrong picks at their spots, and you'd be surprised how wrong you can be). I hear ya though, that it might not be a luxury they have to make, but I don't see this rumor dying any time soon either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 thats the longest paraphrase in the history of the huggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 thats the longest paraphrase in the history of the huggle. Is that a group hug? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Is that a group hug? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 If Ceveland has recieved anywhere near the reported offer they should jump on it right now before Washington comes to its senses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 If Ceveland has recieved anywhere near the reported offer they should jump on it right now before Washington comes to its senses. Saint Louis. But yes, yes they should, but this will all depend on how married they are to Blackmon. If they don't have a strong preference for one of them, or are maybe looking to trade down again (Cin to come up for Richardson?) then this trade should be a done deal. If I were the Rams I would settle for w/e the Browns were offering and stay at 4 to take Blackmon with Kalil as the unlikely consolation prize - either way they get a special player at a huge area of need and pick up something in the process. Hell two years ago there's not a chance in hell they are trading down and are "stuck" with Blackmon - now they have a chance to get him plus pick(s). It's much easier to play chicken when you have the pick that will be a franchise QB than it is when you need one. My guess is that Cleveland offers #33 and maybe a 4th rounder and STL accepts that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) My guess is that Cleveland offers #33 and maybe a 4th rounder and STL accepts that. For 1.02? Not a snowball's chance in Hell, and even if they did the NFL would overturn the trade as being too unbalanced for its traded picks vaulation table. I assume you meant that the 1.02 would be included with the 2.02 and a 4th rounder, and I don't think that will be market price with RGIII/Luck sitting at 1.02 Edited February 29, 2012 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 For 1.02? Not a snowball's chance in Hell, and even if they did the NFL would overturn the trade as being too unbalanced for its traded picks vaulation table. I think he means on top of St. Louis moving back to the 1.04, and then getting the (#22 actually), and maybe a 4th round throw-in since they probably have other competitors to beat.... As far as what I've heard, the #22 is acutally right in line with the valuation table to move up two spots (actually, if it weren't to move up to 1.02 for a franchise QB, you could easily say 2 first-rounders is too much). Or are you saying that Cleveland would be paying too much to move up two spots? Perhpas with the needs they have to fill, but I don't think so value-wise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 While the Rams might command a ransom (knowing what the prize is), especially now that the new rookie wage scale is in place and there may be many more buyers since the cost to sign the #2 pick won't break the bank....the price for moving up to a top-8 pick in recent years is varied. From the Bleacher Report: In 2011, the biggest deal was the monster trade-up by Atlanta when they moved up from pick No. 27 to pick No. 6 in order to select WR Julio Jones. Here's what the Falcons gave up: their first-round pick (No. 27), second-round pick (No. 59), fourth-round pick (No. 124), and a first- and fourth-round pick in this year's draft (2012). In 2009, the New York Jets traded up from pick No. 17 to pick No. 5 (Cleveland) to select QB Mark Sanchez. The Jets gave up their first- and second-round pick along with three players: DE Kenyon Coleman, DB Abram Elam and QB Brett Ratliff. In 2008, Jacksonville traded with Baltimore to move up from pick No. 26 to pick No. 8. The Jaguars gave up their first-round pick along with two third-rounders and one fourth-rounder. Going back as far as 2003, the Jets traded up from pick No. 13 to pick No. 4 and gave up two first-rounders (pick Nos. 13 and 22) and a conditional fourth- or fifth-round pick in the next year's draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13ers Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I'll never understand why any team would want to mortgage 2 1's, a 2 and a 3 for an unproven player. How many times has a similar situation like this ever paid off? I love the kid from ATL, but is he going to win the championship for them? Did Ricky Williams win a championship for NO? Perhaps you can throw Eli Manning as a success, but NY didn't have to give up half a draft for him. I suppose teams would rather roll the dice with a 'hot prospect' and use him for marketing purposes than sign a Matt Flynn for $50m. I know Flynn isn't going to sell a lot of tickets initially, but if he gets in the right situation, he will sell tickets eventually. Personally, I hope he goes to Miami. Nice upside there. I see most people comparing him to Kolb, or Kolb's situation last year, but I think that's a much different situation. I realize Flynn's only played against a weak secondary of NE and DET, but if you watched him in pre-season games, he was outstanding (again, not the best competition, but if you ever saw TJ Rubley play, bleeechhh!). He played for a national champion in college and learned behind one of the best QB's in the NFL. He reminds me a lot of Matt Hasselbeck. He turned out to be pretty good. I hope Flynn gets a nice chance to show his skill set off. Seattle, AZ or Miami look ideal. Cleveland, maybe in a couple years, will shine, with that young team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 For 1.02? Not a snowball's chance in Hell, and even if they did the NFL would overturn the trade as being too unbalanced for its traded picks vaulation table. I assume you meant that the 1.02 would be included with the 2.02 and a 4th rounder, and I don't think that will be market price with RGIII/Luck sitting at 1.02 While the type of deal you were commenting on would NEVER happen, this is not the NBA with a team being controlled by the league. The league would not interfere based on stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I hope Flynn gets a nice chance to show his skill set off. Seattle, AZ or Miami look ideal. Cleveland, maybe in a couple years, will shine, with that young team. Haven't really thought about it but Flynn could do well in Cleveland's system. I could see that happening. Flynn looks very comfortable in a West Coast system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) I think he means on top of St. Louis moving back to the 1.04, and then getting the (#22 actually), and maybe a 4th round throw-in since they probably have other competitors to beat.... As far as what I've heard, the #22 is acutally right in line with the valuation table to move up two spots (actually, if it weren't to move up to 1.02 for a franchise QB, you could easily say 2 first-rounders is too much). Or are you saying that Cleveland would be paying too much to move up two spots? Perhpas with the needs they have to fill, but I don't think so value-wise... For 1.02? Not a snowball's chance in Hell, and even if they did the NFL would overturn the trade as being too unbalanced for its traded picks vaulation table. I assume you meant that the 1.02 would be included with the 2.02 and a 4th rounder, and I don't think that will be market price with RGIII/Luck sitting at 1.02 yep, #33 was a typo as #22. I thought it went without saying it would be a moveup from 4. So 1.04, 1.22 and 4.whatever for 1.02. It's a slight overpay to "the chart" value but Cleveland won't risk losing a shot at him. http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=2410670 And since when is the NFL a bullAthena commish veto trade league? Did they replace Goodell with JumboTron when I wasn't looking??? Edited February 29, 2012 by flemingd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I do not find past trades to move into slots to obtain Q.B.'s instructive. In the past probably only 1/4 of the league had good or franchise Q.B.s. Teams were starved for them and they were a rarity. Often trades reflected that half a dozen or more teams were interested in, and competing for one guy. Currently I would say better than half the league, and really closer to 3/4's of the league has Q.B.'s they are very comfortable with. The old rules, the old results from extreme competition for rare commodities no longer exists in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) I do not find past trades to move into slots to obtain Q.B.'s instructive. In the past probably only 1/4 of the league had good or franchise Q.B.s. Teams were starved for them and they were a rarity. Often trades reflected that half a dozen or more teams were interested in, and competing for one guy. Currently I would say better than half the league, and really closer to 3/4's of the league has Q.B.'s they are very comfortable with. The old rules, the old results from extreme competition for rare commodities no longer exists in my mind. I disagree. For one thing, with more teams retaining their good QBs in a more pass-friendly league, then the available supply is greatly diminished in a year like this, while the need to have a franchise QB increases to balance out demand, IMO... Teams like the Niners are now the exception, not the rule, and even they are probably going to be looking at an upgrade at QB too. Then you add in the rookie-wage-scale that allows you to potentially get one with only the risk of a pick, and not big money like proven vets... That too has provided much incentive to move up and nab one of the up-and-comers for cheap on the pocketbook, especially when the only good alternatives are Flynn and Johnson (no telling with Manning), two QBs that are barely any more battle-tested, and certainly don't appear to come in with such potential to be the next "Peyton Manning" and (better than) "Mike Vick". I guess if you thought Tannehill and the other rookie QBs were comparable in risk and payout then it might be better to wait, but I've not gotten any indication that any other available QBs, rookie or vet is thought to have the potential of Luck and Griffin, hence why they have much value at a low price for enough potential suitors to make them valuable. Edited March 1, 2012 by delusions of granduer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) For 1.02? Not a snowball's chance in Hell, and even if they did the NFL would overturn the trade as being too unbalanced for its traded picks vaulation table. I assume you meant that the 1.02 would be included with the 2.02 and a 4th rounder, and I don't think that will be market price with RGIII/Luck sitting at 1.02 Wait, so now Luck isn't even the undisputed #1 pick, and RG3 might go 1 leaving Luck available at the Rams 2.02 pick. Wow the hype train for RG3 really is building steam. The 13ers made a good point in his post, the marketing angle. Drafting a player like RG3 means putting more fans in the seats. But I don't see that being a concern for Cleveland who has a large number of season ticket holders, very good attendance (especially given the product) and hasn't really had a serious threat of a blackout in years. If they give up a lot for RG3 it better be because they believe he is the real deal and can improve the team now without adding lots of other pieces. (I'll be skeptical but trust in the team management. If it doesn't work out, things will blow up again in a few years and we'll start over with new president, GM, coach, etc.) Edited March 1, 2012 by stevegrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Luck will not go 1.2 Ever.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Luck will not go 1.2 Ever.... I'd agree but BBs post doesn't " I don't think that will be market price with RGIII/Luck sitting at 1.02" That is why I asked. I'm not as into the stuff as many here, so I'm not sure what to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 McCoy - RB? - Little, Blackmon vs. RG3 - RB? - Little, Massaqui (or whoever). Never got these comparisons. That only makes sense if this year was the only one they had to worry about. But do you want McCoy, Blackmon etc or Griffin and whoever knowing that you can more likely pick up a stud WR either via FA or in another draft vs a stud QB? Basically Griffin gives your team more overall upside, at least on paper. If you're leery about Griffin not living up to the hype, that's something else. PS and I like McCoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.